New Japan Cup 2016

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Alan4L
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Re: New Japan Cup 2016

Post by Alan4L » Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:34 pm

Goat wrote:I've said this elsewhere but I can't disagree more with that Ibushi vs Shibata idea. If New Japan uses Ibushi in any meaningful way they'd be better off booking him a plane ticket to Orlando than booking him in any matches. It'd be a more efficient way to get to the obvious ending.
wait what? so just don't bother using him? If you're resigned to him going to NXT (which you seem to be) then why not just get a few good matches out of him before then? I'm not saying he should beat Shibata. Obviously with him not be locked up, they'll be hesitant with giving him big wins over guys.

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Goat
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Re: New Japan Cup 2016

Post by Goat » Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:00 pm

If I were running New Japan I would not use him. Kidani was right in how awful it would be for that company for the perception that they are all but in name WWE's minor league to take hold.

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Joe Lanza
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Re: New Japan Cup 2016

Post by Joe Lanza » Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:19 pm

I would book Ibushi on every big show I could until he was no longer willing to do them. I'd make Omega beating Ibushi at some point a priority. If Ibushi can go in April, that's be my Invasion Attack semi main. Perfect complimentary drawing match for Tokyo, especially if it's Okada vs Nagata or Kojima, which would require a massive set of balls to do right now without something huge underneath.

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GuestTimekeeper
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Re: New Japan Cup 2016

Post by GuestTimekeeper » Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:23 pm

I'm going to pick a left field pick. There's no obvious contenders for the three singles belts, so I'm going to go with Goto. He's won the cup three times before. He needs a direction, and a fued with Shibata for the NEVER title might be good. Unless he's ROH TV champ by then.

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Rich Kraetsch
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Re: New Japan Cup 2016

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:35 pm

Sign-ups for the New Japan Cup 2016 pick'em contest are now live at http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2016/0 ... em-contest. Thanks once again to IVPVideos for sponsoring our prizes!

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Goat
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Re: New Japan Cup 2016

Post by Goat » Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:37 pm

Joe Lanza wrote:I would book Ibushi on every big show I could until he was no longer willing to do them. I'd make Omega beating Ibushi at some point a priority. If Ibushi can go in April, that's be my Invasion Attack semi main. Perfect complimentary drawing match for Tokyo, especially if it's Okada vs Nagata or Kojima, which would require a massive set of balls to do right now without something huge underneath.
You don't think it would terrible for the perception of New Japan to do this and then have Ibushi go to WWE?

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Joe Lanza
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Re: New Japan Cup 2016

Post by Joe Lanza » Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:43 pm

Goat wrote:
Joe Lanza wrote:I would book Ibushi on every big show I could until he was no longer willing to do them. I'd make Omega beating Ibushi at some point a priority. If Ibushi can go in April, that's be my Invasion Attack semi main. Perfect complimentary drawing match for Tokyo, especially if it's Okada vs Nagata or Kojima, which would require a massive set of balls to do right now without something huge underneath.
You don't think it would terrible for the perception of New Japan to do this and then have Ibushi go to WWE?
No, not after he already declared freelance, and especially if they are using him less than part time.

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pol
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Re: New Japan Cup 2016

Post by pol » Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:44 pm

Alan4L wrote:To me it's either Nagata or Kojima winning following Nagata's promo in Osaka.
Like how Shibata was going to win in 2014 after Okada's promo on him? :)

I think they like to plant seeds to make you think things like that.

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ssindelman
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Re: New Japan Cup 2016

Post by ssindelman » Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:38 pm

pol wrote:
Alan4L wrote:To me it's either Nagata or Kojima winning following Nagata's promo in Osaka.
Like how Shibata was going to win in 2014 after Okada's promo on him? :)

I think they like to plant seeds to make you think things like that.
All Nagata's promo did was make him possibly challenge down the line...but winning the NJ Cup should be about propping up new guard. And who better than the guy they just signed for 2 years -- Big Mike Elgin.

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Alan4L
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Re: New Japan Cup 2016

Post by Alan4L » Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:02 pm

pol wrote:
Alan4L wrote:To me it's either Nagata or Kojima winning following Nagata's promo in Osaka.
Like how Shibata was going to win in 2014 after Okada's promo on him? :)

I think they like to plant seeds to make you think things like that.
I agree with you in theory but in this instance I don't see any alternative. Maaaaaaaybe Tanahashi but I really feel it's going to be the Okada title on the line at Sumo Hall and I don't envision Tanahashi vs Okada.

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greenmanRD
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Re: New Japan Cup 2016

Post by greenmanRD » Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:51 pm

I just don't buy Elgin as a World Title draw and Okada needs challengers. I think the winner of the NJ Cup has to challenge for the World Title and Elgin just isn't ready for that. I expect them to make him look strong here, and winning at least one match over Tenzan will happen. I'm not sure what they'll do with him because I'm not sure him losing to Fale makes much sense because Fale's not going anywhere and I can't imagine he'd be the one to challenge Okada. I tentatively think Big Mike gets through Tenzan and Fale, but loses in the semis.

I'm hardly convinced that Tanahashi wins in R1, let alone the entire tournament. Like I get that he hasn't won it since 2008, but what title is he going for? Are they really going to run Tana/Omega as the main event again so quickly? I actually toyed with Goto for a little bit, but I just don't think the timing is right and he just challenged for the IWGP Title. Him challenging Omega isn't out of the question, but I think that's something they can hold off until later and it's not really a Sumo Hall main event. I think Goto continues to descend toward rock bottom, don't think he's quite there yet.

