What are the essential 20-25 ROH matches?

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JB Gremlin
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Re: What are the essential 20-25 ROH matches?

Post by JB Gremlin » Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:44 pm

Joe Lanza wrote:
JB Gremlin wrote:
Joe Lanza wrote:For such a hot year he had, I'm seeing very little '15 Roddy. I know a lot of his great stuff was outside ROH, but still.

For NJPW joint show stuff, I'd say Okada/RPG vs BC and the Bucks/reDRagon match from NYC would top the list.
Yep, I had the Bucks and reDRagon match on my list, although it's on a joint show I don't necessarily see it as a match that came out of the partnership simply because ROH booked those 4 guys, and that match, without NJPW's help. The Bullet Club six man on the other hand, was very obviously booked because of the New Japan partnership. My point really being, it drives home the idea that while it's great to have the New Japan guys around and it does produce enjoyable shows it won't produce the big important moments that we'll remember in ten years! I can still remember so much of what I loved on the 2006 cards, especially the main events, yet 2014-now I struggle to really pick something that stands out as a must watch to show you what ROH was/is in this era.
The problem with the ROH/NJPW thing producing big memorable moments is that ROH can't match NJPW's star power right now. What is the obvious mega match that they haven't done? There isn't one, because ROH doesn't have a hypothetical Joe to put up against a hypothetical Kobashi.

The shows obviously do good business, but it speaks volumes that arguably two of the best matches are bouts that NJPW could have done themselves in Korakuen Hall.
That's unquestionably another point to it, with the right build I think the first year you had Steen, Elgin, Strong and Cole who all could have gone on top against Okada, Nak or Tanahashi had politics allowed and it might have been a big deal. Of course part of what makes the Joe/ Kobashi match so special is that it was a one weekend shot on the top of an otherwise regular ROH card. Maybe we'd all hold the first War of the Worlds show in higher regard if that was the end of the partnership?

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Joe Lanza
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Re: What are the essential 20-25 ROH matches?

Post by Joe Lanza » Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:50 pm

The first War of the Worlds was pretty great, all I'm saying is that the shows have produced shockingly little in the way of big moments or iconic matches. Just look at the lists people have made here.

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JB Gremlin
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Re: What are the essential 20-25 ROH matches?

Post by JB Gremlin » Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:58 pm

I totally agree, that's why I asked the question. I sort of wanted a joint show match on my list because it would kind of make sense for a "history of ROH in 25 matches" deal but I was struggling to pick one that emphatically stood out.

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Re: What are the essential 20-25 ROH matches?

Post by K. Hare » Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:06 am

Roddy vs. Tanahashi last year should have been portrayed as a legendary match, but it was basically treated like any other match on the floor. But Roddy just covered in blood almost finishing off Tanahashi should be something the company references forever.

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Re: What are the essential 20-25 ROH matches?

Post by Ferrante207 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:48 am

K. Hare wrote:Roddy vs. Tanahashi last year should have been portrayed as a legendary match, but it was basically treated like any other match on the floor. But Roddy just covered in blood almost finishing off Tanahashi should be something the company references forever.
I was front row for this match and the crowd def did not help. Just treated it like a nice little showcase. Unsure if ROH's conditioning had to do with this. Tanahashi also does not have the "cool factor" of Okada/Nak with the western fans.

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Re: What are the essential 20-25 ROH matches?

Post by DoubleCrossKing » Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:04 am

itsberlo wrote:To narrow these down to 20 to 25 is tough but here goes. In no particular order:

Low Ki vs KENTA Final Battle 2005
KENTA vs Bryan Danielsom Glory by Honor V 2006
Do Fixer vs Blood Generation Supercard of Honor 2006
CZW vs ROH (Cage of Death) Death before Dishonor IV 2006
Briscoes vs Steen/Generico (ladder match) Man Up 2007
AJ Styles vs Paul London Night of Grudges 2003
Low Ki vs Daniels vs Danielson Era of Honor Begins 2002
Samoa Joe vs Punk II 2004
Samoa Joe vs Kenta Kobashi 2005
Embassy vs Generation Next (cage match) Steel Cage Warfare 2005
CM Punk vs Austin Aries Death before Dishonor III 2005
Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuiness Unified 2005
Low Ki vs Bryan Danielson Round Robin Challenge 2002
Paul London vs Michael Shane Unscripted 2002
Paul London vs Bryan Danielson Epic Encounter 2003
Nigel McGuiness vs Austin Aries Rising Above 2007
Nigel McGuiness vs Tyler Black Take No Prisoners 2008
Samoa Joe vs Jay Briscoe (cage match) At Our Best 2004
Austin Aries vs Samoa Joe Final Battle 2004
Roderick Strong vs Bryan Danielson Vendetta 2005
CZW vs ROH 100th Show 2005
AJ Styles vs Paul London Night of Grudges 2003
Nigel McGuiness vs Jimmy Rave (Fight without Honor) Fifth Year Festival Finale 2007
Bryan Danielson vs Takeshi Morishima Manhattan Mayhem II 2007
El Generico vs Claudio Castagnoli Race to the Top Tournament Night 2 2007
Claudio Castagnoli vs Nigel McGuiness vs Bryan Danielson vs Tyler Black Death before Dishonor VI 2008
Amazing that such a comprehensive list of amazing matches can still miss some of my personal favs like Joe/Punk 3 and Homicide/Danielson at FB2006. Says a shit ton about peak ROH.

