NJPW (Discussion)

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Weirzbowski
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Weirzbowski » Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:57 am

I'm hyped for all the secondary single title matches at WK. I hope they get all the time they deserve.
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SgtBilko84
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by SgtBilko84 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:21 pm

Was at a Meet and Greet for a very strange Something Wrestle Podcast show with a wrestling show in between yesterday in the UK. It was dreadful tbh but saved completely by Cody being a really really pleasant person. I asked him if it was gonna be Ibushi vs Ospreay and he said yes and that the plan was for him was to wrestle Juice. So he's got 1 right already. He also spoke highly of Joe and Rich too. Using their names when I joked about being a VOW fan and he said we were all cool now.

So
Omega vs Tana
Okada vs White
Jericho vs Naito
Ospreay vs Ibushi
Kushida vs Ishimori
ZSJ vs Ishii
GOD vs EVIL/Sanada vs Bucks
R3K vs Despi/Kanemaru vs LIJ
Cody vs Juice

That's not even mentioning the trios title. There are a lot of names not on that card can't just stick them in The Ramble

That card looks insane

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Ckkj14
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Ckkj14 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:09 pm

Greatest wrestling card ever

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Frank Olson
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Frank Olson » Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:02 pm

I think we all knew that the World Tag League tournament results were ultimately not going to matter and that The Young Bucks would ultimately wind up inserting themselves into the Wrestle Kingdom Tag Title match. So I wasn't really upset or anything when they came out at the end of the show. But Matt Jackson's promo justifying their challenge was so weak. Instead of explaining that they beat EVIL and SANADA twice earlier this year and therefore were more deserving of a title shot than the tournament winners (an argument that would at least sort of make sense despite the situation still being lame) Jackson basically said that they deserve the title shot because they've been working hard for their whole careers. Which...I mean...any other team on this roster could make that same argument. And those other teams wouldn't have taken the whole last month off to be with their families or whatever. I guess that type of promo would've been okay if the Bucks were clearly supposed to the whiny heels in this situation, but it sure seemed like they were expecting to get cheers when Matt said that line about them “grinding for 15 years” or whatever.

The thing with the Elite guys is that while some of them are undoubtedly great workers (I would say that Omega and The Young Bucks have strong enough bodies of work to be considered among the best wrestlers in the world) they also seem to have this weird entitled attitude where they think that they can rest on their laurels and not do much for the last several months of the year and yet somehow deserve more credit for New Japan's success than the guys who are actually there day in and day out, many of whom are equally if not more over than the Elite wrestlers are, at least with the company's primary native audience. Again, if this was strictly a character thing and was clearly presented as a heel character trait I wouldn't have a problem with it, but it often seems like these guys are genuinely clueless about how obnoxious they seem.

I was thinking about all of that during the Tanahashi/Finjuice/Taguchi vs. Elite match. In a bubble it was a pretty entertaining match, at least for people like me who enjoy the goofiness of Taguchi. But was this light comedy match really the best way to build to the main event of the biggest show of the year? It's nice that these guys are having fun and everything, but there's already been so little actual build to Omega vs. Tanahashi that it seemed to me like a waste to just have them going through the motions of Taguchi Japan/Elite antics.

Ulimately the Elite guys just feel like they are doing their own thing and I can't say that I'll miss them when they are gone (assuming that the All Elite promotion is not affiliated with New Japan). I like a lot of them as wrestlers but I can't get excited about their New Japan matches when it seems like they are already barely a part of the promotion.

Having said all that, I do hope that Kota Ibushi and Chase Owens stick around. Owens has been the MVP of the multiman tags this year, and he looked really great in the 6-man that he was a part of today against LIJ. Yujiro also had a really fun moment when he called out former tag team partner Tetsuya Naito, which got a big reaction from the mostly quiet crowd. I think I would legitimately be more interested in a heated Yujiro vs. Naito match than I am in Naito's actual Wrestle Kingdom match (against another All Elite guy whose absentee status is making it hard to get invested in anything he's involved in).

