2018 Inductees

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mlev76
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2018 Inductees

Post by mlev76 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:37 pm

LA Park
Yuji Nagata
Jerry Jarrett
Bil Apter
Jimmy Hart
Gary Hart
Howard Finkel

Most of the inductees were non-wrestlers which is an interesting development given the five who got in have all done fairly well over the years.

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armsofsleep
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Re: 2018 Inductees

Post by armsofsleep » Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:35 pm

Nagata getting in when he's probably not even in the top 5 most deserving Japan candidates is nuts but Cien Caras dropping off the ballot is maybe even crazier.

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Joe Lanza
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Re: 2018 Inductees

Post by Joe Lanza » Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:12 pm

If you voted forboth Nagata & Akiyama, fine. If you voted for Nagata and didn't vote for Akiyama, i'd love to hear why. I see them as essentially the same candidate, except one has stronger head to head credentials in every way.

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Re: 2018 Inductees

Post by mlev76 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:55 pm

Joe Lanza wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:12 pm
If you voted forboth Nagata & Akiyama, fine. If you voted for Nagata and didn't vote for Akiyama, i'd love to hear why. I see them as essentially the same candidate, except one has stronger head to head credentials in every way.
When you look at the breakdown between the two of them amongst the voters, Akiyama does better than Nagata with reporters and historians while Nagata does better (albeit seemingly slightly) with current wrestlers. This would seem to indicate Nagata got in based on a very high showing amongst current wrestlers which makes me wonder if this vote was 10-15 years ago if the two would have been thought of differently. The resurgence of NJPW and the limited viewership of All Japan/NOAH probably is reflected here more than anything else.

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Re: 2018 Inductees

Post by mlev76 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:00 pm

Curious about if other hall of fames are as opaque about their voters as WON is. Obviously, those who reveal their ballots lessen this, but who are the wrestlers,past and present? Who is deemeed a historian or reporter?

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Re: 2018 Inductees

Post by mlev76 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:38 pm


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thecubsfan
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Re: 2018 Inductees

Post by thecubsfan » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:03 am

LA Park IN. Blue Panther, Cien Caras, Vampiro, Ruben Juarez, Universo 2000 all out. That's nearly half the Mexico section gone. Volador being added isn't going to shift many votes. If the complaint was too many lucha candidates to decide from, those voters did make those decisions.

Or, really, the extra people who appointed themselves Mexico voters this year to vote for LA Park made the decisions and the people who vote normally in that category are along for that ride. I'm sure Vampiro got the exact same number of votes he always gets, but he's out this year because people who previously abstained from the category spent the last year rigorously considering his candidacy - or maybe just saw someone they wanted to vote for and didn't think much of the rest. (And I'm not really a fan of Vampiro.) I think this system where it is completely left to the whims of the voters to decide what categories they feel qualified to vote in that year is badly thought out - if Dave is deciding who is qualified, shouldn't he also have an idea of what they're qualified for?

I'm disappointed that Blue Panther & Cien Caras are off the ballot but I think the voters had already long made up their decisions on those two and nothing would've shaken them from the 40-50% territory if they remained on the ballot. I'm also not seeing this as the end of the road - the Harold Baines/Lee Smith baseball hall of fame deal reminds me there's always new ways to get people down the line.

I think, unfortunately, the voters have also dug in their spots on Los Brazos, Karloff Lagarde, Huracan Ramirez and they're also never going to get enough votes. I don't want to say it's a waste to vote for them, because I'll probably keep voting for them next year, but the vote isn't going to accomplish anything. I think Caristico is almost in the same boat, except he's still active and so maybe something will happen to cause him to reevaluate his career. And if Carisitco can't even get 20%, Volador is going to be one and done on this ballot.

So that leaves Ultimo Guerrero and Dr. Wagner as active stars who probably just need one more high profile (and well timed) big show main event to get the last few votes to get in, and Los Misioneros de la Muerte & Villano III as former stars who need to hope that all they keep all the votes they're getting when the LA Park crew leaves next year. Either those last two breeze in with a smaller voter poll next year, or you can file them with the others. There are going to be plenty of names under Mexico for a while, but it's really going to be only a 4 candidate ballot in 2019, and less than that in 2020.

