NJPW (Discussion)

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PKThree
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by PKThree » Sun Sep 25, 2016 2:15 pm

wac wrote:Poor Matt's been in the LAX baggage claim for five days
Do they keep him with the animals? Shacked up between a Doberman and a delivery of turtle eggs for the LA Zoo

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sivapc
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by sivapc » Sun Sep 25, 2016 2:58 pm

Naito has taken Nakamura's IC title gatekeeper position. Big enough to main event, but can't win the main title because golden boy needs to be in the title picture all the time without being usurped someone more popular.

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Danwaka
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Danwaka » Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:17 pm

Captain New Japan turns on Yoshitatsu, but it's a ruse, because he's secretly infiltrating the group and is their insider. Once Tatsu has all the info he needs, CNJ turns on the Biz Cliz and reunites with Tatsu, stating that this was their plan all along. Thus they destroy the group from inside out, making the two losers of NJPW achieving their goal of "deleting" Bullet Club.

A feat that no one could achieve, Tatsu then feuds with the top tier members while CNJ finally stops losing matches and deal with the lower tier members. The implosion of one of the most popular factions in the world sends a shock throughout the worldwide IWC, that a Japanese Captain America wannabe who never wins a match and YOSHI FUCKING TATSU put an end to the Bullet Club,perhaps once and for all.
I want to believe.

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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Rainmaker_F7 » Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:20 pm

jesse wrote:There's no show to build any matches between now and KOPW so the card should be out soon.

Looks like as far as title matches are concerned:
Okada/Marufuji
Shibata/KOR
GOD/Briscoes
Cozy, Ricochet and Finlay vs RPG Vice and Ospreay

That's.....not a lot.
KUSHIDA/BUSHI rematch probably? Also I was really thinking they will have Goto pin Omega to set up their match, but I guess this is not happening just yet. Obviously Tana & Elgin & co will face LIJ, and that still leaves Ishii, Y-H, Honma, Makabe, Omega, Bucks, Cole, and I guess couple of other NOAH guys could be on the show though, since Maru is main eventing.

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jesse
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by jesse » Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:44 pm

Rainmaker_F7 wrote:
jesse wrote:There's no show to build any matches between now and KOPW so the card should be out soon.

Looks like as far as title matches are concerned:
Okada/Marufuji
Shibata/KOR
GOD/Briscoes
Cozy, Ricochet and Finlay vs RPG Vice and Ospreay

That's.....not a lot.
KUSHIDA/BUSHI rematch probably? Also I was really thinking they will have Goto pin Omega to set up their match, but I guess this is not happening just yet. Obviously Tana & Elgin & co will face LIJ, and that still leaves Ishii, Y-H, Honma, Makabe, Omega, Bucks, Cole, and I guess couple of other NOAH guys could be on the show though, since Maru is main eventing.
None of this is very exciting for a Sumo Hall show. It's essentially going to draw based on Okada and Marufuji. I forgot about Goto and Omega but that isn't anything to jump up and down about anyway.
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Rainmaker_F7
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Rainmaker_F7 » Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:57 pm

I think we should just wait for the official announcement of the KOPW card, which I guess will happen tomorrow morning.

Also I can't wait for Kushida to beat Bushi in Bushi's 1st title defense. Twitter will explode.

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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by EvanDeadlySins » Sun Sep 25, 2016 4:33 pm

sivapc wrote:Naito has taken Nakamura's IC title gatekeeper position. Big enough to main event, but can't win the main title because golden boy needs to be in the title picture all the time without being usurped someone more popular.
Something tells me that nobody is afraid of "golden boy being usurped by someone more popular." Okada's in the top mix for as long as he wants to be, why would anyone care if he gets outpopped from time to time? And if Naito's on that level of drawing, which I would say he is, why wouldn't you put him in a position to take advantage of it?

I swear, if Gedo wasn't Okada's kayfabe manager, people wouldn't develop narratives about Gedo being a fanboy of him to such an extent that he must hold the spotlight at anyone else's expense.

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pol
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by pol » Sun Sep 25, 2016 4:48 pm

I don't know how you interpret Naito's half-assed IWGP Heavy run as anything other than throwing the fans of the more over guy a bone so they can course-correct and proceed with their Okada plans in the fall. It's clear he's the guy they want in main events regardless of if other guys prove to be more popular. I'm not even saying they're necessarily wrong to do that (all the WWE talk of having a guy who can represent the company on talk shows etc. does have some merit to it), but it's clearly the case.