Ibushi's NEVER Title match with Goto was really, really good, and definitely the match of the night. Goto got it off to a hot start with that handshake-into-(attempted) Ushigoroshi spot, and the match never really let up from there. The whole Kamigoye sequence at the end was really well done too. Ibushi is kind of the perfect person to have the NEVER title on, because he's equally adept at the brutal striking that the NEVER scene is known for and at the high-flying junior style that someone carrying an ostensibly openweight belt should probably be good at. I'm so glad that he and Ospreay are going to have a big 1-on-1 match at Wrestle Kingdom after all. Right now that is looking like the most promising match on the card, even moreso than the British Title and Junior Title matches.

Speaking of Ospreay, I also really enjoyed his #1 Contender match against Taichi. Ospreay did an excellent job of selling his ribs even while on offense. He still pulled off some fantastic spots, but in a way that didn't detract from the story of the match. I don't want to undersell Taichi's role in the match, as he was actually very good here too. He was back in the same "asshole power guy" mode that he was in the Anniversary Show match against Naito (the only other Taichi singles match that I've enjoyed since he's gone heavyweight) and not relying on lame old-school heel tactics. I thought he did a very effective job working over Ospreay's ribs.

The other noteworthy aspect of today's show was all the crossover between the Taguchi Japan/New Japan Army wrestlers and the CHAOS wrestlers. I don't think the English commentary team even commented on the fact that the Best Friends and Elgin/Cobb were teaming together, and then of course later on they had the intriguing angle with Makabe rescuing long-ago teammate Yano from the Bullet Club. I don't really know where any of that is going, but I'm intrigued by how suddenly fluid some of the inter-faction stuff is becoming.

I know I've gotten long-winded here, but I also just want to advise anybody who might be thinking of fast-forwarding to the big matches to make time for the Ishii/Roppongi 3K vs. Sabre/Kanemaru/Desperado match. Aside from the obviously exciting Ishii/Sabre power-vs.-technique exchanges, there was also some really great stuff between Ishii and Kanemaru. That's not any kind of obvious dream matchup, but they paired up exceptionally well, and I was surprised by how much offense Kaneamaru got in before inevitably getting pinned.

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OptionZero
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by OptionZero » Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:46 am

I am beyond giddy about the way that Wrestle Kingdom card came together.

While the build for the matches might have been iffy, and the triple threat tags are worthy of grumbling . . . they'll still be fun matches. Spread apart, they'll break up some of the more intense matches.

As it stands, we're getting FRESH matchups that have never met at a Wrestle Kingdom in the form of Okada/White and Tanahashi/Omega, with each having faced each other only once before.

Ospreay/Ibushi is a totally new matchup that could legitimately break that 5 star barrier through sheer insanity.

Ishimori/Kushida is also a fresh matchup.

ZSJ/Ishii has been done before, but they've been awesome each time and will be awesome again.

ditto for Jericho/Naito. Its gonna be a slugfest, and it was good the first time.


The worst match on the card, other than the Rumble and NEVER trios gauntlet is gonna be Juice/Cody. We know how that one is gonna play out. Cody, with some Brandi assistance, is gonna heel it up, Juice will rally as the babyface and pull it out to win back the US belt as Cody leaves for AEW (hopefully!) Put this match after the Jr Tag match or the Ospreay/Ibushi match as a come down

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OptionZero
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by OptionZero » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:42 am

#WK13 card is finalized after the presser just now:



Big change is the lack of the Rumble; the NEVER Gauntlet match is the pre-show. I think it can function similarly anyways; you have 6 dudes starting and 3 new dudes entering after each "stage." Could be a bit tidier than a rumble, never more than 6 men active at the same time. You'll get the same cast of characters in makeshift teams anyways.

No NEVER trios championship defense; the NEVER gauntlet match is for #1 contendership. This was a neat sidestep of the problem with GOD holding the trios titles with Ishimori. As Lanza pointed out, dropping the NEVER titles would require GOD (champs) or Ishimori (challenger for Jr belt) losing, and you don't really want that right before WK.


