NJPW (Discussion)

[jesse]

Are there any numbers to back up Naito being this huge draw?.. Invasion Attack was his most impressive draw, but other than that there is nothing to be impressed by, numbers have gone down compared to previously years, in fact. Styles drew more than him and he was a virtually unknown gaijin thrust into the main event.

Naito's for some reason taken the blame for weak BOSJ numbers. He has nothing to do with that tournament at all. That means you have to go and look at the G1. Here's how his numbers are as the guy in the main event position in the same-ish places as the year before.

His G1 match with Omega did 7,477. The Nakamura and Okada match the year before did 7,557.
Sold out his Korakuen Hall main event with Elgin.
Shibata and Naito did 5,500 in Aichi. Tanahashi and Yano did 6,500. However both shows are listed as overcrowed so we don't know if they had less seats than last year in the same venue. No one has really been able to understand it. You can take it either way you want.
Honma and Naito was 2,144 in Kagawa. Okada and Honma in the same facility but in a side building did 2,070.
Nakajima and Naito 2,573 in Fukuoka. Naito and AJ was 2,640. Different venues but same city.
EVIL match was 3,200 in Hamamatsu. Closest G1 25 comparison was the Anderson/Nakamura match in the same prefecture that did 1,805.

Wrestling Dontaku was at 5,299 this year with Naito and Ishii which was up from the year previous of 5,180 with Goto and Nakamura.

If any of that is off it's hard to do this without Cagematch. Still I think the numbers during the G1 show Naito is very much a huge draw for New Japan. Naito wasn't in the block with the bigger names of this G1. They depended on him greatly to carry the weight for a lot of these shows and he did just that.

[Jacob's Bawks]

Are there any numbers to back up Naito being this huge draw?.. Invasion Attack was his most impressive draw, but other than that there is nothing to be impressed by, numbers have gone down compared to previously years, in fact. Styles drew more than him and he was a virtually unknown gaijin thrust into the main event.

Naito's for some reason taken the blame for weak BOSJ numbers. He has nothing to do with that tournament at all. That means you have to go and look at the G1. Here's how his numbers are as the guy in the main event position in the same-ish places as the year before.

His G1 match with Omega did 7,477. The Nakamura and Okada match the year before did 7,557.
Sold out his Korakuen Hall main event with Elgin.
Shibata and Naito did 5,500 in Aichi. Tanahashi and Yano did 6,500. However both shows are listed as overcrowed so we don't know if they had less seats than last year in the same venue. No one has really been able to understand it. You can take it either way you want.
Honma and Naito was 2,144 in Kagawa. Okada and Honma in the same facility but in a side building did 2,070.
Nakajima and Naito 2,573 in Fukuoka. Naito and AJ was 2,640. Different venues but same city.
EVIL match was 3,200 in Hamamatsu. Closest G1 25 comparison was the Anderson/Nakamura match in the same prefecture that did 1,805.

Wrestling Dontaku was at 5,299 this year with Naito and Ishii which was up from the year previous of 5,180 with Goto and Nakamura.

If any of that is off it's hard to do this without Cagematch. Still I think the numbers during the G1 show Naito is very much a huge draw for New Japan. Naito wasn't in the block with the bigger names of this G1. They depended on him greatly to carry the weight for a lot of these shows and he did just that.

I looked at BoSJ attendance the other day when Cagematch was still up and overall attendance was up compared to last year. The BoSJ narrative holds absolutely no water. It's easy to look at the shows he's headlined and say "See? He's not a big draw", but he's drawn great crowds headlining shows with weak undercards and missing talent (like Tanahashi at Dominion). Today's another example. If Naito sneaks his way into the main event of WK 11 and they somehow get a weaker crowd than this year then Naito can start taking some blame. I don't see that happening, though.

[King Of Indy Style]

[ceftaxias]

So when is Rocky leaving? Took the fall in a match that had Henare in it.

[InYourCase]

Wait, are people saying Naito isn't a draw because of BOSJ crowds?

BOSJ never draws. Ever.

None of that is on Naito and I'm far from being a Naito cheerleader.

[Joe Lanza]

Where is the evidence that Naito ISN'T a draw?

Most if not all of his main events are either down slightly, flat, or up a little. With way less underneath than the year prior, and weaker opponents as NJPW is still building the next wave of stars underneath.

I don't know how anyone can look at the evidence and conclude that Naito hasn't been a good draw. Not to mention LIJ merch has easily been the most popular merch in the company.

[Joe Lanza]

So when is Rocky leaving? Took the fall in a match that had Henare in it.

I'm glad someone else has taken notice. Rocky has been eating pins left & right, and Trent always scores the pins when they win.

I've been screaming about this and nobody is listening!

