NJPW (Discussion)

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Jacob's Bawks
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Jacob's Bawks » Sat May 05, 2018 5:21 pm

Assuming none of the teased matches get pushed back to Cow Palace (which they can probably do, Dominion is almost sold out already) this looks pretty good. Only match that I don't care about is Goto vs Elgin/Taichi. I'd rather Juice have won that belt and unify with the US Title but it'll be alright I guess.

It seems pretty bold to debut Ishimori like this right before a major tournament but I do hope he wins. Gedo loves to debut guys with a bang (Hiromu, AJ, White, etc) so it seems set-in-stone. I'm actually at a point I'd slightly prefer Hiromu didn't win because him and BUSHI have a good thing going as a tag-team and could help those belts out some.

As bad as the Suzukigun vs RPG 3K matches are I love why they're there so RPG 3K can learn to fight against antics from some of the most antic-heavy heels on the roster and get some edge. Character development folks. Between RPG 3K's edge and Hiromu/BUSHI getting more and more pissed, another 3-way tag feels welcome and feels like it'll be crazy. But I guess we'd have to wait until BoSJ is over to see if that's the direction we go.

I have no real opinion on Okada/Omega IV by itself but the story feels odd. Almost all of the heat of the feud is gone and is happening 'because reasons' which I really don't like. It also seems out-of-place since, for all we know, the Bullet Club stuff isn't over just because they did an awkward 2-sweet on their fifth anniversary. Seems like it's something that needs to go on through Cow Palace and All In and I wouldn't rule out something happening in the middle of the match or afterward. Something that stuck out during the Ishimori reveal was when Tama called Scurll, his own factionmate, a lightweight (meaning he's nothing) while Ishimori is a heavyweight (a something).
I dunno what I'm doing but come follow me on Twitter @Jacobs_Bawks

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rollup
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by rollup » Sat May 05, 2018 6:48 pm

there is also the little thing that it was Tama who introduced the boner , thought you could say Kenny was busy chasing Cody at the time

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Leo C
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Leo C » Sat May 05, 2018 9:25 pm

Am I the only one hoping they don't do Naito/Jericho at Dominion? That seems like such a waste of a hot match when you have a US show one month later that is probably going to need something like that in order to do very well, even though Dominion is the 2nd biggest show of the year or whatever. I guess if Kenny won the title and Jericho lost to Naito in Osaka you could somehow awkwardly pivot to Jericho/Okada and do that in the US instead (or have Jericho lose up and challenge Okada if he retains, lol, who knows)... I don't know.

Bloodbuzz Bunk
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Bloodbuzz Bunk » Sat May 05, 2018 10:49 pm

It definitely feels like Omega v Okada IV being 2 of 3 without a time limit is a make good for the company presumably holding off Naito v Jericho( also White v Juice) until the Cow Palace Show. Also likely getting Omega v Cody at the Cow Palace for control of BC. Question remains if the Omega v Cody match will be for the heavyweight title or not.

Trying to look forward past that and you can see all the possibilities for G1 and WK13. Imagine Omega winning the belt and Okada winning the G1 and headlining the Dome with something like Ibushi challenging Naito for the IC title( considering the belt’s connection to Nakamura and how much that all means to Ibushi). It could function as a crowning achievement night for the Golden Lovers or Omega’s grand sendoff. I could also see Omega winning at Dominion and then Ibushi winning the G1 and then the world melt in anticipation of that encounter. I’m so glad we are through v12 and we can dream dreams Again.

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mrjoshdude
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by mrjoshdude » Sun May 06, 2018 1:07 pm

Jacob's Bawks wrote: I have no real opinion on Okada/Omega IV by itself but the story feels odd. Almost all of the heat of the feud is gone and is happening 'because reasons' which I really don't like. It also seems out-of-place since, for all we know, the Bullet Club stuff isn't over just because they did an awkward 2-sweet on their fifth anniversary. Seems like it's something that needs to go on through Cow Palace and All In and I wouldn't rule out something happening in the middle of the match or afterward. Something that stuck out during the Ishimori reveal was when Tama called Scurll, his own factionmate, a lightweight (meaning he's nothing) while Ishimori is a heavyweight (a something).
I think it makes sense in the sense that Okada has been totally dominant over everyone in New Japan except Kenny. He only dropped wins in the G1 last year to Kenny and EVIL, he went on to beat EVIL at KOPW but never got closure for the loss to Kenny. And even before that at last year's Dominion he wasn't technically able to beat Kenny then either. So imo it does make sense, but I do also think it came a little out of nowhere and would've liked a little more build up

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Tigerkinney
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Tigerkinney » Mon May 07, 2018 9:36 am

Had to play a bit of catch up, due to work and problems with NJPW World.

