Round 1 (Pillman): [1] Roman Reigns vs [16] Jay White

[1] Roman Reigns vs [16] Jay White

Poll ended at Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:57 pm

[1] Roman Reigns
33
38%
[16] Jay White
53
62%
 
Total votes: 86

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mlev76
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Re: Round 1 (Pillman): [1] Roman Reigns vs [16] Jay White

Post by mlev76 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 4:38 pm

cherrylimeaid wrote:Again I don't know how "Well he is in a main event, or main events" is a valid argument at all. At least for me. Simply answer this. Have you studied wrestling to stay aware of wrestling enough where you know terrible WRESTLERS have been in main events continually, normally carried by great WRESTLERS? Please please please miev76 answer that. If you don't believe a terrible wrestler has ever been put in a main event status spot our conflict of opinions is spelled out right there, and Baron Vonhowever you spell his last name Roshkee can rest a little easier.

This is not a best status as of right now tournament. FOR ME. Again I'm always allowing you to make this tournament only about status in your votes. That is your prerogative. In fact this COULD in fact be, put these two guys in the same situation. There is zero chance I trust Roman to be able to put White over in a good match. My life or company on the line I'm much more likely to trust White to be able to put Roman over. For me it's simple as that. I"m sorry that Roman has the undeserved status he has. I, and most, really are. But at the end of the day that's really all he has.

But thank you for the "put in similar circumstances argument". Since this tournament does include indies and with 64 people can't possibly include all main eventers that IS exactly what this tournament represents FOR ME. All the more power for what it represents FOR YOU.
Four points:

1) I've been watching wrestling for 30+ years and my primary promotion growing up was 80s WWF. I watched the MSG shows every month and suffice to say, I've seen some wretched main eventers. That said, Reigns being a main eventer alone is not my point. He is main eventer and he generally delivers in that spot. He's had many very good to great matches and main evented a great match at Mania last year.

2) By way of comparison, White is purposefully segregated to the early part of the show by being a Young Lion in New Japan. This means even when he is wrestling wretched over the hill wrestlers like Nakanishi, he has to put them over. His job is to be pin fodder in many instances and when he's not, he's there to train.

3) The tournament is meant to decide "best of right now." Well, in my mind, in almost every circumstance, a main eventer is better than a prelim guy. The exception would be truly horrible main eventer (Khali, Koslov) against a prodigy like prelim guy (think early Danielson).

4) By the very nature of the fact Roman would have to "put over" White shows why this is somewhat ridiculous. A lesser wrestler would never be asked to do that for a better one. There would be no need.

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Lawsoncomedy
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Re: Round 1 (Pillman): [1] Roman Reigns vs [16] Jay White

Post by Lawsoncomedy » Sat Mar 19, 2016 5:10 pm

HAHA I love this. I voted for Reigns but I love that this is happening.

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Re: Round 1 (Pillman): [1] Roman Reigns vs [16] Jay White

Post by JML » Sat Mar 19, 2016 7:56 pm

I voted for Jay White based on if I had a gun to my head. Reigns has been good but White has wowed me from the first time I saw him.

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Re: Round 1 (Pillman): [1] Roman Reigns vs [16] Jay White

Post by Hercules Ayala » Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:13 pm

This is all your fault, Voices of Wrestling, for even including Reigns in this tournament, let alone making him a #1 seed in the same region that includes Styles and Nakamura. LOL!! Reigns does not belong in this conversation.

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Re: Round 1 (Pillman): [1] Roman Reigns vs [16] Jay White

Post by cherrylimeaid » Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:14 pm

I thought of a better way to explain my viewpoint. Throw out status and flip a coin to see who wins the matches and put these men in round robin brackets of let's say.... 16 (the bracket divisions). Who has more matches I'd like or pay to see. Jay White or Reigns? Isn't "that" the guy who is the best wrester, right now?

That's my perspective. Not, has guy A main evented. Yes. Has guy B main evented. No. Well let's not care who they are. Guy B gets tossed in the trash.

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Re: Round 1 (Pillman): [1] Roman Reigns vs [16] Jay White

Post by Hercules Ayala » Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:21 pm

The problem here is that neither of these guys should be in this poll. Reigns shouldn't be, because although he is not a terrible in-ring performer, he is failing colossally at one of the things pro wrestlers get paid to do: getting over. White shouldn't be here because, although he is massively talented, he is a jobber.