[jesse]

So when is Rocky leaving? Took the fall in a match that had Henare in it.

I'm glad someone else has taken notice. Rocky has been eating pins left & right, and Trent always scores the pins when they win.

I've been screaming about this and nobody is listening!

I didn't really watch any of the Destruction shows but I saw people mention his Black Tiger mask is similar to the one they'll be using on the new Tiger Mask anime starting soon. Not saying that this is going to lead to Rocky turning heel and them doing some sort of tie in with all of that but it could be an explanation.

[Joe Lanza]

So when is Rocky leaving? Took the fall in a match that had Henare in it.

I'm glad someone else has taken notice. Rocky has been eating pins left & right, and Trent always scores the pins when they win.

I've been screaming about this and nobody is listening!

I didn't really watch any of the Destruction shows but I saw people mention his Black Tiger mask is similar to the one they'll be using on the new Tiger Mask anime starting soon. Not saying that this is going to lead to Rocky turning heel and them doing some sort of tie in with all of that but it could be an explanation.

I'd be perfectly fine with a Black Tiger run. I was hoping for a Rocky singles run when Koslov retired. He signed for two years in January, so he has a year+ left on his deal, so this isn't a case of jobbing on the way out. So who knows.

[suplexberry]

They teased a RPG Vice break-up but then they also challenged (w/ Ospreay) the NEVER trios belts so who the hell knows. Rocky can do a lot in singles, he always has flashes of brilliance in BOSJ besides just the usual "good hand in the ring" type of matches. He also seemed to piss off Tiger Mask in that tag they had, so that could be a good feud for the undercard.

NJPW Global twitter account is finally posting more than just show updates and promo (like Singapore soon), with the appropriately adorable little English goofs:

[EvanDeadlySins]

IWGP Heavyweight Championship: Kazuchika Okada (c) vs. Naomichi Marufuji

Tokyo Dome Contract: Kenny Omega (c) vs. Hirooki Goto

NEVER Openweight Championship: Katsuyori Shibata (c) vs. Kyle O'Reilly

Special 8-Man Tag: Hiroshi Tanahashi, Michael Elgin, KUSHIDA & Jay Lethal vs. Los Ingobernables de Japón (Tetsuya Naito, SANADA, EVIL & BUSHI)

IWGP Tag Team Championship: The Briscoes (Jay & Mark Briscoe) (c) vs. Guerrillas of Destiny (Tama Tonga & Tanga Loa)

IWGP Junior Heavyweight Tag Team Championship: The Young Bucks (Matt & Nick Jackson) (c) vs. Ricochet & David Finlay

NJPW vs. NOAH Special 8-Man Tag: Yuji Nagata, Manabu Nakanishi, Hiroyoshi Tenzan & Satoshi Kojima vs. Go Shiozaki, Katsuhiko Nakajima, Maybach Taniguchi & Masa Kitamiya

Togi Makabe, Tomoaki Honma, Ryusuke Taguchi & Bobby Fish vs. CHAOS (Toru Yano, Rocky Romero, Beretta & Gedo)

CHAOS (Tomohiro Ishii, YOSHI-HASHI & Will Ospreay) vs. Bullet Club (Adam Cole, Bad Luck Fale & Yujiro Takahashi)

Pre-show TV Anime "Tiger Mask W" Special Crossover Match: Tiger Mask W vs. Red Death Mask

Also, Captain New Japan is going by the new name BONE SOLDIER. He wrestles a singles match against Yoshitatsu in Taiwan.

And about this, I'm intrigued, needless to say. On the whole, I like this card on paper more than last year's.

[Danwaka]

I'm super hyped for Yoshitatsu vs. Bone Soldier.

[jesse]

That's a pretty weak Sumo Hall card that. The main appeal is NOAH vs New Japan but when NOAH can't draw 1000 to Korakuen for a title defense I'm not sure how well this is going to work out.

Heaven help them if they really do Lethal vs Naito at Power Struggle.

[Tigerkinney]

Regardless of the quality of the card, I would be super hyped for King of Pro Wrestling, as I'll actually be there That being said I think it looks a pretty solid card, without looking like a blow away show on paper. How good the show ends up being, pretty much depends on how the top three matches deliver.

Not surprised Jesse is already shitting on the card , but I'm used to him being hyper-critical when it comes to New Japan. I'm not saying NJPW does nothing wrong and that Gedo is a perfect booker. Shitty treatment of the IWGP Tag titles being the prime example. I'm just not one for nitpicking every booking decision Gedo makes and being a doom and gloom merchant. All in all my enjoyment level of New Japan right now, is probably around the same level as Joe Lanza.