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Re: What are the essential 20-25 ROH matches?

Post by K. Hare » Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:22 am

Ferrante207 wrote:
K. Hare wrote:Roddy vs. Tanahashi last year should have been portrayed as a legendary match, but it was basically treated like any other match on the floor. But Roddy just covered in blood almost finishing off Tanahashi should be something the company references forever.
I was front row for this match and the crowd def did not help. Just treated it like a nice little showcase. Unsure if ROH's conditioning had to do with this. Tanahashi also does not have the "cool factor" of Okada/Nak with the western fans.
I was there, too, and completely disagree. By the end it was INSANE. Like, by the Roddy nearfall at the end, everyone was jumping up and down.

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Re: What are the essential 20-25 ROH matches?

Post by mrjoshdude » Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:55 pm

Joe Lanza wrote:The first War of the Worlds was pretty great, all I'm saying is that the shows have produced shockingly little in the way of big moments or iconic matches. Just look at the lists people have made here.
This is especially true when you look at the iconic matches/moments that have come out of other partnerships like NOAH, Dragon Gate, and CZW. The ball has really been dropped with this NJPW relationship.

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Re: What are the essential 20-25 ROH matches?

Post by itsberlo » Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:38 pm

K. Hare wrote:
Ferrante207 wrote:
K. Hare wrote:Roddy vs. Tanahashi last year should have been portrayed as a legendary match, but it was basically treated like any other match on the floor. But Roddy just covered in blood almost finishing off Tanahashi should be something the company references forever.
I was front row for this match and the crowd def did not help. Just treated it like a nice little showcase. Unsure if ROH's conditioning had to do with this. Tanahashi also does not have the "cool factor" of Okada/Nak with the western fans.
I was there, too, and completely disagree. By the end it was INSANE. Like, by the Roddy nearfall at the end, everyone was jumping up and down.
I traveled from Tennessee to Philly for both these shows and it was more of "we need to see these NJPW guys because when are we going to get to again?' feeling. I thought Roddy matches were great especially the Tanahashi match. I think for me ROH treated all these matches like exhibitions and that they would not have an effect on any of th3e wrestlers after the weekend was over. I think if they had promoted the Tanahashi/Roddy match as a once in a lifetime dream match and placed in the main event then maybe it would of had a different feel to it. There is something different in seeing the US/Puro pairing now compared to matches when Kobashi, KENTA, Liger etc. came in to wrestle as far as feel.

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Ferrante207
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Re: What are the essential 20-25 ROH matches?

Post by Ferrante207 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:47 pm

It's so funny how fallible memory can be/how different our reads of the crowd were. Me: meh, guy under me: bonkers, guy under him average. Full disclosure: 4 or 5 cocktails were consumed at that war of the worlds show.

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Re: What are the essential 20-25 ROH matches?

Post by DXvsNWO » Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:39 pm

There are so many great classic matches to pick from. For me, personally, I would definitely have the Generation Next/Embassy Steel Cage Warfare, as well as the Cage of Death from 2006, the first Ladder War from 2007, and the Kevin Steen/El Generico Unsanctioned Fight Without Honor from 2010 on my list. Love those four matches immensely. I could watch them back right now and still enjoy every second.

There are also matches that have a special place in my heart when it comes to ROH, even though they might not make a "Best 25 ROH Matches" list. Two of my all-time favorite ROH World Title Matches were the CM Punk/Christopher Daniels/Samoa Joe/James Gibson Four-Way Elimination Match from Redemption in 2005, and the Roderick Strong/Jay Briscoe from Only The Strong Survive in 2011. The former was just so awesome. I've always found it to be a perfect combination of great wrestling & storytelling (the whole "Summer of Punk" angle in general, but the little individual stories as well, as Punk had individual issues with all three guys, and you also had the history between Joe & Daniels). The latter, I thought, was fantastic, and might be the best match of Roddy's title reign, but that might depend on your opinions on the Davey Richards defense from Final Battle 2010. I had both at ****1/2, but if I had to pick, I might go with the Jay Briscoe match.