Also, partial cards for Road To Tokyo Dome at Koreakuen:
Friday card



Saturday card is gonna have a BANGER

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OptionZero
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by OptionZero » Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:12 am

Just thinking . . . what promotion out there could match this card, accounting for star power, in-ring, and story?

The only thing close is a WWE Network supercard, accessing NXT, NXT UK, and 205.

Something like:

NXT title - Riddle v Black
Cruiserweight title - Ricochet v Murphy v Ali
NXT NA title - Dream v Adam Cole v Keith Lee
UK Title - Dunne v WALTER
NXT Tag titles - Undisputed Era v #DIY
NXT women's title - Shirai v Sane
UK women's title - Bayzler v Storm
UK tag titles - Mustache Mountain v War Machine

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SamoKuma
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by SamoKuma » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:00 pm

Just finished watching end of the tag league. Quite good tournament, watched all of it, even if I am not fond of hardcam shows.

Epic finale but man, when the Bucks showed themselves, air just disappeared from the arena. They felt it, cause Matt's promo was weak and nervous. And if I know match will be very good, the way njpw booked it left a sour taste in mouths.

I am not one of those who shat all year long on The Elite and Omega since he's champion, on the contrary I supported them all along for doing their stuff but... That, it s juste wrong. Shoot or kayfabe wise, it's just wrong. How can you justify parachuting them like that, after an tournament somme toute quite good and an epic finale? Could not they wait one of the korakuen show just for respect their own roster? Damn, they made tama look like a baby face. match will be good but kayfabe wise that's not a good message, and shoot wise, that's just a Klik move.

Can already hear the super J cast rants on this till the end of the year.

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BlizzardAcolyte
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by BlizzardAcolyte » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:54 pm

The special VOW "Who's Gonna Be in the Gauntlet?" Pick 'Em will be very interesting...

(you have to guess the specific trios right, bonus points for guessing how many teams will be in it.)

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OptionZero
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by OptionZero » Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:38 pm

SamoKuma wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:00 pm
Just finished watching end of the tag league. Quite good tournament, watched all of it, even if I am not fond of hardcam shows.

Epic finale but man, when the Bucks showed themselves, air just disappeared from the arena. They felt it, cause Matt's promo was weak and nervous. And if I know match will be very good, the way njpw booked it left a sour taste in mouths.

I am not one of those who shat all year long on The Elite and Omega since he's champion, on the contrary I supported them all along for doing their stuff but... That, it s juste wrong. Shoot or kayfabe wise, it's just wrong. How can you justify parachuting them like that, after an tournament somme toute quite good and an epic finale? Could not they wait one of the korakuen show just for respect their own roster? Damn, they made tama look like a baby face. match will be good but kayfabe wise that's not a good message, and shoot wise, that's just a Klik move.

Can already hear the super J cast rants on this till the end of the year.
There's a difference between bad booking that leads up to the match, and the match itself. As Lanza pointed out on the breaking news special pod . . . the match will probably be BETTER with the Young Bucks in it, because . . . well, GOD ain't exactly reliable, especially when there are shenanigans

Having said that, Bucks/GOD 2 or Bucks/LIJ 3 would have been better

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Ckkj14
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Ckkj14 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:40 pm

Is this the greatest pro wrestling card put together ever? I'd say yes. If not what else would you say? This card is ridiculously stacked and I cannot wait

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Tigerkinney
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Tigerkinney » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:05 am

Random thoughts:

Tag League was decent this year, which is the best you can hope for, given it's current position in the schedule and the way it's presented. On the positive side, even the worst matches were not dreadfully bad this year. Iizuka is still the drizzling shits but he didn't actually ruin any matches for me this year and that all Suzukigun match between Suzuki & Iizuka against Zack & Taichi was shockingly good. Even the Jado BS in the G.O.D matches was kept in check- enough to do it's job to be generate heel heat but not so much that I'd want to skip their matches all together.

