NJPW (Discussion)

Talk Puro, Lucha, Europe and "I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN AUSTRALIA/PACIFIC ISLANDS/CARIBBEAN/AFRICA"
User avatar
Joe Lanza
Site Admin
Posts: 2732
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:00 pm

Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Joe Lanza » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:03 pm

Omega is probably going to lose the title before WK anyway. I'd be pretty surprised if the main event isn't Naito vs Okada.

User avatar
PW17
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:50 pm

Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by PW17 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:27 am

Joe Lanza wrote:Omega is probably going to lose the title before WK anyway. I'd be pretty surprised if the main event isn't Naito vs Okada.
It might be, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was held for 2020 either.

User avatar
Heather
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:15 pm
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Heather » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:50 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if they did Omega/Okada at WK this year. The Ace wins at the Dome right? I can see Okada reclaiming his kingdom at that time. I'm curious what the plan is for the IC title, as they usually don't go right to the automatic rematch. Jericho went after 2 faction heads (Bullet Club and Los Ingobernables de Japon) so does he go for the head of Suzuki-gun (probably not because of the Ishii British heavyweight title match)? Or is this Tana's way back to the championship? Or someone new?

User avatar
OptionZero
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:14 pm

Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by OptionZero » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:34 pm

Joe Lanza wrote:Omega is probably going to lose the title before WK anyway. I'd be pretty surprised if the main event isn't Naito vs Okada.
Are we sure about that?

Okada had a history, damn near 2 year reign. To follow that up with a mere 6 month reign seems . . . inappropriate.

Okada/Naito at WK13 - for that to happen, Omega must drop the belt. G1 will take up the 2 months. Destruction in September is too small a show. That leaves King of Pro Wrestling, which would be about a 5 month reign - even shorter. Is that really enough to follow-up?

Is Okada guaranteed a G1 win? is that the best story? An immediate bounce back?

On the other hand, we have Ibushi sitting there as a potential opponent. They can do a heel turn, but that doesn't seems too . . . simple? too easy? And in my opinion, it's too soon to end the Golden Lovers reunion.

Both Okada regaining his title and Omega fighting Ibushi seem like stories t hat need more than 6 months to fully realize their potential. We know Gedo and NJPW loves that long term story telling.

I want Omega to have a 1 year reign and carry this belt for a while, I think he's earned it.

Isn't there mileage in an Okada tumble? All that fishing and chilling crap before Dominion seems to be great fodder for the story that Okada got too big for his britches and has to find himself again. Running through G1 is a real quick turn around for me.

How bout a new opponent for Omega that can let Naito, Ibushi, and Okada all simmer for more than 6 months.

Gimme Zach Sabre Jr vs. Kenny Omega, Wrestle Kingdom 13. How's that for "international expansion" ?!!!

That leaves massive story lines that build up for a huuuge 2019 or even 2020

Okada redemption
Omega - Ibushi fall out
Naito uber tranquilo

User avatar
BoxingRobes
VOW Staff Member
Posts: 1502
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:02 pm

Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by BoxingRobes » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:44 pm

I think its pretty easy to transition elsewhere beyond Omega. I think Okada's reign built up the idea that it'll take a historic performance to beat him. The resiliency factor was the big takeaway for most of his run. The narrative of when will his body finally let someone catch him.

You can do the same thing with Omega, and you can speed it up, too, since he put so much of his life and body on the line to beat Okada. As you move on to his next big defenses...big matches with some longer form matches could yield a 2-3 event arc where the Okada match took just too much out of him. As he laid out in the post-match interview...he knew his limit was an hour, he was just playing mind games with Okada.

You can have Okada drop down, take a little break, and have him regain the title after you let Omega run with it over the summer. Or, you can have someone like Naito get it while you have Okada win the G1. There are plenty of things to do with this that gives Omega a short run while they do the United States but ultimately end up back with it on Okada by New Years Dash.