IWGP Heavyweight Championship: Kazuchika Okada (c) vs. Naomichi Marufuji

- I was already pretty hyped for this main event as they had a great match at the G-1 and I'm sure they'll deliver again.

Tokyo Dome Contract: Kenny Omega (c) vs. Hirooki Goto

- Whilst it is a bit groan worthy that perennial choke artist Goto gets yet another shot at a significant prize (only to fail again!)- their G-1 Finals match was excellent. Provided that Omega keeps the goofiness toned down, they have the potential to deliver another excellent match.

NEVER Openweight Championship: Katsuyori Shibata (c) vs. Kyle O'Reilly

- Provided that Shibata actually makes it to the ring, this should be an excellent match. I think O'Reilly has a big chance of coming away the champion here, as I can see them wanting to take the belt off Shibata, to either help him rest up his banged up body or to transition him into the NJPW vs NOAH feud.

Special 8-Man Tag: Hiroshi Tanahashi, Michael Elgin, KUSHIDA & Jay Lethal vs. Los Ingobernables de Japón (Tetsuya Naito, SANADA, EVIL & BUSHI)

- Surprised that we weren't getting the BUSHI vs KUSHIDA rematch on the card, but it probably works out better they save that one for Power Struggle. Anyway this actually has the potential to be a really great match, as LIJ are consistently good in multi-man tags. It will also be interesting to see how Lethal performs on the babyface side against his former associates. Lethal really needs to impress here, as he no longer has the excuse of the heel character and blatant cheating holding him back from showing his full potential.

IWGP Tag Team Championship: The Briscoes (Jay & Mark Briscoe) (c) vs. Guerrillas of Diarrhea (Tama Tonga & Tanga Loa)

- How convenient of Mr Gedo to book this match just before intermission, as that means I can get a head start on making a visit to the washroom. Unfortunately I think the worlds most boring tag team will come away with the belts here. Just when we all thought Gedo had seen sense and was jobbing this dumpster fire of a team down the card to Captain New Japan levels of irrelevance, he has to torture the NJPW and starts pushing them again.

IWGP Junior Heavyweight Tag Team Championship: The Young Bucks (Matt & Nick Jackson) (c) vs. Ricochet & David Finlay

- It's a fresh match up! It's a rare 2vs2 Junior Tag Team match! And on paper it has the potential to be a good match! Three things to get pretty excited about. I doubt that the Bucks drop the belts here, as I just can't see Finlay becoming a NEVER Six Man champ and and IWGP Junior Tag champ in the space of a couple of weeks since his graduation from Young Lion status.

NJPW vs. NOAH Special 8-Man Tag: Yuji Nagata, Manabu Nakanishi, Hiroyoshi Tenzan & Satoshi Kojima vs. Go Shiozaki, Katsuhiko Nakajima, Maybach Taniguchi & Masa Kitamiya

- This one depends on how much fire they bring to this match. In all honesty I'll be more interested in this NJPW vs NOAH feud once it moves beyond being the NJPW Dad's vs NOAH.

Togi Makabe, Tomoaki Honma, Ryusuke Taguchi & Bobby Fish vs. CHAOS (Toru Yano, Rocky Romero, Beretta & Gedo)

- Not much to say about this one, other than it's obviously just there to be a get some people on the show undercard tag.

CHAOS (Tomohiro Ishii, YOSHI-HASHI & Will Ospreay) vs. Bullet Club (Adam Cole, Bad Luck Fale & Yujiro Takahashi)

- Has the potential to at least be an OK opener, mainly due to the CHAOS team.... Also as mediocre as he is, Yujiro is actually much more tolerable in undercard tag matches than he would be if he was being put into featured singles matches. Plus I'm not ashamed to admit that I will be looking forward to seeing his companions.

Pre-show TV Anime "Tiger Mask W" Special Crossover Match: Tiger Mask W vs. Red Death Mask

- As a big anime fan I'm actually intrigued by this, so I'm going to make sure I get into Sumo Hall early enough to catch this.

[jesse]

Regardless of the quality of the card, I would be super hyped for King of Pro Wrestling, as I'll actually be there That being said I think it looks a pretty solid card, without looking like a blow away show on paper. How good the show ends up being, pretty much depends on how the top three matches deliver.

Not surprised Jesse is already shitting on the card , but I'm used to him being hyper-critical when it comes to New Japan. I've got my issues with NJPW (shitty booking of the IWGP Tag titles), I'm just not one for nitpicking every booking decision Gedo makes and being a doom and gloom merchant. All in all my enjoyment level of New Japan right now, is probably around the same level as Joe Lanza.

I'm not a man and I'm not being hyper-critical. Let me type it in all caps to make it clear.

THIS IS A VERY WEAK CARD TO DRAW A SELL OUT TO SUMO HALL.