It's the bottom half of the bracket that is confusing to me as I see a variety of options they could go with. I figured Naito would be a shoe in here but it doesn't feel like the right time to pull the trigger on Naito/Okada. So that leaves things open. I kind of like the idea of Naito laying low until the G1, then springing up as the contender for Okada at the Tokyo Dome. The only problem now though is what do they do to get to that point. FWIW, I have Kojima winning the New Japan Cup right now over Nagata in the Final, though I may change it before I submit my bracket because I don't like it that much.

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greenmanRD
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Re: New Japan Cup 2016

Post by greenmanRD » Tue Feb 23, 2016 4:49 pm

Alan4L wrote:Tonga is surely beating Makabe right? Ahead of the tag title match.

To me it's either Nagata or Kojima winning following Nagata's promo in Osaka. Nagata vs. Okada would be a special match in Sumo Hall. Would love to be there for it. They can do a Tanahashi/Omega tag on the undercard where Tana scores a pin to set up a title challenge for Dontaku.

Curious if Ibushi is going to be used at Invasion Attack. If he is, a singles vs. Shibata for the NEVER feels like it could work.

With all that said, here's my dream Invasion Attack card:

Okada vs. Nagata
Shibata vs. Ibushi
Omega & Bucks vs. Tanahashi, Elgin & Liger (NEVER 6 Man)
GBH vs. Tonga & Mystery Man
KUSHIDA vs. Kamaitachi
Sydal & Ricochet vs. reDRagon

plus other stuff

I think that's a deep enough undercard that they could draw at Sumo Hall with that lineup. It won't be the best attendance ever but it'd be acceptable.
I believe Ibushi announced that he was cleared to wrestle by mid-March, so the timeline makes sense. I get why people would be hesitant to want to use him given that he's freelance now and could just as easily sign with WWE if he was offered, but that would make all the more sense to bring him in and do the job for someone they need to get over. Ibushi would still be mega over and they can easily run Tana/Omega, Okada/Naito for Osaka and boom, there's your big summer card.

The only thing I'm hesitant on though for running Okada/Naito in Osaka is that I feel like that should happen at the Dome, and they could still run that at the Dome if they wanted to but it isn't that common for them to run that match in June, then at the next Kingdom, hasn't happened since Dominion 2012 and WK 7. Granted, with the heat they could get to surround Okada/Naito with the Ingobernables, a rematch is certainly possible.

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H.U.S.T.L.E.
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Re: New Japan Cup 2016

Post by H.U.S.T.L.E. » Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:02 pm

greenmanRD wrote:I just don't buy Elgin as a World Title draw and Okada needs challengers. I think the winner of the NJ Cup has to challenge for the World Title and Elgin just isn't ready for that. I expect them to make him look strong here, and winning at least one match over Tenzan will happen. I'm not sure what they'll do with him because I'm not sure him losing to Fale makes much sense because Fale's not going anywhere and I can't imagine he'd be the one to challenge Okada. I tentatively think Big Mike gets through Tenzan and Fale, but loses in the semis.
Why isn't Elgin ready for that? Honestly, I don't see how putting Elgin in a main event against Okada is much different than AJ Styles challenging for the IWGP title in his first match in the company. If anything, it might be a safer play because Elgin is actually over with the audience prior to a title shot.

If the argument is that Elgin is seen by the audience right now as a mid-carder and his credibility isn't there yet... well, isn't winning New Japan Cup a pretty good springboard to credible challenger? We've seen NJPW take risks and stick with a plan before even if it hurts business short term. If there was ever a time to take short term hits in order to build new stars in New Japan, that time is absolutely right now.

STAP.
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Re: New Japan Cup 2016

Post by STAP. » Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:12 pm

Goat wrote:
Joe Lanza wrote:I would book Ibushi on every big show I could until he was no longer willing to do them. I'd make Omega beating Ibushi at some point a priority. If Ibushi can go in April, that's be my Invasion Attack semi main. Perfect complimentary drawing match for Tokyo, especially if it's Okada vs Nagata or Kojima, which would require a massive set of balls to do right now without something huge underneath.
You don't think it would terrible for the perception of New Japan to do this and then have Ibushi go to WWE?
If Ibushi thinks NJPW/DDT schedules are rough, I doubt he could survive the E.

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greenmanRD
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Re: New Japan Cup 2016

Post by greenmanRD » Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:03 am

H.U.S.T.L.E. wrote:
greenmanRD wrote:I just don't buy Elgin as a World Title draw and Okada needs challengers. I think the winner of the NJ Cup has to challenge for the World Title and Elgin just isn't ready for that. I expect them to make him look strong here, and winning at least one match over Tenzan will happen. I'm not sure what they'll do with him because I'm not sure him losing to Fale makes much sense because Fale's not going anywhere and I can't imagine he'd be the one to challenge Okada. I tentatively think Big Mike gets through Tenzan and Fale, but loses in the semis.
Why isn't Elgin ready for that? Honestly, I don't see how putting Elgin in a main event against Okada is much different than AJ Styles challenging for the IWGP title in his first match in the company. If anything, it might be a safer play because Elgin is actually over with the audience prior to a title shot.

If the argument is that Elgin is seen by the audience right now as a mid-carder and his credibility isn't there yet... well, isn't winning New Japan Cup a pretty good springboard to credible challenger? We've seen NJPW take risks and stick with a plan before even if it hurts business short term. If there was ever a time to take short term hits in order to build new stars in New Japan, that time is absolutely right now.
There's a difference between bringing in an outsider to challenge for the title their first shot in the company and having someone on the roster for 6 months and wrestle as a mid carder. They can elevate Elgin but they just penned him to a 2 year deal, but if anything, there's no need to rush him and they can build him up slower.

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