G1 CLIMAX 28

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greenmanRD
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Re: G1 CLIMAX 28

Post by greenmanRD » Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:55 pm

I don't mind some shenanigans in this tournament, especially for the characters it's been used for. White has to use the antics to beat Okada and Tanahashi, and he is becoming NJPW's ultimate opportunist. He has been established as a prick with no honor, so might as well keep that rolling. I am very curious about this Fale/White match that we will eventually get. Who plays the babyface? White? I just don't see how he can even be cheered lol.

The establishment of the Firing Squad is essentially going back to the Bullet Club's original roots of interfering, and I think establishing that is pretty important. That said, I think we'll see that die down later in the tournament once Tonga and Fale are clearly out of contention.

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OptionZero
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Re: G1 CLIMAX 28

Post by OptionZero » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:46 pm

Caught Page/Elgin, Fale/Okada and Tanahashi/White from Night 3. Once again, Block A is disappointing, particularly in the main event

Page/Elgin was a terrific, high impact brawl. Both men worked hard, with Page eating insane bombs from Elgin and fighting on. This will raise his stock as a dude fighting to make a name for himself in NJPW.

Fale/okada was utterly predictable. Fale control period with brawling and chicanery, Okada comeback, then more interference for the win. Not much to say here, totally skippable.

White/Tanahashi. This is gonna get tiresome. White has mainly dodged the intense "closing stretches" that raise NJPW main events to the next level, and the lack of really high end exchanges in his matches mean they have never reached that "next level" that separates the best stuff from just being average. The low blows and chair crap sorta takes the air out of matches. I suppose it establishes White as a son of a bitch, but is it helping his credibility as a main event player? Thats the problem with this approach - he's getting wins, but not cleanly enough to earn respect as a top level guy

I also have to criticize tanahashi. How many times are we gonna see this limb work pattern? Heel attacks his leg and he sells all sorts of damage . . . until he attacks his opponents leg and there's a miraculous comeback. The problem in this match is that there were three very distinct periods - White's control attacking the leg, Tanahashi control in come back, then white back in control, followed by the ref bump and shenanigans. There weren't smooth transitions or counters - he changed momentum with like . . . a punch. Pretty uninspired to me.

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Ferrante207
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Re: G1 CLIMAX 28

Post by Ferrante207 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:15 pm

We are not going to get the classic all action sprint, with tons of counters and brutal moves that the g1 is known for from jay white. Jay White the character cut a promo at the end of today's show mocking fighting spirit and essentially saying "this style is dumb, I'm here to win". This is some truly meta shit here. I love it, but realize his big main event matches will not be super great from a work-rate standpoint. This is some of the best storytelling NJPW has done in a while. I do think White will be forced into big main event style empty the clip matches later in the tourney.

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Tigerkinney
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Re: G1 CLIMAX 28

Post by Tigerkinney » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:34 pm

Finally caught up with the New Japan stuff :)

I think we know why Taichi didn't get a spot in the tournament, because with White and the Tonga led faction of the Bullet Club Bullshitting their way to victory every night, having Taichi in there would have been overkill. Actually it already is overkill.

Oh well at least ZSJ vs Ibushi and Omega vs Naito on Night 2 delivered.

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Tigerkinney
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Re: G1 CLIMAX 28

Post by Tigerkinney » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:52 pm

OptionZero wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:46 pm
White/Tanahashi. This is gonna get tiresome. White has mainly dodged the intense "closing stretches" that raise NJPW main events to the next level, and the lack of really high end exchanges in his matches mean they have never reached that "next level" that separates the best stuff from just being average. The low blows and chair crap sorta takes the air out of matches. I suppose it establishes White as a son of a bitch, but is it helping his credibility as a main event player? Thats the problem with this approach - he's getting wins, but not cleanly enough to earn respect as a top level guy

I'm not normally one to step onto the question Gedo bandwagon, but I don't think the way he's booking White is helping his credibility as a main eventer. Perhaps Gedo is too afraid to put White over big names such as Okada and Tanahashi cleanly, because they feel the fans aren't fully buying into him yet? If the aim is to establish White as a midcard heel act, then fine this is an acceptable approach for establishing the 'Switchblade' but if the aim is to convince fans that he's a future main eventer, then these cheap wins aren't really helping.