User avatar
Buzz Sawyer
Posts: 519
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:42 pm

Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Buzz Sawyer » Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:25 pm

Bad Luck Fale should get a run with the title.
Who's Rob Viper ?

User avatar
frankpellow
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:23 am

Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by frankpellow » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:17 pm

Is it just me or has the quality of the Young Lions' matches fallen away since the turn of the year?
I know we lost Kawato San to excursion and Kitamura to injury or firing or some other third thing but the recent Lions Project shows haven't done much for me. Umino can be the sole reason to watch them and i guess he'll be off soon as he has surely reached the ceiling of being a YL.

User avatar
mezomi
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:53 am

Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by mezomi » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:26 am

frankpellow wrote:Is it just me or has the quality of the Young Lions' matches fallen away since the turn of the year?
I know we lost Kawato San to excursion and Kitamura to injury or firing or some other third thing but the recent Lions Project shows haven't done much for me. Umino can be the sole reason to watch them and i guess he'll be off soon as he has surely reached the ceiling of being a YL.
I disagree with this. The Lions Gate shows have always been hit or miss, with one or two guys propping them up. Recently, it happens to be Shota, with Oka being not too bad himself. None of them have really been spotlighted as much as Kawato has besides Unimo. Yagi and Narita are both great from what I have seen, and I am exited to see more of both once spots open up. I like Oka more than most, but I agree he lacks something. I feel that he will open up a bit once he graduates since he is developing a drastically different style from the rest, so the system is restricting him quite a bit. I think with everything happening this year, overall the young lions have been given less time to shine on the undercards. The Lions Gate shows have always been hit or miss, with one or two guys propping them up. Recently, it happens to be Shota, with Oka being not too bad himself.

User avatar
frankpellow
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:23 am

Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by frankpellow » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:49 am

mezomi wrote:
frankpellow wrote:Is it just me or has the quality of the Young Lions' matches fallen away since the turn of the year?
I know we lost Kawato San to excursion and Kitamura to injury or firing or some other third thing but the recent Lions Project shows haven't done much for me. Umino can be the sole reason to watch them and i guess he'll be off soon as he has surely reached the ceiling of being a YL.
I disagree with this. The Lions Gate shows have always been hit or miss, with one or two guys propping them up. Recently, it happens to be Shota, with Oka being not too bad himself. None of them have really been spotlighted as much as Kawato has besides Unimo. Yagi and Narita are both great from what I have seen, and I am exited to see more of both once spots open up. I like Oka more than most, but I agree he lacks something. I feel that he will open up a bit once he graduates since he is developing a drastically different style from the rest, so the system is restricting him quite a bit. I think with everything happening this year, overall the young lions have been given less time to shine on the undercards. The Lions Gate shows have always been hit or miss, with one or two guys propping them up. Recently, it happens to be Shota, with Oka being not too bad himself.
I think you are right about Oka perhaps not fitting the Young Lion role too well. I remember seeing him versus one of the younger young lions recently, the sadistic joy he was getting stretching and beating the kid got me thinking he might be a good fit as a Suzuki Goon when he returns from excursion. He certainly put a lot of work into developing his body but he doesn't seem to connect with the crowd very well (something he may develop during his time away).

User avatar
rollup
Posts: 497
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:02 am
Location: Asia

Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by rollup » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:10 pm

as expected the G1 lineup had no surprises , unless you count hangman page in

also fairly confident that Ibushi will be block A and Suzuki in block B

User avatar
Frank Olson
Posts: 561
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 1:42 am
Location: Milwaukee WI

Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Frank Olson » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:50 pm

I've seen some talk on Twitter that the NEVER Title match was Match of the Year level. I don't know, for me that Taichi run-in/Cobb save sequence really threw me out of the match and I never fully got back into it. It just seemed totally pointless, and really isn't the kind of thing I want to see in the middle of what is otherwise a no-nonsense, smashmouth type of match. I could see that the wrestling throughout the rest of the match was very high end, but I just couldn't connect with it. It was interesting to see Elgin use his new smaller frame to pull out some surprisingly agile offense (like those leaping stomps) and I am always a fan of the GTR/Reverse GTR combo that Goto finishes opponents with (because it makes me feel like his opponent is actually getting executed) but overall I had high hopes that the match didn't meet, and I think a lot of that has to do with the booking rather than the work of the two men in the ring. Goto vs. Cobb has the potential to be pretty great though, even if the Korakuen crowd didn't really react to it.