(Psycho Clown should be on the ballot. He's only 32, but started when he was 14, so that meets the 15-year limit and has been the top face the last few years for one of the biggest promotions in the world. But I'm not sure there's much point in telling Dave that to see Psycho drift along at 15% for eons.)

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Re: 2018 Inductees

Post by Joe Lanza » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:15 am

thecubsfan wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:03 am
LA Park IN. Blue Panther, Cien Caras, Vampiro, Ruben Juarez, Universo 2000 all out. That's nearly half the Mexico section gone. Volador being added isn't going to shift many votes. If the complaint was too many lucha candidates to decide from, those voters did make those decisions.

Or, really, the extra people who appointed themselves Mexico voters this year to vote for LA Park made the decisions and the people who vote normally in that category are along for that ride. I'm sure Vampiro got the exact same number of votes he always gets, but he's out this year because people who previously abstained from the category spent the last year rigorously considering his candidacy - or maybe just saw someone they wanted to vote for and didn't think much of the rest. (And I'm not really a fan of Vampiro.) I think this system where it is completely left to the whims of the voters to decide what categories they feel qualified to vote in that year is badly thought out - if Dave is deciding who is qualified, shouldn't he also have an idea of what they're qualified for?

I'm disappointed that Blue Panther & Cien Caras are off the ballot but I think the voters had already long made up their decisions on those two and nothing would've shaken them from the 40-50% territory if they remained on the ballot. I'm also not seeing this as the end of the road - the Harold Baines/Lee Smith baseball hall of fame deal reminds me there's always new ways to get people down the line.

I think, unfortunately, the voters have also dug in their spots on Los Brazos, Karloff Lagarde, Huracan Ramirez and they're also never going to get enough votes. I don't want to say it's a waste to vote for them, because I'll probably keep voting for them next year, but the vote isn't going to accomplish anything. I think Caristico is almost in the same boat, except he's still active and so maybe something will happen to cause him to reevaluate his career. And if Carisitco can't even get 20%, Volador is going to be one and done on this ballot.

So that leaves Ultimo Guerrero and Dr. Wagner as active stars who probably just need one more high profile (and well timed) big show main event to get the last few votes to get in, and Los Misioneros de la Muerte & Villano III as former stars who need to hope that all they keep all the votes they're getting when the LA Park crew leaves next year. Either those last two breeze in with a smaller voter poll next year, or you can file them with the others. There are going to be plenty of names under Mexico for a while, but it's really going to be only a 4 candidate ballot in 2019, and less than that in 2020.

(Psycho Clown should be on the ballot. He's only 32, but started when he was 14, so that meets the 15-year limit and has been the top face the last few years for one of the biggest promotions in the world. But I'm not sure there's much point in telling Dave that to see Psycho drift along at 15% for eons.)
Just look at the math and expanded Mexico voter field, and there is no doubt as to what happened this year:



People who never vote Mexico voted for Park, and screwed Misioneros de las Muerte for sure, probably cost two others induction, and wiped Cien Caras & Blue Panther off the ballot.

Mexico would've had four inductees, plus Caras & Panther sticking around, had people stayed in their lane.

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Re: 2018 Inductees

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:31 am

mlev76 wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:00 pm
Curious about if other hall of fames are as opaque about their voters as WON is. Obviously, those who reveal their ballots lessen this, but who are the wrestlers,past and present? Who is deemeed a historian or reporter?
It would be great to have more insights as to this but seemingly every other sports HOF is about the same. It wasn't until peer pressure a few years ago that we had ANY idea who was voting in the Baseball Hall of Fame. There were guys who hadn't covered baseball in decades still getting ballots. A lot of that has adjusted and now more of the full-time bloggers, web guys from Fangraphs/Baseball Prospectus, etc. are getting ballots. Likewise with twitter and other social platforms voters are now more inclined to release their ballots to the public. Still, we went a good 100 years not REALLY knowing who was voting for the Baseball HOF other than it was Baseball Writers but who was deemed a "baseball writer" was pretty open ended.

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