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Leo C
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Re: G1 CLIMAX 28

Post by Leo C » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:18 pm

I would be considerably less upset with these chair spots in the G1 if, at least, they bumped or distracted the ref in a decent manner beforehand. I hate it when guys just start randomly hugging the ref and pushing him into the ropes, stuff like White just pushing Red Shoes with the chair before trying to attack Okada, and White and Tanahashi both just swinging at each other inside the ring also in front of Red Shoes. I know this happens all the time but it just looks so damn dumb. If they could at least make the rules a little bit clearer - maybe objects are illegal only inside the ring (stupid rule, but at least would bring some consistency), implement a foul system, do anything. I'm tired of NJPW refs looking absolutely retarded. I can live with, for example, Fale attempting to enter the ring with a chair for Loa to attack Okada on the outside. That's fine. White backhanding the ref while in the Rainmaker was great (hadn't Jay just hit the ref himself with a chair like a minute earlier).

If it's just a goofy spot in the beginning of EVIL matches or something for Minoru to waste 5 minutes in random Road To tag matches, I can live with weapons being used and nothing coming of it. But if we're going to have major angles and characters that revolve around chair shots and similar things they have to resolve this situation.

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Frank Olson
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Re: G1 CLIMAX 28

Post by Frank Olson » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:18 am

Elgin vs. Page was definitely my favorite match of Day 3. There wasn't really any notable story to it or anything, but it was just nonstop action between two guys who have really good chemistry (which I guess they must have established during their time together in Ring of Honor). Perhaps it went a bit longer than it needed to, but I really liked how it felt like these guys were both so determined not to lose. It was also the only match today that didn't involve anyone getting hit with a chair or ref bumps or interference or anything like that, so that helped it stand out from the pack.

EVIL vs. YOSHI-HASHI was a very good match that I think suffered a bit by immediately following the Elgin/Page match. It was a less impressive version of the same type of fast-paced competitive brawl. Still a good match though.

Makabe vs. Suzuki was a fun brawl. Makabe has been surprisingly high energy so far in this tournament. The crowd brawling, chair shots, and ref bumps got really old by the end of this show, but I think these two did the best job with that stuff. Their match felt legitimately out of control at times, which is what you want in this type of match.

Fale vs. Okada was disappointing. I like Fale more than most, and he's had some really good matches with Okada (especially Invasion Attack 2015 and G1 2016), but this was not a great performance from him. I agree with what rollup and others said earlier in this thread, I'm already tired of the Bullet Club OG interference and the storyline stuff. It's amazing how quickly the Tongans have killed my interest in their rivalry with the Being the Elite side of their faction.

White vs. Tanahashi was a good but not great main event. I definitely liked it better than their Wrestle Kingdom match, but the ref bumps, chair shots, and low blows really didn't have much impact for me here after seeing similar stuff in the previous three matches. Tanahashi's leg selling was the best aspect of the match

Bloodbuzz Bunk
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Re: G1 CLIMAX 28

Post by Bloodbuzz Bunk » Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:01 pm

Tigerkinney wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:52 pm
OptionZero wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:46 pm
White/Tanahashi. This is gonna get tiresome. White has mainly dodged the intense "closing stretches" that raise NJPW main events to the next level, and the lack of really high end exchanges in his matches mean they have never reached that "next level" that separates the best stuff from just being average. The low blows and chair crap sorta takes the air out of matches. I suppose it establishes White as a son of a bitch, but is it helping his credibility as a main event player? Thats the problem with this approach - he's getting wins, but not cleanly enough to earn respect as a top level guy

