2017 WON HOF Ballot & Discussion

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Joe Lanza
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2017 WON HOF Ballot & Discussion

Post by Joe Lanza » Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:07 am

It's time for the 2017 Hall of Fame elections.

This ballot is being sent out to major wrestling stars, past and present, major management figures in the industry, writers and historians.

If you are getting this, you are being asked your opinion on who should be inducted into this year's Hall of Fame class. The criteria for the Hall of Fame is a combination of drawing power, being a great in-ring performer or excelling in ones field in pro wrestling, as well as having historical significance in a positive manner. A candidate should either have something to offer in all three categories, or be someone so outstanding in one or two of those categories that they deserve inclusion.

The names listed below are those under consideration for this year. To be eligible, a performer must have reached their 35th birthday and completed ten years since their debut as a full-time performer, or be someone who has been a full-time pro wrestler for at least 15 years.

Longevity should be a prime consideration rather than a hot two or three year run, unless someone is so significant as a trend-setter or a historical figure in the business, or valuable to the industry, that they need to be included. However, just longevity without being either a long-term main eventer, a top draw and/or a top caliber in-ring performer should be seen as relatively meaningless.

The election is broken down into a number of categories. You should check each category for wrestlers that you feel you are familiar enough with based on geography that you've either traveled or are familiar with, and based on the time you have followed pro wrestling. You do not have to vote for a wrestler in every category you've checked.

The ballot is also broken down to wrestlers and those who are not pro wrestlers but have been valuable parts of the industry.

The maximum number of wrestlers that you can vote for all the categories is ten. You can pick as few as zero if you don't believe anyone on this list deserves inclusion.

For wrestling executives, managers, announcers and other outside the ring performers, you can vote for them and they are not counted against the ten. You can vote for as many as five of them.

All responses are confidential. There is nothing to worry about politically about any involvement in this process. Your selections will not be revealed unless you choose to do so yourself.

Anyone who receives mention on 60% of the ballots from the geographical region and time frame (broken down as Continental United States & Canada; Mexico; Japan; and the rest of the world) will be added to the Hall of Fame in the class of 2017.

If you are unfamiliar with any of the candidates due to geography of having never seen them, that is fine. Ballots are sent to many people from all over the world and from different wrestling cultures so that everyone has as fair a shot at possible.

The breakdown for modern and historical performers is 30 years ago, or 1987. So if the last year the person was a headliner, or was a key figure in the industry, was prior to 1987, they would be in the historical class.

All performers who receive mention on 10% to 59.9% of the ballots from their geographical region or era will remain on the ballot for consideration next year. All those who receive less than 10% of the vote will be dropped from next year's ballot. They can return in two years based on if there is significant feedback from voters who say they will vote for them. This is mostly for wrestlers who are still active who may improve their career legacy, but can be for retired wrestlers if voters believe they should be put on or returned to the ballot.

In addition, in following the lead of the baseball Hall of Fame, which is the model here, starting this year we have a 15-year-rule. The following candidates have been on the ballot since 2003. In baseball, this would be their last year of eligibility. Here, if they don't get at least 50% of the votes in this year's election they will be removed from the ballot. If they are modern candidates, they can be brought back in the historical performers era in two years if it is more than 30 years since their career as a Hall Fame level performer is up:

The following candidates will be dropped from next year's ballot unless they are elected in or garner 50% of the vote:

Curt Hennig
Yuji Nagata
Don Owen
Tim Woods

Please return this ballot by November 1st.

Please check by every category you are familiar with

I FOLLOWED THE HISTORICAL PERFORMERS ERA CANDIDATES
Red Bastien
June Byers
Wild Bull Curry
Cowboy Bob Ellis
Don Fargo
Pepper Gomez
Archie "Mongolian Stomper" Gouldie
Chavo Guerrero Sr.
Dick Hutton
Rocky Johnson
Sputnik Monroe
Pedro Morales
Blackjack Mulligan
George Steele
John Tolos
Enrique Torres
Von Brauners & Saul Weingeroff
Johnny "Mr. Wrestling II" Walker
Tim "Mr. Wrestling" Woods
Bearcat Wright

I FOLLOWED THE MODERN PERFORMERS IN U.S/CANADA CANDIDATES
Tully Blanchard & Arn Anderson w/J.J. Dillon
Junkyard Dog
Edge
Bill Goldberg
Curt Hennig
Randy Orton
C.M. Punk
Sgt. Slaughter
Trish Stratus
A.J. Styles
Kerry Von Erich
Ultimate Warrior