Was a little surprised at some of the negative reaction to the main event matches on Night 1. Not saying that either would be troubling anyone's MOTYC anytime soon but neither was two stars bad, as I've seen being bandied about by some reviewers on the internet. Thought Lawson Leong who did the review on this site gave one of the fairer assessments on the pair of matches. Cody vs Ibushi at Wrestlekingdom had the better action, but this one at Dontaku actually had the better story. I know some of Cody's heel schtick, such as the stalling can be a bit frustrating and can halt the flow of a match but from a character perspective why is he going to do stuff that pleases the crowd. Kayfabe wise, he's a dick- all he cares about is winning by any means possible and himself. I think that sometimes people forget that heels aren't there to please the crowd.

Omega vs Hangman was actually pretty solid, the only thing really holding it back was that I don't think anyone really believed Hangman was going to pull off the upset at any point. There wasn't any chance he was going to be given the show closing speech spot.

Night 2 admittedly was the much better show. Thought Ospreay vs KUSHIDA was another outstanding match between the pair and personally my match of the night. I enjoyed Okada vs Tanahashi but it's definitely at the lower end, when it comes to me ranking their matches. It was great once they turned it up a few gears but the slow/basic stuff at the beginning wasn't for me.

In terms of the undercard- there wasn't much to the matches but plenty of interesting angle advancement, with the reveal of Taiji Ishimori as the new Bone Soldier and of course the Naito/Jericho angle- which was excellent apart from Jericho having trouble removing the mask. :lol: Anyway I'm just glad they seem to be moving on from Naito vs Suzuki.

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Tigerkinney
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Tigerkinney » Mon May 07, 2018 9:49 am

Best of the Super Juniors Line Up and main matches for Dominion have also been announced.

Dominion First:

IWGP Heavyweight (2/3 Falls): Kazuchika Okada vs Kenny Omega

IWGP Intercontinental: Tetsuya Naito vs Chris Jericho

IWGP Tag Team: EVIL & SANADA vs Young Bucks

NEVER Openweight: Hirooki Goto vs Michael Elgin vs Taichi

Rey Mysterio will also be in action! I also expect that the Junior title match will be added, I suppose they want to keep the possibility alive of Ospreay running the table at BOSJ and then challenging Mysterio.

This already seems to be a very stacked card. Slightly surprised they didn't hold off Jericho vs Naito for the Cow Palace, considering the slow ticket sales for that show, and I was hoping we weren't going to get the three way for the NEVER belt.

Onto the BOSJ Line Up:

A Block

ACH

BUSHI

Flip Gordon

Taiji Ishimori

Tiger Mask IV

Will Ospreay

Yoshinobu Kanemaru

YOH

B Block

Chris Sabin

Dragon Lee

El Desperado

Hiromu Takahashi

KUSHIDA

Marty Scurll

Ryusuke Taguchi

SHO

Sabin stands out as the surprise entrant. Everyone else is who you would have expected to be in this year's BOSJ. Block B is the stronger overall block, I can see that coming down to tie-breakers on the final night. Hiromu is probably the favourite for the Block, but I can easily see someone else making the finals from that Block.

Block A is going to come down to Ospreay vs Ishimori. I think Ishimori gets a win over Ospreay to set up a title match at some point and there's a strong possibility that he could win the whole thing, but I can still see a scenario where Opsreay wins the rest of his matches to reach another BOSJ Finals and possibly go on to win the whole thing again.

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armsofsleep
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by armsofsleep » Mon May 07, 2018 3:34 pm

Much love to ACH, but sort of weird that he's still coming over for these

Also Sabin is a pretty shit choice for "surprise entrant". Another CMLL guy (especially a younger lad like Sanson or Soberano) wouldve been waaaay better.

Bloodbuzz Bunk
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Bloodbuzz Bunk » Mon May 07, 2018 4:04 pm

I’m excited for the BOSJ. It feels like Ishimori v Takahashi/Kushida in the finals. I think Mysterio v Ospreay is set in stone for the Cow Palace but I have been wrong before.