I'm not normally one to step onto the question Gedo bandwagon, but I don't think the way he's booking White is helping his credibility as a main eventer. Perhaps Gedo is too afraid to put White over big names such as Okada and Tanahashi cleanly, because they feel the fans aren't fully buying into him yet? If the aim is to establish White as a midcard heel act, then fine this is an acceptable approach for establishing the 'Switchblade' but if the aim is to convince fans that he's a future main eventer, then these cheap wins aren't really helping.
I think Gedo is just driving home that Jay is “Main Event Heel!!!”. All this avoidance of strike battles and hot closing stretches for ref bumps, low blows and chair antics is functioning as flashing audenice sign saying “boooooo”. They didn’t have to do these tactics in the US title run because White used his promos to get over how much of a dick he is( I think San Francisco confirmed that). I do think the language barrier is slowing down that absorption hence the over the top heel antics. Hopefully those antics will slow down some now that he is past the two biggest stars in his block but I wouldn’t be surprised if Gedo hammers that home until the final A block night.

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ThommyGunn
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Re: G1 CLIMAX 28

Post by ThommyGunn » Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:03 pm

Ferrante207 wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:15 pm
This is some of the best storytelling NJPW has done in a while. I do think White will be forced into big main event style empty the clip matches later in the tourney.
Yes, this is a great point. Regardless of what White is doing now, when he does get the big Heavyweight title shot or G1 final he's gonna be pulled into the classic style. I think this company knows exactly what they are doing.

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rollup
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Re: G1 CLIMAX 28

Post by rollup » Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:48 pm

well , if he had gotten two clean pins over Okada and Tanahashi back to back , White would get the "he is getting pushed way too soon" murmur. Also if he actually cleanly beats two of the top stars back to back its going to be hard to treat him as a dirty heel. So i get what they doing , though i am still getting used to his matches

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mrjoshdude
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Re: G1 CLIMAX 28

Post by mrjoshdude » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:46 am

The difference for me between Jay White's matches and Bad Luck Fale/Tama Tonga's matches this G1 has been that the stuff in Jay's match feels like part of the match. When Jay goes for the chair it's still a part of the narrative the match is telling as a whole, you see stuff like him missing, his opponent using it, Jay gets desperate and hits a low blow and so on. With the Tongan's matches it feels like it interrupts and abruptly ends things. It has no part in the actual story of the match, all it is is Tama Tonga running in at the end and giving a Gun Stun to whoever Fale's opponent is and then that's the end. I get what they're trying to do with them but I just find it makes watching the match pointless. Why does the struggle between Fale and Okada matter to me when I know in 10 minutes Tama is just gonna interfere and Fale will win or be DQ'd as a result.

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armsofsleep
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Re: G1 CLIMAX 28

Post by armsofsleep » Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:34 pm

Night 3 might be one of my least favorite G1 days in a while, especially this early in the tournament. The only match I had over *** was Elgin/Hangman, and even that I wasn't in love with. I'm like, somewhat okay with Jay White using bullshit ref bump dumb shit in all of his matches, but only if there isn't another match RIGHT BEFORE IT that also has tons of bullshit interference. I fear that Fale and White (and Tonga) will pull this shit all tournament, and that's just not for me.

Elgin/Hangman - ***1/2

YOSHI-HASHI/EVIL - **

Suzuki/Makabe -***

Okada/Fale - **1/4

Tana/White - **1/2

save_us_b_block.gedo

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EvilJason
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Re: G1 CLIMAX 28

Post by EvilJason » Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:43 pm

At several different points during the White/Tanahashi match you could hear and feel the crowd heating up and you just know they wanted to get into it but White's shenanigans killed them stone dead each time. I don't think the wins over Okada and Tana do a great deal for him because of how they occurred.

I understand that this is just the 1st phase of how NJPW builds their top guys, establishing a character foundation and then after that's embedded they can wrestle like real NJPW headliners but I just think in 2018 shenanigans and interference do nothing to get a guy over.

It's fine if you have maybe 1 guy or at a push 2 doing it in the tournament but you could say there's like 5 guys relying on these cheap heat shortcuts and it's dragging things down a bit. When it's been good (Ibushi/ZSJ, Naito/Omega, Page/Elgin) it's been insane but the low points (Fale, Tama Tonga, White's closing stretches ect.) Have been lower than I think the norm usually is for a G1.

