What are the essential 20-25 ROH matches?

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Joe Lanza
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What are the essential 20-25 ROH matches?

Post by Joe Lanza » Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:28 am

Crowd sourcing here. I think we all have blind spots and periods we haven't followed the company as closely as we did at other times.

I have some matches in mind, but I'd like to see what others say. The must see "you shouldn't be voting if you haven't seen these bouts" type stuff is what I'm looking for.

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itsberlo
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Re: What are the essential 20-25 ROH matches?

Post by itsberlo » Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:49 pm

To narrow these down to 20 to 25 is tough but here goes. In no particular order:

Low Ki vs KENTA Final Battle 2005
KENTA vs Bryan Danielsom Glory by Honor V 2006
Do Fixer vs Blood Generation Supercard of Honor 2006
CZW vs ROH (Cage of Death) Death before Dishonor IV 2006
Briscoes vs Steen/Generico (ladder match) Man Up 2007
AJ Styles vs Paul London Night of Grudges 2003
Low Ki vs Daniels vs Danielson Era of Honor Begins 2002
Samoa Joe vs Punk II 2004
Samoa Joe vs Kenta Kobashi 2005
Embassy vs Generation Next (cage match) Steel Cage Warfare 2005
CM Punk vs Austin Aries Death before Dishonor III 2005
Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuiness Unified 2005
Low Ki vs Bryan Danielson Round Robin Challenge 2002
Paul London vs Michael Shane Unscripted 2002
Paul London vs Bryan Danielson Epic Encounter 2003
Nigel McGuiness vs Austin Aries Rising Above 2007
Nigel McGuiness vs Tyler Black Take No Prisoners 2008
Samoa Joe vs Jay Briscoe (cage match) At Our Best 2004
Austin Aries vs Samoa Joe Final Battle 2004
Roderick Strong vs Bryan Danielson Vendetta 2005
CZW vs ROH 100th Show 2005
AJ Styles vs Paul London Night of Grudges 2003
Nigel McGuiness vs Jimmy Rave (Fight without Honor) Fifth Year Festival Finale 2007
Bryan Danielson vs Takeshi Morishima Manhattan Mayhem II 2007
El Generico vs Claudio Castagnoli Race to the Top Tournament Night 2 2007
Claudio Castagnoli vs Nigel McGuiness vs Bryan Danielson vs Tyler Black Death before Dishonor VI 2008

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Re: What are the essential 20-25 ROH matches?

Post by itsberlo » Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:50 pm

Joe Lanza wrote:Crowd sourcing here. I think we all have blind spots and periods we haven't followed the company as closely as we did at other times.

I have some matches in mind, but I'd like to see what others say. The must see "you shouldn't be voting if you haven't seen these bouts" type stuff is what I'm looking for.
A thread of sleeper matches may not be a bad idea either. It can give voters a way to see matches they overlooked and may influence them to rank someone higher than they had originally thought.

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Joe Lanza
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Re: What are the essential 20-25 ROH matches?

Post by Joe Lanza » Wed Jul 13, 2016 1:44 pm

That's a really good list. Interesting there is nothing post 2008.

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Re: What are the essential 20-25 ROH matches?

Post by mlev76 » Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:12 pm

itsberlo wrote:To narrow these down to 20 to 25 is tough but here goes. In no particular order:

Low Ki vs KENTA Final Battle 2005
KENTA vs Bryan Danielsom Glory by Honor V 2006
Do Fixer vs Blood Generation Supercard of Honor 2006
CZW vs ROH (Cage of Death) Death before Dishonor IV 2006
Briscoes vs Steen/Generico (ladder match) Man Up 2007
AJ Styles vs Paul London Night of Grudges 2003
Low Ki vs Daniels vs Danielson Era of Honor Begins 2002
Samoa Joe vs Punk II 2004
Samoa Joe vs Kenta Kobashi 2005
Embassy vs Generation Next (cage match) Steel Cage Warfare 2005
CM Punk vs Austin Aries Death before Dishonor III 2005
Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuiness Unified 2005
Low Ki vs Bryan Danielson Round Robin Challenge 2002
Paul London vs Michael Shane Unscripted 2002
Paul London vs Bryan Danielson Epic Encounter 2003
Nigel McGuiness vs Austin Aries Rising Above 2007
Nigel McGuiness vs Tyler Black Take No Prisoners 2008
Samoa Joe vs Jay Briscoe (cage match) At Our Best 2004
Austin Aries vs Samoa Joe Final Battle 2004
Roderick Strong vs Bryan Danielson Vendetta 2005
CZW vs ROH 100th Show 2005
AJ Styles vs Paul London Night of Grudges 2003
Nigel McGuiness vs Jimmy Rave (Fight without Honor) Fifth Year Festival Finale 2007
Bryan Danielson vs Takeshi Morishima Manhattan Mayhem II 2007
El Generico vs Claudio Castagnoli Race to the Top Tournament Night 2 2007
Claudio Castagnoli vs Nigel McGuiness vs Bryan Danielson vs Tyler Black Death before Dishonor VI 2008
Pre-09, I'd add:

