VOW Flagship: Moxley on Talk is Jericho & AEW Double or Nothing

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BoxingRobes
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Re: VOW Flagship: Moxley on Talk is Jericho & AEW Double or Nothing

Post by BoxingRobes » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:44 pm

Lanza.

To add to the Thursday TV reviews.

Watch Firefly Fun House.

Provide Takes.

Make it good.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Moxley on Talk is Jericho & AEW Double or Nothing

Post by mlev76 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:58 pm

SuperplexlariatBW wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:44 pm
mlev76 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:35 pm
Had Moxley stuck with the Jericho podcast and not done the subsequent few other podcasts he's done this week, I would say (and did say elsewhere) that he did a masterful job of getting his feelings out there, selling himself to an audience yearning to hear what he said and wisely not shitting in the wind over everyone in WWE. The more we hear from him, the less inclined I am to feel that way and the more it's starting to come across as grievance repetitiveness. In the end, I hope he's cleansed his soul and now produces some great stuff for AEW, NJPW and wherever else he works.

I wonder what the impact this and the other grievances will have on WWE and if even a solid showing from AEW come fall will hasten a wake up call. The last time Vince had to shift his thinking, he had just turned 50 and was fighting for his company's financial future. That is no longer an issue. WWE will succeed financially for the foreseeable future absent a massive scandal/problem. He's also on the wrong side of 70 and folks at that age are almost uniformly not capable of change. So I tend to see the only hope for a widespread creative change is a network basically telling them they need to change or (and I don't think this is as unimaginable as many would) they get bought out by a bigger conglomerate and the powers that be choose to install someone other than Vince in as head honcho.

Vince right now is very much like the lead character in the HBO show Succession. In all the wrong ways.
I don't doubt Moxley had complaints about how his dealings woth the WWE system, but i also think the more he does interviews the more it comes off like this is apart AEW's TNAesque marketiing strategy. Jericho ans Dustin continuing to blab about things makes me think this even more.

I also don't doubt that there are a number of unhappy WWE talents, but I also think hardocorecfans and cetain wrestling media members are overplaying things to some extent. Like I think it sounds ludicrous that only ten or less wrestlers will stay with WWE.

We always hear people push the negatives, but nothing positive like if anybody re-signs witn WWE.

Like weren't people pushing two months ago that the Usos were going to leave?

Why no talk about claims Jim Ross made regarding a lower carder who's in his early 30's and barely on TV renewing for a 500K deal? Why no effort to reveal ths person's identity?

What about Finn Balor? I heard somebody say that Jason Powell reported in last week that Balor recently signed a new contract.

I would also like for more analysis on what negatives AEW signing a bunch of WWE names could bring. Like how would the current AEW roster feel about a dozen or so WWE names coming in over a short period of time, which is what everybody seems to want. This is the type of shit that caused problems in WCW and TNA long term. Wrestlers will lose their spots. Plus, the Pac situstion is an early indication that wrestlers having too much freedom may not always be a good idea and that people from the WWE system have a mind for politicking.
I think there's a lot of truth about what you're saying. And it should be noted that in the pre-Mania months, these complaints were either muted or missing. They were almost immediately amplified post Mania and quite honestly, the product is not much better or worse outside of not being booked to their marquee event.

There are certainly stakes in it for wrestling media for AEW to succeed and I know many believe that even the whiff of competition will make WWE perform better or at least be more focussed. I also agree that we are only hearing the negative voices and they are certainly being amplified by the AEW talent. Joe and Rich even acknowledged that there's no need to hide the fact that AEW is going at WWE because even if they don't want to, their core fan base wants it. This has to be a balancing act obviously and TNA is a perfect example of how not to do this. I have yet to watch DON, so I can't speak to how well AEW did, but I do hope they play it smarter.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Moxley on Talk is Jericho & AEW Double or Nothing

Post by mlev76 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:10 pm

BoxingRobes wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:44 pm
Lanza.

To add to the Thursday TV reviews.

Watch Firefly Fun House.

Provide Takes.