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN JAPAN CANDIDATES
Jun Akiyama
Cima
Yoshiaki Fujiwara
Hayabusa
Kota Ibushi
Satoshi Kojima & Hiroyoshi Tenzan
Yuji Nagata
Tetsuya Naito
Mike & Ben Sharpe
Minoru Suzuki
Kiyoshi Tamura
Akira Taue

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN MEXICO CANDIDATES
Brazo de Oro & Brazo de Plata & El Brazo
Caristico/Mistico
Sangre Chicana
Cien Caras
Ultimo Guerrero
Ruben Juarez
Karloff Lagarde
Blue Panther
L.A. Park
Huracan Ramirez
El Signo & El Texano & Negro Navarro
Vampiro
Villano III
Dr. Wagner Jr.

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN AUSTRALIA/NEW ZEALAND/PACIFIC ISLANDS/AFRICA CANDIDATES

Spyros Arion
Johnny Barend
Domenic DeNucci
Killer Karl Kox
Mark Lewin
Mario Milano
Steve Rickard
Otto Wanz

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN EUROPE

Big Daddy
Horst Hoffman
Billy Joyce
Kendo Nagasaki
Rollerball Mark Rocco
Johny Saint
Ricky Starr
Otto Wanz

NON-WRESTLERS
Bill Apter
Lord James Blears
Dave Brown
Chyna
Jim Crockett Jr.
Jim Crockett Sr.
Gary Hart
Jimmy Hart
Howard Finkel
Ed Francis
Jerry Jarrett
Larry Matysik
Don Owen
George Scott
Stanley Weston

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DylanWaco
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Re: 2017 WON HOF Ballot & Discussion

Post by DylanWaco » Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:42 pm

Looks like Meltzer took Jim Breaks off the ballot himself. Did Snuka fall off last year or was he pulled too? Probably a smart move in all honesty, but I do admit that the removal of Breaks from the ballot (I wouldn't have voted for him given the murder to be fair) and the continuing Daddy situation make it a near certainty I will never vote in that region.

The only candidate from that modern performers region that strikes me as strong is JYD. It's pretty clearly the weakest region as it's basically a hodge podge of "names," and weird inclusions that come across as desperate slot fillers. Anderson/Tully with JJ is one of the weakest candidates to ever appear on the ballot, and I say that as someone who has Arn as one of his five favorite wrestlers of all time. No one tell Blackstock Dave forgot to add Rick Martel.

Timing has a lot to do with whether or not you get in, probably way too much to be honest and it may be a case where AJ has kind of missed his window as weird as that sounds. He won't fall off as he's done already, but if he had hit the ballot for the first time last year coming off the huge debut at the big run in NJPW, the great debut at the Royal Rumble, and the big Cena match at Summerslam where he was treated as the equal of John...well this is the same electorate that has brought in Nakamura, Brock, and Sting in the last couple of years. With Styles pegged where he is now I think he feels like much less of a star than he did before even though that isn't necessarily true, and I would expect it will lesson his chances of being the next modern guy to roll on in. On the other hand Dr. Wagner Jr probably has a decent shot of getting bumped ahead of guys like the Death Missionaries, Caras, Villano 3 and others in the lucha category because of losing his hood this year.

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Garuda
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Re: 2017 WON HOF Ballot & Discussion

Post by Garuda » Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:43 am

DylanWaco wrote: Timing has a lot to do with whether or not you get in, probably way too much to be honest and it may be a case where AJ has kind of missed his window as weird as that sounds. He won't fall off as he's done already, but if he had hit the ballot for the first time last year coming off the huge debut at the big run in NJPW, the great debut at the Royal Rumble, and the big Cena match at Summerslam where he was treated as the equal of John...well this is the same electorate that has brought in Nakamura, Brock, and Sting in the last couple of years. With Styles pegged where he is now I think he feels like much less of a star than he did before even though that isn't necessarily true, and I would expect it will lesson his chances of being the next modern guy to roll on in. On the other hand Dr. Wagner Jr probably has a decent shot of getting bumped ahead of guys like the Death Missionaries, Caras, Villano 3 and others in the lucha category because of losing his hood this year.

Man I wanted to say something like this about A.J. Styles but couldn't word it half as well. A few months of being lost in the Smackdown shuffle has destroyed his buzz in advance of ballot season. He's not any worse a candidate or wrestler - not better or worse for this recent streak - but the afterglow is gone and I think he's got tough odds of making it in. And Nakamura is the perfect example of timing making all the difference.