Danielson vs. McGuinness (Unified)
Cage of Death (Death Before Dishonor IV)

'09 and on:

Briscoes vs. KOW-Big Bang '10
Black vs. Richards-Death Before Dishonor VIII
Strong vs. Richards-Final Battle '10
Generico vs. Steen-Final Battle '10
Richards vs. Edwards-BITW '11
Richards vs. Elgin-Showdown in the Sun Day 2
Steen vs. Elgin-Glory by Honor XI
Richards vs. Lethal-Glory by Honor XI
reDragon vs. Young Bucks-13th Anniversary Show
Briscoe vs. Lethal-BITW '15
Lethal vs. Strong-11/25/15 ROH TV

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Re: What are the essential 20-25 ROH matches?

Post by Tom Bobo » Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:15 pm

Here is a quick stab at some stuff after 2008 worth consideration:

Davey Richards vs. Bryan Danielson, The Final Countdown Tour: Boston- Boston, MA 9/25/09
Davey Richards vs. Austin Aries, Aries vs. Richards - Novi, MI 11/13/09

Davey Richards vs.Christopher Daniels, Richards Vs. Daniels- Chicago Ridge, IL 10/16/10
The Kings of Wrestling (Chris Hero & Claudio Castagnoli) vs. The American Wolves, Tag Title Classic II- Plymouth, MA- 12/17/10
Unsanctioned Fight Without Honor/Mask vs. ROH Career: El Generico vs. Kevin Steen, Final Battle 2010- New York, NY 12/18/10

Roderick Strong vs. Jay Briscoe, Only The Strong Survive- Charlotte, NC 1/15/11

Davey Richards vs. "Unbreakable" Michael Elgin, Showdown in the Sun: Day 2- Ft. Lauderdale, FL 3/31/12

reDRagon vs. The Young Bucks, ROH and NJPW Present WAR OF THE WORLDS- 5/17/14 Manhattan, NY

The Bullet Club vs. The Kingdom, Best in the World 2015- 6/19/15 Manhattan, NY

Roderick Strong vs. Jay Lethal, ROH TV Taping- 10/23/15 Kalamazoo, MI (air date was later)

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Re: What are the essential 20-25 ROH matches?

Post by supersonic » Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:43 pm

For TV era:

Tyler Black vs. Davey Richards - Death Before Dishonor VIII

Kevin Steen vs. El Generico - Final Battle 2010

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Re: What are the essential 20-25 ROH matches?

Post by JB Gremlin » Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:37 pm

It's an interesting discussion point, I rushed a list exclusively from memory trying to focus on the big stories as opposed to just posting the best 25 matches (Which, for me, would probably end up with about 18 matches from the end of 05-mid 07)

The only matches I had that haven't been mentioned were the Cole/ O'Reilly Hybrid Rules match from Best in the World 12 and the Homicide/ Bryan match from Final Battle 2006, again I don't think these are in the top 25 matches in ROH history (although they are both great) But I think they give us an idea of what the company was doing at the time and thus would be more useful as a guide than a dozen Danielson title defences (as great as they were).

In this vein I wanted to include something from the NJPW partnership because it's been such a big part of the companies story over the past 3 years, so I thought about it, and thought about it and the best I could come up with was the Okada & RPG V Bullet Club match from a taping last year. Now, I still haven't "researched" anything so there might be something obvious I'm missing here (Last years 5 on 5 was great and Steen/ Nak had a good match) but what are everyone's top matches from the joint shows?

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Re: What are the essential 20-25 ROH matches?

Post by supersonic » Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:42 pm

Jay Briscoe vs. Jay Lethal - Best in the World 2015

Jay Lethal vs. AJ Styles - Final Battle 2015

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Re: What are the essential 20-25 ROH matches?

Post by Joe Lanza » Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:02 pm

For such a hot year he had, I'm seeing very little '15 Roddy. I know a lot of his great stuff was outside ROH, but still.

For NJPW joint show stuff, I'd say Okada/RPG vs BC and the Bucks/reDRagon match from NYC would top the list.

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Re: What are the essential 20-25 ROH matches?