Make it good.
Last night's was really the best and if you're not planning on watching the Saudi show, really the only thing you need to see on the show.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Moxley on Talk is Jericho & AEW Double or Nothing

Post by BoxingRobes » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:22 pm

mlev76 wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:10 pm
BoxingRobes wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:44 pm
Lanza.

To add to the Thursday TV reviews.

Watch Firefly Fun House.

Provide Takes.

Make it good.
Last night's was really the best and if you're not planning on watching the Saudi show, really the only thing you need to see on the show.
Havent watched RAW or Smackdown in a few weeks, but Firefly Fun House, when no one is around to see what I am watching, gets a Youtube view from me.

Now, all I think about is Vince in the back going THATS GOOD SHIT and it makes for such a ridiculous watch.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Moxley on Talk is Jericho & AEW Double or Nothing

Post by mlev76 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:02 pm

BoxingRobes wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:22 pm
mlev76 wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:10 pm
BoxingRobes wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:44 pm
Lanza.

To add to the Thursday TV reviews.

Watch Firefly Fun House.

Provide Takes.

Make it good.
Last night's was really the best and if you're not planning on watching the Saudi show, really the only thing you need to see on the show.
Havent watched RAW or Smackdown in a few weeks, but Firefly Fun House, when no one is around to see what I am watching, gets a Youtube view from me.

Now, all I think about is Vince in the back going THATS GOOD SHIT and it makes for such a ridiculous watch.
Devil Vince had me cackling so loud I nearly woke my kids.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Moxley on Talk is Jericho & AEW Double or Nothing

Post by suplexberry » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:20 am

I was Rich Kraetsching in late May / early June (visiting the US, actually! it was great!) so while I listened to this show I didn't want to post a comment on my phone.

Now that I'm back and jetlagged, I got nothing but time to ramble.

This Moxley podcast was monumental, and while people may gripe about the less explosive, less interesting interviews he gave since (Wade Keller is truly an awful interviewer, dear lord), I think beyond the fandom inside jokes ("this is such good shit!") it just really gave us an important inside look into how the way of doing things in that company is broken. People have defended the "system" by saying some guys get to work on their own promos and whatnot, but what wrestling used to be and what Moxley wants to do is provide the improvisational quality, the bullet point format, the old school "I'm fighting you at Venue in Town, at Date" type lines even. If some promos die a slow death in this format, so be it. At least it will be authentic.

Also, I don't think many people understood how frustrating and how draining something like getting a promo changed can be until Moxley laid it out. The podcast described it perfectly. His mental energy was not going towards creativity, thinking about the match, the angle, talking with his opponent about how they wanted the match to go, but running around with writers to get stuff okay'ed by Vince, only to have it be re-written an hour before the show, or for the answer to be, "no, say the line" or "spray the mustard". It'd be like, if at my job, my boss wrote all of my emails and instead of communicating with clients or co-workers I'd be spending 40% of my time trying to get my boss to change a wording to something more polite/more professional or more accurate. As opposed to my boss telling me, "hey can you send an email to Company X and ask for a quote for Product and Installation? Thanks" and allowing me to phrase the email and send it off myself.

This is not rocket science.

I'm sure a lot of people are completely happy drawing a nice paycheck from WWE, but the conundrum with most "passion" driven jobs is familiar. If your creative drive, your individual creative satisfaction is closely tied to the love for your job, then you will be very dissatisfied by a broken system, or a bad work environment. Sasha, Luke Harper, The Revival, I would lump in this category.

But there is a light at the end of the tunnel, I guess. I think Dustin Rhodes mentioned that while the company was okay about letting him go, they then tried to get more dates out of him, but as soon as he got a lawyer involved, they backed down. So I guess put aside money from each paycheck to afford a lawyer, if push should ever come to shove.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Moxley on Talk is Jericho & AEW Double or Nothing

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:33 pm

We've talked about this on-air from time-to-time over the years but all it would take to really shake up the contract structure of that company is a few guys willing to let lawyers get involved. For whatever reason, wrestlers very often haven't instead opting to use agents or just negotiating and agreeing to deals on their own. Now, in the past, I get it. You dont want to ruffle feathers with the only game in town. With (for the time being) some competition in the marketplace it's a great time for people to do what Dustin did and really challenge the wording, structure and restrictions these days include.

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