NJPW (Discussion)

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Jacob's Bawks
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Jacob's Bawks » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:13 am

Kenny has admitted that him quitting DDT and comedy wrestling was influenced by age and the fact he could make more money elsewhere. It's something to keep in mind when talking about him and WWE.

I've not changed my stance on this particular situation and firmly believe he's staying, but if WWE comes with a big-money offer in a year or two I'd easily see him taking it up.
I dunno what I'm doing but come follow me on Twitter @Jacobs_Bawks

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BradPTBN
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by BradPTBN » Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:55 am

thecubsfan wrote:Just for the sake of argument, are they really going into competition with ROH? ROH doesn't run California, doesn't seem to have any plans to run California or any part of the western US outside of the annual show in Vegas (and that seems to be more about getting a good deal than trying to own the market.) Unless ROH radically grows, that's not going to change soon. The two promotions could still work together and even share talent - ROH talent picking up a few extra dates to replace the Floslam ones they're losing - while not stepping on each other's toes in the short term. This may be the beginning of something that ends in a confrontation, but it doesn't need to be one at first.
The other area where there isn't a conflict is TV. ROH is firmly planted in syndication, with a number of streaming options for their TV across the globe. NJPW is purported to be pursuing cable deals.
Joe Lanza wrote: We all saw this coming, except for ROH, who helped open the door for all of this. Years of handing exposure to NJPW stars in America, on their biggest shows and on TV. NJPW flat out stealing some of them (Elgin, KOR).
I'll go a step further - let's say if NJPW flat out dumps them going into 2018, with the benefit of hindsight after partnering for what will have been four straight years, I don't think ROH would change a thing. NJPW, even with a clean break (which I don't believe is likely but who knows), isn't going to shutter Ring of Honor's current model. I'll also say, i'm interested in the venues NJPW pulls down since Koff has said it was very challenging finding places for ROH to work out of in CA.

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EvanDeadlySins
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by EvanDeadlySins » Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:13 am

NJPW on its own may not be able to contend with WWE's biggest money offers at this point in time, but I'm quite sure that abundant dollars would come out of Bushiroad's coffers if that meant the difference between losing Omega and keeping him. I think money is going to be less of a factor in any future negotiations than people think, because Kidani is becoming more and more invested in this thing over time.

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Joe Lanza
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Joe Lanza » Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:23 am

There are positives and negatives to Kidani taking last January personally.

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EvanDeadlySins
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by EvanDeadlySins » Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:46 am

I don't really buy what Kidani said about feeling personally insulted or anything by the Jan '16 raid, nor do I think that it was the true impetus for NJPW's July LA shows like he said. Definitely not.

I think he's trying to develop an ECW Heyman-esque "us against them" mentality among the fans and wrestlers that makes them emotionally invest in NJPW's success at a greater level. And I think that it's working to some extent. Many western fans, even people who don't watch it, have said that they'd 100% be in NJPW's corner if the two companies start really butting heads.

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suplexberry
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by suplexberry » Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:55 am

Not all WWE deals are created equal, especially these 19k deal days, but I think Omega wants to be even bigger than Styles - if you get paid like a star right out of the gate, you're sure as hell going to be treated like a star. If you're paid developmental money, you're signing your destiny over to the unpredictable powers that be. So yeah, I'm pretty certain we can file this discussion for 2019 and it'll be more relevant then. And if WWE doesn't want to pay him the big bucks then, for whatever reason? He can stay in Japan and probably be okay with it, and nobody will bat an eye, apart from the WWE-only fans who will be left wondering "what if". I share Purocast guys' frustration in that these kinds of discussions might become yearly at this point and one of the biggest themes going forward is who NJPW can keep loyal, paid and happy who also has a shot to make it elsewhere.

I'm hoping New Japan Cup starts with a KOR signing announcement, like Big Mike last year. I feel bad for ROH but they should've pushed him in 2015 and things might be very different now.