Bloodbuzz Bunk
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Re: G1 CLIMAX 28

Post by Bloodbuzz Bunk » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:23 pm

Now that I’m caught up I will give my own personal but meaningless take and ranking on every match:

1) Omega v Naito 4.75 Stars: Awesome from start to finish. The growing disdain between these two stars emerging from Okada’s shadow over these last three G1s is remarkable storytelling. Going back to the 2016 match there was nothing personal just the prize of winning the block at stake and then last year Naito had to redeem himself against Omega to finally get a chance at avenging his WK ghosts. This year it’s extremely personal and the mocking of each other’s poses and hard hitting nature was intense. Loved the callback to last year’s final when Naito faked out Kenny by pretending to hit his rolling pose but actually hitting the suicide dive( also good on KK for catching it and pointing it out on commentary). I loved that Kenny has solved the Destino now and I hope Naito develops a super finisher just for the likes of Okada and Omega. There was just a little something extra that it missed that I can’t articulate that keeps it from a 5 rating for me.

2) ZSJ v Kota Ibushi 4.5 stars: These guys have got a floor of 4.5 I think as that’s what I have given everyone of their matches. I love that Sabre frustrates Kota like no one else can in the ring because Kota sells it on his face perfectly. He just hates wrestling this dude. Sabre busted out some sweet counters and new submission variations this go round which always adds spice to his matches after awhile. Also love how Sabre never stops moving even when he is locked up on the mat, it just keeps things from getting stale. It does seem like the ZSJ gives back his NJC wins story is going to unfold and cost him the block.

3) Hangman v Elgin 4.25 Stars: Everyone is underselling this match and how crazy invested the crowd got. I feel like Elgin( despite his personal faults) has really upped his game since he lost the weight and it shows with the increased pace and high spot flexibility in his matches. Page really shined here as well going toe to toe with Mike and taking a beating for it. Page didn’t get to hit all his big spots( moonsault to the outside, that deadlift pumphandle, or the buck shot lariat) and still got super over. Also check Page’s backstage comments because they are tremendous. He is vulnerable and panicked that he hasn’t gotten a “real” win yet and that he is gonna flop. He is terrified of letting the BC, Chono, and the NJPW/ROH’s Office’s down and it’s the most relatable and compelling he has ever been. He is worried and desperate about facing Okada and it’s just so human and raw.

4) Sanada v Goto 4 Stars: Another undersold match imo. Both guys showed that you can work a slower pace and still deliver. They didn’t sprint but they ran at 3/5th’s speex until the tremendous finishing stretch. Hell Sanada busted out his spring board dropkick spot in the first minute and he combined his leapfrog leading to dropkick spot with his beautiful slingshot crossbody which is the kind of creativity I have craved from Sanada for years and he is finally starting to show it. Goto using the top rope like a magic killer( Evil and Sanada’s tag finisher) to stop Sanada from wriggling out of the GTR is next level stuff. Would love to see a 25 minute title match main event version of this.

5) Jay White v Hiroshi Tanahashi 4 Stars: Jay White the heel is getting over so well and while I would appreciate better finishing stretches, I think this one had at least a small one and injected enough hope for Tana that the crowd was way more invested than the Okada match. Tans also sold brilliantly and didn’t miraculously heal his leg at the end like he does at times. Love White’s petulant aggression when he just slams guys repeatedly into barricades, the apron or the turnbuckle. Really suits White’s character.

The rest of the matches were all in that 3( Juice v Tama, well worked but awful pace) to high 3 star range.

A Couple of Notes on those matches:
- I like Yoshi-Hashi’s battle for relevance story. The look is improved( no staff!) and he is working hard. Just don’t dump Evil to the floor man. I expect him to rally to 6 points by the end of the G1 with like 3 spoiler wins in a row now.
- Tama Tonga is a lost cause
- Fale even further lost cause.
- Okada’s crisis is entertaining enough but I miss the competent rainmaker.
Last edited by Bloodbuzz Bunk on Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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greenmanRD
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Re: G1 CLIMAX 28

Post by greenmanRD » Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:11 pm

The Tama/Omega match is going to be very interesting, part of me thinks Tama has to win but the other part of me thinks he's freaking Tama Tonga. Why does he need to beat the IWGP champ.

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