Dominion feels stacked considering we are likely getting White v Juice at Dominion after White’s defense on the War of the Worlds tour. I’m shocked we are getting Naito v Jericho here and not in San Francisco but I trust Gedo to figure it out.

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armsofsleep
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by armsofsleep » Mon May 07, 2018 4:55 pm

Bloodbuzz Bunk wrote:I’m excited for the BOSJ. It feels like Ishimori v Takahashi/Kushida in the finals. I think Mysterio v Ospreay is set in stone for the Cow Palace but I have been wrong before.

Dominion feels stacked considering we are likely getting White v Juice at Dominion after White’s defense on the War of the Worlds tour. I’m shocked we are getting Naito v Jericho here and not in San Francisco but I trust Gedo to figure it out.
I saw somewhere that Jericho may be refusing to work in the US for NJPW. Would probably make a little more of a fuss with WWE if he worked there than in Japan. And considering he probably prefers to have a legends deal in his backpocket......

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Frank Olson
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Frank Olson » Tue May 15, 2018 1:09 am

There hasn't been a ton of hype for Best of the Super Juniors this year but I've been glancing through the schedule and pretty much every night has at least one awesome-sounding match. The ones I'm most excited for are Ishimori vs. Ospreay (May 18th), ACH vs. Ospreay (May 20th), KUSHIDA vs. Scurll (May 22nd), Hiromu vs. El Desperado (also May 22nd), KUSHIDA vs. Taguchi (May 25th), Hiromu vs. Dragon Lee (also May 25th), KUSHIDA vs. SHO (in my most anticipated match of the tournament on May 27th), Hiromu vs. Taguchi (also May 27th), ACH vs. Ishimori (May 31st), and SHO vs. Hiromu (June 2nd).

The B Block is obviously the stronger of the two blocks and a bit more interesting since there are a couple different people who I could see advancing to the finals, whereas Ishimori is almost definitely winning Block A. My prediction is that everybody in the B block either goes 4-3 or 3-4, with either SHO or KUSHIDA advancing to the final. Looking at the matches scheduled for the last B Block night I would guess that Scurll spoils Taguchi's chances and SHO prevents Hiromu from winning the block, while KUSHIDA and Dragon Lee could go either way and Sabin and Desperado will probably be non-factors at that point. Gun to my head I guess I would pick KUSHIDA to win the B Block.

I'm curious to see how the A Block is booked because there are really very few people in the block who seem like they could be credible Jr Title challengers down the line, which is interesting given that that is the block that the current champion is in and that one of the functions of these round robin tournaments is to produce future title challengers. Apart from Ospreay and Ishimori the only people in the block who seem like they could plausibly be in Jr Title matches anytime in the near future are BUSHI (always a good choice for a challenger on a C show like Kizuna Road), maybe ACH (if Ishimori is champion and they want to play off of their brief history together as tag partners), and I guess Flip Gordon (if the title gets defended in the US on a Ring of Honor show or something). Just seeing the lineup of 8 for the A Block I would've assumed that they'd have Ospreay and Ishimori dominate the field and maybe even go undefeated before facing each other on the final night, but in actuality they are facing each other on the first night. Ishimori's last block opponent is ACH and Ospreay's final opponent is Tiger Mask IV, of all people. So it's hard to look at the schedule for the A Block and figure out how the tournament is going to play out, even though I assume that the endgame is Ishimori winning.

I've seen that some people are down on the inclusion of Chris Sabin, and while I would've been more excited to see someone like Soberano Jr. in the tournament, I think we have to remember that Sabin will probably be really excited to be a part of this. He's kind of a void of charisma but he's still a really good worker. If he's booked to defeat KUSHIDA on the first B Block night (in another match that has a strong chance of being awesome) the crowds might even believe in him too. If the Beer City Bruiser can impress in a New Japan ring then I see no reason to believe that Chris Sabin won't deliver too.

I'm most excited to see how Ishimori, SHO and YOH fare in this setting. I know that YOH was in the tournament back in 2015, but being in as a Young Lion is a lot different than being in as a roster mainstay. SHO has definitely been the star of Roppongi 3K so far, so I'm hoping to see YOH step out and impress in this tournament. As many others have pointed out, SHO seems to have all the makings of a future junior ace, so seeing him go 1-on-1 with so many of the top stars in the division should be like a preview of what the junior division will look like in a few years.