Anyway, a few preliminary thoughts on the G1 participant announcements...

- Overall I think it's a strong if unsurprising field. As rollup said Hangman Page was the only slightly surprising entrant, but I don't think there's any real dead weight in the lineup either, so I can't really complain. I'll always take “predictable but high quality” over “surprising but nonsensical.”

- I'm a little surprised that Taichi didn't make the cut. I wonder if that means that the New Japan office was disappointed in his high profile matches with Naito and Tanahashi earlier this year. I figured that he might be the “night off” guy in one block while Yano would serve that function in the other block, but I guess not. Whatever the reason, I'm glad that he didn't make it.

- I would've preferred to see David Finlay in this tournament rather than Tama Tonga. I like Tama as a midcard guy, but his performances in the 2016 and 2017 G1s didn't exactly blow me away, and he's obviously mostly just going to be there to job, so if you need a wrestler to fill that spot I'd rather it be a hungry young guy than someone who's already shown us what their ceiling is for match quality. I thought that with Henare now occupying the "Taguchi Japan jobber" slot that maybe Finlay would get a run in this year's tournament, but I guess it wasn't meant to be.

- I know that some people wish that YOSHI-HASHI hadn't made the cut again, but while he'll be another bottom feeder point-wise I feel that he usually tries hard and can reliably pull off at least one or two great matches in this type of setting (such as his Omega match in the 2016 G1, the Nagata match last year, or the Ibushi New Japan Cup match). So while I agree that he isn't the most exciting announcement in this group I also don't mind him being there.

- I really hope that Tanahashi, Makabe, and Fale aren't all in the same block together like they were in 2015, 2016 and 2017. I'm not the type to complain about rematches, but I've seen every combination of these three more than enough times. My preference would be to have Tanahashi and Fale in the same block (since that is the one combination that usually produces good matches) and Makabe separate from them.

- Speaking of Fale, I'm interested to see how he wrestles with his new, slimmed-down frame. I think he's kind of an underrated (if inconsistent) worker anyway, but losing weight like he has seems like it can only help. It will be interesting to see how he does points-wise as well, since he's definitely taken a backseat so far this year (to the point that he wasn't even on Dominion).

- I'm still not clear what Gedo sees in Hangman Page, as I really don't think he has the it factor to ever truly be a big star. But he has definitely stepped his in-ring game up a lot this year and getting this experience is only going to help him continue to improve. I hope that he and Ibushi wind up in the same block so that they can have a rematch of their excellent Wrestlemania weekend bout.

- Jay White is probably the competitor I'm most excited for in this year's tournament. He has so many fresh matchups regardless of who he winds up in a block with. Plus his character is booked in a way where he could really win or lose against anyone, so his matches should be pretty unpredictable. It wouldn't seem weird for him to outsmart Okada or for him to get rolled up by YOSHI-HASHI.

- I mentioned this after Dominion, but I really want a ZSJ/Yano match, so I hope they wind up in the same block, and that Omega is in that same block with them (since the Omega/Yano matches are always a fun change of pace, and since it's hard to even conceive of what a ZSJ/Omega match would look like).

User avatar
mrjoshdude
Posts: 213
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:04 pm

Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by mrjoshdude » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:18 pm

I love the G1 because it gives unproven guys a chance to make it or break it. Yujiro couldn't hack it and now he's out, Honma and Ishii took the opportunity and ran with it. Now Hangman Page has that chance. There's honestly no better proving ground to show people that don't see it what you're made of. I agree about Tama not being in it, the guys is average at best in the ring and is maybe the worst guy in the tournament depending on how you feel about Yano. I think it's time to give up on Tama as a singles guy. He's bad on the mic, poor in the ring, and doesn't have any real presence or charisma. Just keep him with his brother and away from the G1. Would much rather see Taichi, Finlay, or an outsider get the chance.