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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by jesse » Sun Sep 25, 2016 4:56 pm

The counter point is Naito is 34 years old. Why aren't New Japan taking advantage of him on the top of the promotion when he's at his peak in terms of ability and drawing power? No matter how much people want to spin the IC title the fact is it's seen as the lesser belt and being secondary to the Heavyweight belt.

Part of the reason the fans connect to Naito is because they've seen his struggles at various stages. Naito's been a Jr and HW tag champ, NEVER champ, IC champ and HW champ. Meanwhile Okada has only been place at the very top of the company for practically the entire time he's come back from his excursion. We're going on 5 years of Okada never moving down the card in any meaningful fashion.

This is the 2nd time New Japan have put the IC title on someone who's very clearly the most popular figure in the company instead of going with them as the face of the promotion. You can argue as to if that's right or wrong but it's the fact.
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Danwaka
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Danwaka » Sun Sep 25, 2016 5:31 pm

jesse wrote:This is the 2nd time New Japan have put the IC title on someone who's very clearly the most popular figure in the company instead of going with them as the face of the promotion. You can argue as to if that's right or wrong but it's the fact.
But Hiroshi Tanahashi isn't the IC Champion.

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Frank Olson
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Frank Olson » Sun Sep 25, 2016 5:48 pm

The undercard on today's show was actually really eventful. The opening 6-man between Taguchi/Tiger/Henare and RPG Vice/Ospreay was as good as these prelim openers get (I would happily watch Taguchi and Ospreay wrestle each other at every major NJPW event from now until Wrestle Kingdom) and it was very interesting that Romero took the fall when the other team had a young lion on it (and when it looks like his own team may be challenging for the 6-man titles next). The breakup of the Bullet Club Hunters happened, which I don't personally care that much about but I guess it's more interesting than what they were doing before. Kanemitsu looked appropriately fired up for his first appearance on a major show, and I was glad that he and Honma worked 90% of their tag match while their partners Tenzan and Makabe were mostly just there for moral support. Kyle O'Reilly forced giant heavyweight Nakanishi to tap out. The NEVER 6-man match was probably the second-best match of the night, behind the main event, with a genuinely funny failed brainbuster spot from the Bucks and Adam Cole. Cole is really putting a lot more effort into getting over in Japan than Lethal did, and it seems to be working so far. Fill-in Finlay issuing a Jr Tag Title challenge to the Bucks after the match was pretty interesting too. I'm kind of worried about Sydal's future with the company now, which is a shame because he's so much fun to watch.

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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by STAP. » Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:34 pm

Are there any numbers to back up Naito being this huge draw?.. Invasion Attack was his most impressive draw, but other than that there is nothing to be impressed by, numbers have gone down compared to previously years, in fact. Styles drew more than him and he was a virtually unknown gaijin thrust into the main event.

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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Rainmaker_F7 » Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:39 pm

I mean, this show was Naito-Elgin and 8 tag matches. Last year you had Nakamura-Goto, Tanahashi-Fale and Naito-Shibata, and this year was only 700 people less.

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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by EvanDeadlySins » Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:46 pm

STAP. wrote:Are there any numbers to back up Naito being this huge draw?.. Invasion Attack was his most impressive draw, but other than that there is nothing to be impressed by, numbers have gone down compared to previously years, in fact. Styles drew more than him and he was a virtually unknown gaijin thrust into the main event.
And also, Dominion only lost 1475 with Okada/Naito compared to Okada/Styles but also having Tanahashi and Nakamura underneath, and Naito mostly unestablished as a draw. So losing Tana, Nakamura, and AJ, and only losing like 10% of attendance? Not bad.

Regarding the whole IC belt thing, because of what NJPW's doing with the split shows, the person who's the Intercontinental Champion and relied on to draw for those secondary shows will usually be someone who wouldn't be out of place fighting for the Heavyweight title. It just matters who you want it to be. It could easily be Tanahashi next year with Naito moving back to the Heavyweight picture.

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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by jesse » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:08 pm

I think the point is why can't Okada be the IC champ and move someone new into the HW position. Okada's had a grand total of one heavyweight tag title challenge since the Rainmaker thing. I guess you could make the point they don't have a big enough face to put into that role but then again that's an issue due to booking. They've had 5 years since Okada's been back to have him help make someone and they've never done it.
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