On the downside there still weren't really any great matches, with the best stuff being around 4 stars at best. Young Bucks waltzing in and inserting themselves in the title match was kind of annoying but I will take it over seeing G.O.D vs L.I.J for the third time in only a month (not that those matches were terrible, I'm just not exactly clamouring to see that match again anytime soon). I think also bugs as well is that we have somehow ended up with a situation where both Tag title matches end up being three way's. I don't hate three ways as much as some people but it would have been nice to have seen at least one of the matches be a straight 2vs2.

As for the Wrestle Kingdom Card overall, it's not perfect but it's certainly one I'm looking forward to. I am excited for Ibushi vs Ospreay, Omega vs Tanahashi, KUSHIDA vs Ishimori and Ishii vs ZSJ- in that order. So pleased Ishii finally gets to be in a big Wrestle Kingdom singles match.

Okada vs White and Naito vs Jericho are matches I am cautiously optimistic on- They are matches that could be good if everyone has their working boots on and are free of bullshit but I won't be shocked if they shit the bed either.

I'm not overly excited for either of the two Tag Team title matches but am hopeful at least one if not both will end up being good matches. Finally I like really Juice Robinson (has grown into being one of the best babyfaces in wrestling) but I can't get excited for a Cody match at Wrestle Kingdom, all I hope is that somehow manages to over-deliver. I'm not going to bitch and moan though about Cody getting a Wrestle Kingdom match over Goto or Suzuki.

A big(ish) name or two misses out every year and this year it was their turn to miss out, apart from maybe dropping the US Title match from the card and having the NEVER Six Man contenders gauntlet as a main card match, where else were you going to shoe-horn either of them in on the card and even then some people would have complained that they weren't getting a big singles match- Just be happy that Ishii deservedly gets to be in a big time singles match this year!

Finally I'm hoping the teams for the NEVER Six Man contenders gauntlet remain a mystery until the show itself, hoping for some really random team, featuring someone like Cheeseburger to turn up.

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Weirzbowski
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Weirzbowski » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:01 am

So no Chuckie T or Trent? on the road to tour. I would hope they make it into the gauntlet but who knows.
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SamoKuma
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by SamoKuma » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:20 am

OptionZero wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:38 pm
SamoKuma wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:00 pm
Just finished watching end of the tag league. Quite good tournament, watched all of it, even if I am not fond of hardcam shows.

Epic finale but man, when the Bucks showed themselves, air just disappeared from the arena. They felt it, cause Matt's promo was weak and nervous. And if I know match will be very good, the way njpw booked it left a sour taste in mouths.

I am not one of those who shat all year long on The Elite and Omega since he's champion, on the contrary I supported them all along for doing their stuff but... That, it s juste wrong. Shoot or kayfabe wise, it's just wrong. How can you justify parachuting them like that, after an tournament somme toute quite good and an epic finale? Could not they wait one of the korakuen show just for respect their own roster? Damn, they made tama look like a baby face. match will be good but kayfabe wise that's not a good message, and shoot wise, that's just a Klik move.

Can already hear the super J cast rants on this till the end of the year.
There's a difference between bad booking that leads up to the match, and the match itself. As Lanza pointed out on the breaking news special pod . . . the match will probably be BETTER with the Young Bucks in it, because . . . well, GOD ain't exactly reliable, especially when there are shenanigans

Having said that, Bucks/GOD 2 or Bucks/LIJ 3 would have been better
Oh, i have zero worries about the match quality. Bucks are the bucks, and shit classic everytime They want, and LIJ & GOD are on fire (i think GOD were by far team of the tournament).

The way it is done bugs me that s all.

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frankpellow
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by frankpellow » Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:12 pm

Very good K Hall show today.
Chris Charlton on the English commentary adds so much for me and i hope we see/hear more from him in 2019.
There were two new Young Lions at ringside and i think they are from Fale's dojo.
https://itelemaluwritings.com/2018/09/1 ... njpw-dojo/
Andrew and Michael?

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