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Re: Round 1 (Pillman): [1] Roman Reigns vs [16] Jay White

Post by Alex Wendland » Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:48 pm

The worst part is that this spot should've been Silas Young's. Rob's got it out for Silas.

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Re: Round 1 (Pillman): [1] Roman Reigns vs [16] Jay White

Post by Rob McCarron » Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:50 pm

Silas was a #1 in the NIT, but the tournament failed to find a distribution partner so it's being played in obscurity.
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Re: Round 1 (Pillman): [1] Roman Reigns vs [16] Jay White

Post by Rob McCarron » Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:55 pm

Hercules Ayala wrote:The problem here is that neither of these guys should be in this poll. Reigns shouldn't be, because although he is not a terrible in-ring performer, he is failing colossally at one of the things pro wrestlers get paid to do: getting over.
Says you. WWE audiences, WWE Shop, and this new WWE charity auction say differently.
White shouldn't be here because, although he is massively talented, he is a jobber.
White was voted in by readers to enter the field of 64, so many wanted him in.

Some of what this tournament, and the seeding, is supposed to show you is to think differently about some possible misconceptions about "Who is 'the best'" or "Who is most over" etc. Most of the tournament, though, is just fun and seeing who right now has the most hardcore support.

Roman Reigns puts on really good PPV matches with a variety of people - Ambrose, Brock, Bryan, Orton. He's also been near a top guy since Day 1 of his appearing on TV. He's got a pretty big WWE fanbase among casuals, and even hardcores to an extent.

But keep in mind, this tournament isn't scientific, nor is it supposed to be. I was seriously one step away from having both Ricochet and Prince Puma both in the field of 64, to put this in perspective. HAVE FUN WITH IT!

That said, I'd argue with anyone that they're silly for thinking Roman Reigns isn't among the Top 64 pro wrestlers in the world right now. Pro wrestling isn't just about in ring. There is a lot to it. The same way Hulk Hogan at a time was undeniably the best wrestler in the world, Roman Reigns is a Top 64 guyer for sure.
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Re: Round 1 (Pillman): [1] Roman Reigns vs [16] Jay White

Post by cherrylimeaid » Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:38 pm

While I enjoyed some debate and some perspective on how people are voting I'd never say Roman didn't deserve to be here. Or that he didn't deserve the number one seed. Sort of think he should have been one of the first picks in the US bracket but...meh.

Some people very clearly think status is 80 percent or more of what makes a wrestler which is fine. I personally find it a crutch that Reigns and well.... yes Hogan very much need to have a chance or any legs to stand on at all. My opinion. Without status at all can I see the point that Reigns isn't one of the top 64? In ring talent? Meh I'm not that offended but either way isn't a stretch. Sadly, IMO, yes when status is included some will need to say that even someone with the limited in ring skill set of Hogan was a "greatest wrestler" of his era.

Given 8 random opponents I simply have much more faith that Where They Are At Now, I'd be far more entertained by Jay White's matches than Roman vs the same people. Someone coming in with both men being a blank slate I believe would be as well, unless they sort of get the hots for Mr Reigns.

I personally feel how prejudiced some might be as far as status goes.... "the prelim young lion guy who doesn't win unless it's against another young lion" Kometsu was FAR from the dirt bottom of last year's Super Juniors as it seems like some would say or be prejudiced enough to say due to status. Honma a man who never wins shone in G1 two years ago where he couldn't win and perhaps outshone some of the main eventers who entered. I really feel sorry for people who think that by the almighty "status" who think differently and couldn't appreciate those men in those situations as "great wrestlers as of those times".

I'm sorry, just the closed minded, come the "f" on as if anybody voting for Mr. White was....out there...offended me. Limiting a wrestlers greatness by "status" I know is sadly how 80 to 90 percent watch their TV and they are allowed that. Just trust me, the spectrum is better on the otherside when you can stand in awe of the Kometsu's and Honmas of our era.

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Re: Round 1 (Pillman): [1] Roman Reigns vs [16] Jay White

Post by mlev76 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:36 pm

Jay White has conquered the Roman Empire. Clearly, anyone who does not vote for the Randy Mulkey of the 2010s should hang their head in shame!

WHITE POWER! Oh wait, that's not good...

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Re: Round 1 (Pillman): [1] Roman Reigns vs [16] Jay White

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:38 pm

Reno Riggins > Hulk Hogan, there I said it.

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Re: Round 1 (Pillman): [1] Roman Reigns vs [16] Jay White

Post by Alazez » Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:13 am

i know some how jay white make its way to beat him because he is far far good and also senior

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