Another match that I've always enjoyed (some might say irrationally) is The No Remorse Corps & Matt Sydal vs. The Resilience & Delirious in an Eight-Man Philly Street Fight from Death Before Dishonor V: Night 2 in 2007. I don't know why, but I can watch that match a hundred times, and never get bored by it.
Joe Lanza wrote:For such a hot year he had, I'm seeing very little '15 Roddy. I know a lot of his great stuff was outside ROH, but still.
I would be willing to bet that many people don't watch the VOD shows (though that's just my opinion. Can't speak for everyone, obviously), and I think that's where the majority of Roddy's great singles work in 2015 from ROH was. His matches with Alberto El Patron (easily his best match in that short stint he had in ROH), Kyle O'Reilly, Tanahashi (which I saw live), Nakamura, Okada, and the fourth match with Lethal were all fantastic. He also had great matches with Adam Cole & Bobby Fish (from Chicago Ridge last September). Maybe the fact that most of those were on VOD caused the buzz for them to slow down, since the ROH takes their sweet time putting shows out (especially the show with the Tanahashi match).

Like I said, all of those matches were fantastic, but comparatively speaking, I don't see any of them making a "Best 25 ROH Matches" list. Certainly one of the best runs of Strong's career, but again, I don't see them making that list.
Joe Lanza wrote:For NJPW joint show stuff, I'd say Okada/RPG vs BC and the Bucks/reDRagon match from NYC would top the list.
I would definitely say that reDRagon/Young Bucks (another match I saw live) was probably the best match ever produced from the NJPW Joint Shows thus far. I could definitely see it being on my on "Best 25 ROH Matches" list (though I'm sure there will be a little bias from me since I saw it live). That CHAOS/Bullet Club trios match was fantastic as well. I'd also throw in the Bullet Club/Team ROH Ten-Man Tag, which I loved at the time. You could thrown in any of Strong's matches from the 2015 joint shows, but I think reDRagon/Young Bucks, CHAOS/Bullet Club, and Bullet Club/Team ROH are still the best three matches from the joint shows as a whole over the last three years.
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Re: What are the essential 20-25 ROH matches?

Post by supersonic » Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:28 am

Briscoes, Walters, & Rave vs. Evans, Shelley, Aries, Strong - Generation Next

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Re: What are the essential 20-25 ROH matches?

Post by InYourCase » Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:34 pm

Bryan Danielson vs. Low Ki vs. Christopher Daniels: 2/23/02
Low Ki vs. Amazing Red: 6/22/02
Low vs. Samoa Joe: 10/5/02
Homicide vs. Steve Corino: 8/16/03
Bryan Danielson vs. Samoa Joe: 10/2/04
Samoa Joe vs. CM Punk: 10/16/04
Samoa Joe vs. Austin Aries: 12/26/04
Austin Aries vs. CM Punk: 6/18/05
Samoa Joe vs. Kenta Kobashi: 10/1/05
Generation Next vs. The Embassy: 12/3/05
KENTA vs. Low Ki: 12/17/05
Blood Generation vs. Do FIXER: 3/31/06
Homicide vs. Necro Butcher: 5/13/06
Ring of Honor vs. Combat Zone Wrestling - Cage of Death: 7/15/06
Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness: 8/12/06
Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA: 9/16/06
Alex Shelley & Chris Sabin vs. The Briscoes: 4/28/07
Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness: 6/9/07
Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima: 8/25/07
Kevin Steen & El Generico vs. The Briscoes: 11/30/07
Typhoon vs. Muscle Outlawz: 3/29/08
KENTA vs. Nigel McGuinness: 3/21/09
Kevin Steen vs. El Generico: 12/18/10
Kevin Steen vs. Michael Elgin: 10/13/12
Jay Lethal vs. Jay Briscoe: 6/19/15

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Re: What are the essential 20-25 ROH matches?

Post by itsberlo » Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:38 pm

InYourCase wrote: Homicide vs. Steve Corino: 8/16/03

How did I forget this one? Good call Case!

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Re: What are the essential 20-25 ROH matches?

Post by InYourCase » Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:39 pm

itsberlo wrote:
InYourCase wrote: Homicide vs. Steve Corino: 8/16/03

How did I forget this one? Good call Case!
Almost included the barbed wire match, also. Love that series.

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