Bloodbuzz Bunk
Posts: 209
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:50 pm

Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Bloodbuzz Bunk » Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:10 pm

Lost in all the G1 field announcement hoopla today was the frigging barn burner between Goto and Elgin. I came in expecting a moderately paced hoss fight and instead got an excellent paced war to the death. That was the ideal NEVER style match that I love. I might be high but it’s 4.5 maybe 4.75 star match and is only drug down by the Taichi interference.

The G1 field is great as usual and I’m happy Page got in since he has stepped up and delivered this year. I do think we have to examine Yoshi-Hashi, Tama Tonga this year and really consider if they are worth being in over Finaly, Taichi, Yujiro, and Henare. You could easily expand the field to fit all of these guys but really these six are the pin eaters of the midcard/low card and should rotated for freshness. I’m just not sure I’m ready to give Tama and Yoshi life time passes.

User avatar
Leo C
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:09 pm
Location: São Paulo, Brazil
Contact:

Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Leo C » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:29 pm

I'm fine with YOSHI-HASHI being in as the guy has had some very good singles matches ever since he was given a shot. I mean, earlier this year he had that awesome Ibushi match, plus his G1 matches with guys like Omega and Nagata (just to name a few) were also very good. Some of this stuff is in the 4 1/2 * range for me, and I believe that is the general consensus on it. But when did Tama Tonga have a singles match that good? Like, ever? He's had singles matches with guys like Okada, Tanahashi, Omega, Ishii, Marufuji, Suzuki, Elgin... does anyone remember any of those matches as standing out? The only one I really remember being near the upper 4 range is the Elgin match and I'm not even sure about that. Granted, maybe some of the guys see him as a night off and don't try that hard, but that's no excuse. Seriously. And they even feel like they have to kinda give him some wins, it's not like he's the last guy on the block or anything. I'd much rather a guy like Henare go 1-8 or 0-9 or whatever and look great in defeat while putting others over than seeing Tama just exist, have OK matches and nothing to come out of it. Maybe I'm being too hard on the guy, but if we're keeping Archer and DBS out on the premise that they're just tag guys might as well leave Tama out of it too.

Bloodbuzz Bunk
Posts: 209
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:50 pm

Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Bloodbuzz Bunk » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:09 pm

Leo C wrote:I'm fine with YOSHI-HASHI being in as the guy has had some very good singles matches ever since he was given a shot. I mean, earlier this year he had that awesome Ibushi match, plus his G1 matches with guys like Omega and Nagata (just to name a few) were also very good. Some of this stuff is in the 4 1/2 * range for me, and I believe that is the general consensus on it. But when did Tama Tonga have a singles match that good? Like, ever? He's had singles matches with guys like Okada, Tanahashi, Omega, Ishii, Marufuji, Suzuki, Elgin... does anyone remember any of those matches as standing out? The only one I really remember being near the upper 4 range is the Elgin match and I'm not even sure about that. Granted, maybe some of the guys see him as a night off and don't try that hard, but that's no excuse. Seriously. And they even feel like they have to kinda give him some wins, it's not like he's the last guy on the block or anything. I'd much rather a guy like Henare go 1-8 or 0-9 or whatever and look great in defeat while putting others over than seeing Tama just exist, have OK matches and nothing to come out of it. Maybe I'm being too hard on the guy, but if we're keeping Archer and DBS out on the premise that they're just tag guys might as well leave Tama out of it too.
I totally agree. I think that Gedo wasn’t quite ready to give up on him yet but in general I agree with your conclusions about him( really good tag guy but never has a stand out singles performance). I think his position of seniority has given these G1 opportunities but if he duds out again I could see him getting “Yujiro’d” in favor of Taichi or Finlay etc.

Post Reply