Bloodbuzz Bunk
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Bloodbuzz Bunk » Tue May 15, 2018 3:30 pm

Frank Olson wrote:
I'm most excited to see how Ishimori, SHO and YOH fare in this setting. I know that YOH was in the tournament back in 2015, but being in as a Young Lion is a lot different than being in as a roster mainstay. SHO has definitely been the star of Roppongi 3K so far, so I'm hoping to see YOH step out and impress in this tournament. As many others have pointed out, SHO seems to have all the makings of a future junior ace, so seeing him go 1-on-1 with so many of the top stars in the division should be like a preview of what the junior division will look like in a few years.
I’m also super interested in seeing how Sho and Yoh get booked and fare in the BOSJ. 3K has been really great as a tag team and honestly I don’t think Yoh gets enough credit for that. Yoh is typically the guy who gets punished before hot tagging Sho into clean house and set up the finish. I think that classic formula works well and it really lets Sho stand out and make use of his look and charisma but it has left Yoh in the shadows and underrated. We all seem to forget how well Yoh sells( especially in the matches with the Bucks) and how much of his body he gives away( evidence A, every time Hiromu chops him to death).

So they both have a chance really showcase themselves and show a deeper dimension to their work as singles wrestlers in this tournament. I think both are likely 2-5 or 3-4 guys who play spoiler to some big names. The last night of block matches on 6/3 when both blocks wrap up at KH is likely the big stage where Sho upsets Scrull and spoils his chances and Yoh gives Ishimori his second loss before Ospreay gets spoiled by Flip Gordon( that’s my bold prediction).

B Block might be the best individual talent block of any G1 or BOSJ ever. Sabin might not be Volador or Soberano Jr but he can go this is likely his last chance to do something this high profile or his opportunity to reestablish himself as a singles competitor if the rumors of Alex Shelley’s retirement in the next couple of years are true. Every B block match looks great and aside from a few matches where Taguchi will drag out the comedy, every one of them will be barn burners.

A Block seems really reliant on Ospreay and Ishimori to steady the field and drag a great match out the old grumps( Kanemaru, TMIV) or the less seasoned Flip Gordon( I actually like Flip but him becoming buddies with the Bucks has accelerated a push and bookings 12-18 months early imo).

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Frank Olson
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Frank Olson » Wed May 16, 2018 4:01 am

Somehow when I was looking at the tournament schedule I completely missed that final night where both blocks are in competition, which invalidates like 1/2 of what I wrote last night. Flip Gordon makes a lot more sense as Ospreay's final opponent than Tiger Mask IV would have. Looking at the actual final opponents for everybody I feel more confident that KUSHIDA is winning the B Block, as SHO is almost certainly getting spoiled by Scurll.

That final night of block competition looks like a real Show of the Year contender. Flip vs. Will, YOH vs. Ishimori, SHO vs. Scurll, Dragon Lee vs. Desperado, and KUSHIDA vs. Hiromu all on one show is a real dream lineup.

I agree that Flip is being pushed before he seems to be fully ready, but I'm excited to see how he does in this setting. He had a pretty incredible match with Ospreay in ROH last fall, so hopefully he can have at least a few matches of that caliber in this tournament as well.

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OptionZero
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by OptionZero » Thu May 17, 2018 6:02 am

Random Twitter convo with Joel Abraham lead me to this hypothetical

Bryan Danielson leaves WWE. He goes to Progress and sees Travis Banks being a shitty, less likeable version of his small tough guy schtick. He beats the piss out of banks and takes the Progress Title after running through everyone in a Thunderbastard.

He goes to Ring of Honor to catch up with his buddy Cody. He tells Cody that the American Nightmare gimmick is cute, but he's the American Dragon. He takes Cody's ring.

Then he goes to NJPW. Enters the G1. He fills out Meltzer's MOTY ballot for him with 5 star classics. He wins G1. Then we get to WK14:

Daniel Bryan v Kenny Omega for the IWGP Heavyweight Championship while holding the progress title and cody's ring
Okada v. Jericho for the IC strap, bc Jericho says he's the greatest IC Champ EVER
Ibushi v Jay White for the US title, because Jay White caused Kenny to lose his friends
Osprey v. Neville for the IWGP jr. title, because surely his WWE contract will be up by then
Tanahashi/Juice vs. Young Bucks for the IWGP HW Tag straps.
how many gaijin go to the tokyo dome?

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Danwaka
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Danwaka » Thu May 17, 2018 8:13 am

Not enough to justify giving Daniel Bryan that big a top spot.

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