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Re: 2017 WON HOF Ballot & Discussion

Post by cheapshot » Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:31 pm

DylanWaco wrote:Looks like Meltzer took Jim Breaks off the ballot himself. Did Snuka fall off last year or was he pulled too? Probably a smart move in all honesty, but I do admit that the removal of Breaks from the ballot (I wouldn't have voted for him given the murder to be fair) and the continuing Daddy situation make it a near certainty I will never vote in that region.


Dave shouldn't be removing Jim Breaks, considering he's never been tried for anything yet.
DylanWaco wrote:No one tell Blackstock Dave forgot to add Rick Martel.


Too late, someone made me aware, I've asked Dave about it, waiting to see if it was a simple clerical error.
wrestlingeye.libsyn.com

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mlev76
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Re: 2017 WON HOF Ballot & Discussion

Post by mlev76 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:15 pm

Edge and Orton are both curiosities to me. They have both been big parts of WWE for at least a decade, Orton going on two. When you look at where they stand with regard to Wrestlemania, both have been heavily featured throughout their careers. Orton one of only 15 total wrestlers to main event multiple Wrestlemanias. Of those 15, only four of the currently eligible inductees (Reigns has three, but is not elgible yet) are not in-Orton, Batista, Yoko and Sid.

Similarly, there are only 21 wrestlers who have been in more than one main event or world title match in Mania history including both Edge and Orton. 13 of those are already in, and of those that remain, Edge and Orton have been in more big time matches than any of them except Batista. So, in looking at this alone, it seems that they were a big part of the focal part of WWE's biggest show of the year for quite some time, but no more than Batista who isn't on the ballot. So, does this mean Batista is being overlooked or does it mean that they may be overhyped?

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DylanWaco
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Re: 2017 WON HOF Ballot & Discussion

Post by DylanWaco » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:16 pm

Batista fell off the ballot. He's a better candidate than both Orton and Edge in my view

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armsofsleep
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Re: 2017 WON HOF Ballot & Discussion

Post by armsofsleep » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:35 pm

Would take a lot of the Mexico guys over a bunch of other categories in full. Outside of Mexico, JYD and Akiyama strike me as strong candidates (in the sense that I would vote for them), but I hope you all are prepared for 2017 WON HOF inductee Tetsuya Naito sooner rather than later.

Also can't see Edge or Orton as viable candidates. Orton is probably the better of the two, but he's not even really that close for me.

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Re: 2017 WON HOF Ballot & Discussion

Post by mlev76 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:45 pm

I continue to be perplexed/disheartened by the failure of Slaughter to get in. If you made a top ten of most popular/well known wrestlers of the 1980s, he would be on it easily and perhaps in the top five. His work in the ring was also very good for the first half of the decade. I feel like he gets penalized for leaving WWE and having an admittedly sporadic in terms of matches career post WWE. Maybe I'm biased due to my age, but overall, if I had a vote, in the modern US category, he'd be my first pick.

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Re: 2017 WON HOF Ballot & Discussion

Post by thecubsfan » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:39 pm

Last year's lucha % numbers via Mookie

58% Cien Caras
56% Villano III
50% Blue Panther
47% El Signo & El Texano & Negro Navarro
42% Karloff Lagarde
39% L.A. Park
36% Huracan Ramirez
30% Caristico/Mistico
29% Brazo de Oro & Brazo de Plata & El Brazo
28% Ultimo Guerrero
27% Dr. Wagner Jr.
13% Vampiro
NEW Ruben Juarez
NEW Sangre Chicana

Read Alfredo's bio if you're wondering who Ruben Juarez is, and then ask Dave why Alfredo's bio got the guy on the list but apparently hasn't gotten Alfredo a vote.

I did not live thru the Vampiro peak and see him more like Cibernetico (who got no traction in this list) than Konnan. I'm iffy on Juarez and Lagarde. I would use my 10 choices without hesitation for the 11 other choices on this list. You can see the problem.

Wagner's going up because of the mask match, but he's got to more than double his vote to get in. I didn't realize it was that low before looking it up. If people are going to rally around a candidate, it makes more sense to do it for Villano III and Cien Caras, since they've been sitting in the waiting room for a decade and it'd free up a lot of votes to go somewhere else. If just five people more can be convinced to vote for them this time, this list might actually change.

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Re: 2017 WON HOF Ballot & Discussion

Post by BoxingRobes » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:21 pm

I'm with Joe on the Don Owen train. Definitely a guy who should be in already. Would hate for him to fall off the map.