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EvanDeadlySins
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by EvanDeadlySins » Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:12 am

Meltzer has a long piece in the Observer this week analyzing Kidani's NJPW USA plans. He's clearly extremely skeptical, and based on the situation as it currently stands, it's for the best. To get a real lay of the land and learn about what it would take to make money as a touring company in America, read it, it's very well done. Wonder if Kidani reads the Observer too. Even if you're optimistic, there are holes in the plan that shouldn't go disregarded.

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Joe Lanza
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Joe Lanza » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:02 am

One thing about what dave wrote, most of which I agree with, particularly poking the WWE bear and potentially losing stars to them. Long Beach won't draw the 3,000 that he says would be a success. I've hinted around but I'll come right out and say they shows won't even be set up for that much. I know the number. They aren't being overly ambitious (which to me is smart).

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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by EvanDeadlySins » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:16 am

Considering that and all the costs involved of flying in equipment and talent, I would have to imagine that these shows will be money-losers unless they jack up ticket prices and/or clean up at the merchandise table. You were talking about having important matches to put NJPW's best foot forward, but there'd be something lost by having a major match in a venue that small.

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Joe Lanza
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Joe Lanza » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:41 am

EvanDeadlySins wrote:Considering that and all the costs involved of flying in equipment and talent, I would have to imagine that these shows will be money-losers unless they jack up ticket prices and/or clean up at the merchandise table. You were talking about having important matches to put NJPW's best foot forward, but there'd be something lost by having a major match in a venue that small.
When we had that conversation on the podcast, I wasn't privy to the room size. Now that we know, there is no way in hell I burn an Okada/Omega match, or even Ospreay/Ricochet for that matter.

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saviorofstrongstyle
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by saviorofstrongstyle » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:50 am

Joe Lanza wrote:
When we had that conversation on the podcast, I wasn't privy to the room size. Now that we know, there is no way in hell I burn an Okada/Omega match, or even Ospreay/Ricochet for that matter.
Do you think they would approach it similar to the way they approached the Singapore show?
As a sort of fun show with maybe a serious NEVER title challenge, etc.?

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Joe Lanza
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Joe Lanza » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:56 am

saviorofstrongstyle wrote:
Joe Lanza wrote:
When we had that conversation on the podcast, I wasn't privy to the room size. Now that we know, there is no way in hell I burn an Okada/Omega match, or even Ospreay/Ricochet for that matter.
Do you think they would approach it similar to the way they approached the Singapore show?
As a sort of fun show with maybe a serious NEVER title challenge, etc.?
The big stars will be there. They might book major matches for all I know, I'm just saying that I wouldn't. I think they can fill it without doing great cards. I would do something a little better than Singapore.

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saviorofstrongstyle
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by saviorofstrongstyle » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:01 am

Interesting. I'm moving back to the U.S. from Europe quite soon. I am definitely considering going to Long Beach depending on the card. If it's better than the Singapore show and all the big stars will be on it then for sure I will go to it and also drop money on merch.

Hopefully some of that hard to obtain "The Wrestler" merch will be there.

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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by EvanDeadlySins » Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:11 am

"I can really see that New Japan is going to end up being like Crockett Promotions in trying to fight [WWE] and lose. Everybody else is going to be gobbled up by trying to be friends [with WWE] and lose. That's the direction for however long this is going to be, probably the next 3-4 years."
- Dave Meltzer, January 19, 2017 Wrestling Observer Radio (@ 2:00).

Lovely.

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Goat
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Goat » Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:08 pm

EvanDeadlySins wrote:"I can really see that New Japan is going to end up being like Crockett Promotions in trying to fight [WWE] and lose. Everybody else is going to be gobbled up by trying to be friends [with WWE] and lose. That's the direction for however long this is going to be, probably the next 3-4 years."
- Dave Meltzer, January 19, 2017 Wrestling Observer Radio (@ 2:00).

Lovely.
So no matter you're strategy you're doomed.

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