Post by wac » Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:19 pm

itsberlo wrote:To narrow these down to 20 to 25 is tough but here goes. In no particular order:

Low Ki vs KENTA Final Battle 2005
KENTA vs Bryan Danielsom Glory by Honor V 2006
Do Fixer vs Blood Generation Supercard of Honor 2006
CZW vs ROH (Cage of Death) Death before Dishonor IV 2006
Briscoes vs Steen/Generico (ladder match) Man Up 2007
AJ Styles vs Paul London Night of Grudges 2003
Low Ki vs Daniels vs Danielson Era of Honor Begins 2002
Samoa Joe vs Punk II 2004
Samoa Joe vs Kenta Kobashi 2005
Embassy vs Generation Next (cage match) Steel Cage Warfare 2005
CM Punk vs Austin Aries Death before Dishonor III 2005
Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuiness Unified 2005
Low Ki vs Bryan Danielson Round Robin Challenge 2002
Paul London vs Michael Shane Unscripted 2002
Paul London vs Bryan Danielson Epic Encounter 2003
Nigel McGuiness vs Austin Aries Rising Above 2007
Nigel McGuiness vs Tyler Black Take No Prisoners 2008
Samoa Joe vs Jay Briscoe (cage match) At Our Best 2004
Austin Aries vs Samoa Joe Final Battle 2004
Roderick Strong vs Bryan Danielson Vendetta 2005
CZW vs ROH 100th Show 2005
AJ Styles vs Paul London Night of Grudges 2003
Nigel McGuiness vs Jimmy Rave (Fight without Honor) Fifth Year Festival Finale 2007
Bryan Danielson vs Takeshi Morishima Manhattan Mayhem II 2007
El Generico vs Claudio Castagnoli Race to the Top Tournament Night 2 2007
Claudio Castagnoli vs Nigel McGuiness vs Bryan Danielson vs Tyler Black Death before Dishonor VI 2008
Hard to argue with this list.

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Re: What are the essential 20-25 ROH matches?

Post by JB Gremlin » Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:22 pm

Joe Lanza wrote:For such a hot year he had, I'm seeing very little '15 Roddy. I know a lot of his great stuff was outside ROH, but still.

For NJPW joint show stuff, I'd say Okada/RPG vs BC and the Bucks/reDRagon match from NYC would top the list.
Yep, I had the Bucks and reDRagon match on my list, although it's on a joint show I don't necessarily see it as a match that came out of the partnership simply because ROH booked those 4 guys, and that match, without NJPW's help. The Bullet Club six man on the other hand, was very obviously booked because of the New Japan partnership. My point really being, it drives home the idea that while it's great to have the New Japan guys around and it does produce enjoyable shows it won't produce the big important moments that we'll remember in ten years! I can still remember so much of what I loved on the 2006 cards, especially the main events, yet 2014-now I struggle to really pick something that stands out as a must watch to show you what ROH was/is in this era. (To touch on your other point, I think Roddy is a victim of this too and that's why, despite his super hot 2015, you really can't pinpoint something that MUST be seen.)

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Re: What are the essential 20-25 ROH matches?

Post by Joe Lanza » Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:25 pm

JB Gremlin wrote:
Joe Lanza wrote:For such a hot year he had, I'm seeing very little '15 Roddy. I know a lot of his great stuff was outside ROH, but still.

For NJPW joint show stuff, I'd say Okada/RPG vs BC and the Bucks/reDRagon match from NYC would top the list.
Yep, I had the Bucks and reDRagon match on my list, although it's on a joint show I don't necessarily see it as a match that came out of the partnership simply because ROH booked those 4 guys, and that match, without NJPW's help. The Bullet Club six man on the other hand, was very obviously booked because of the New Japan partnership. My point really being, it drives home the idea that while it's great to have the New Japan guys around and it does produce enjoyable shows it won't produce the big important moments that we'll remember in ten years! I can still remember so much of what I loved on the 2006 cards, especially the main events, yet 2014-now I struggle to really pick something that stands out as a must watch to show you what ROH was/is in this era.
The problem with the ROH/NJPW thing producing big memorable moments is that ROH can't match NJPW's star power right now. What is the obvious mega match that they haven't done? There isn't one, because ROH doesn't have a hypothetical Joe to put up against a hypothetical Kobashi.

The shows obviously do good business, but it speaks volumes that arguably two of the best matches are bouts that NJPW could have done themselves in Korakuen Hall.

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Re: What are the essential 20-25 ROH matches?

Post by wac » Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:34 pm

Joe Lanza wrote:For such a hot year he had, I'm seeing very little '15 Roddy. I know a lot of his great stuff was outside ROH, but still.

For NJPW joint show stuff, I'd say Okada/RPG vs BC and the Bucks/reDRagon match from NYC would top the list.
Strong/KUSHIDA and Strong/Tanahashi were both excellent, Strong/Nakamura and Strong/Okada were very good as well.

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Re: What are the essential 20-25 ROH matches?

Post by wac » Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:37 pm

2015 Roderick Strong didn't have the aura of 2005 Samoa Joe, but they put him in there against every New Japan ace and he crushed it every time. I still don't fully understand how he made that leap at that particular point in his career.

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