Punk
AJ Styles

both should be in and to me, its not particularly close.

I think Bill Goldberg is an interesting "Terrell Davis" type candidate. Not sure you can tell the story of wrestling without him either. One of the toughest candidates on the ballot and one of the more divisive candidates, IMO, if he ever gets in. Tough one.

I'm biased, but surely CIMA deserved some influence pub as a HoF candidate.

Apter, the Crocketts, and Jimmy Hart should be in.

Interested in hearing @cubsfan's take on Mistico in as a candidate.

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packerman120
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Re: 2017 WON HOF Ballot & Discussion

Post by packerman120 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:24 am

If I was a voter, I'd vote for:

CM Punk
AJ Styles
CIMA
Jun Akiyama

I'd be shocked if any of those four fail to get in eventually. They all feel like such no-brainers to me.

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Joe Lanza
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Re: 2017 WON HOF Ballot & Discussion

Post by Joe Lanza » Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:49 pm

Watching some Slaughter. Zellner rec'd a 1981 Tunney territory US Title defense vs Jay Youngblood. Decent with a more definitive finish than I was expecting.

YouTube auto played Slaughter vs Stevie Richards from 2003 Sunday Night Heat. The file was like 8 minutes so I was intrigued. IT WAS AWESOME. Sarge took the over the turnbuckle bump and Stevie was having the time of his life. Stevie did Sheik's mannerisms and the Camel Clutch. You know he grew up on that shit so it must have been the coolest to wrestle Sarge and do Iron Shieks's routine. The match was legit good.

I let auto play go and I watched Sarge vs Flair from 1991 Superstars. This was babyface Sarge on the way down, and Flair was doing the Real World's Champ bit and beating guys on TV every week to heat him up. Another shockingly good match with Slaughter bumping all over the place, and they even got me on a near fall because Flair is Flair.

It then took me to Flair vs Shawn Michaels from Challenge during the same period. The Sarge match was BETTER. I shit you not. And it's a fair comp. Both were short TV matches, same period of TV, and both featured storyline advancement for the opponent that led to "cheap" wins for Flair (The Mountie cattle prodded Sarge, and Jannetty accidentally cost Michaels a pinfall loss which was more fuel for the split that was coming). Flair/Slaughter smoked Flair/Michaels.

Not sure what my point here is, other than late career Slaughter was better than you probably remember. I'll have to look at the Hogan stuff again with fresh eyes.

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Re: 2017 WON HOF Ballot & Discussion

Post by Garuda » Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:16 pm

(Not a voter)

When I first started paying attention to the HOF in 2014/5, I really thought CM Punk was a guy who deserved to be in. But every year I think his case looks worse and worse to me. Were his accomplishments so incredible for overcome the short period he flourished? I think he was misused, and then left before he could make enough of a resume to stick the HOF slot.

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Re: 2017 WON HOF Ballot & Discussion

Post by dkookypunk43 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:46 pm

If I had a ballot, this is how I'd vote

I FOLLOWED THE MODERN PERFORMERS IN U.S/CANADA CANDIDATES
Edge
C.M. Punk
A.J. Styles

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN JAPAN CANDIDATES
Jun Akiyama
Cima


NON-WRESTLERS
Jimmy Hart
Howard Finkel
Jerry Jarrett
Don Owen
George Scott
Stanley Weston

Justifications

Edge: Very good career, drew as Cena's foil for many years and was consistent in the ring

CM Punk: A candidate that has a strong case for influence alone and I feel that influence of being the indy guy in the grand scheme of things changed how WWE attacks those indy and international names when it comes to signing and packaging them. In ring, his WWE stuff holds up better than his actual indy run and draw I think being the number one merchandise seller for long periods of time constitutes people wanting to see you.

AJ Styles: A pure in ring candidate and that alone if you actually watch all of his matches from different promotions, he is so overwhelmingly good.

Jun Akiyama: The in ring alone makes Akiyama a slam dunk and if you add the other two criteria he saved All Japan from the dead and drew the biggest non New Japan Tokyo Dome house, yeah he's the most obvious candidate on the list.

CIMA- The Dragon Gate influence is huge here, he's changed the way Japanese juniors are viewed as stars and influenced a great in ring style.
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armsofsleep
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Re: 2017 WON HOF Ballot & Discussion

Post by armsofsleep » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:47 pm

Shocked by how many people are pushing for Punk. He probably has a good case as an influence, but that's about it. His work doesn't hold up much at all.

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