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Ckkj14
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Ckkj14 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:16 am

Danwaka wrote:That seemed completely worked to me, tbh. I doubt Jay would have brought up Brandi without Brandi or Cody being cool with it.
I think Cody was legit pissed. No idea why, if he is going to include Brandi in his act he has to expect it. White promo was awesome too

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Heather
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Heather » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:59 pm

White was so good there! If Cody was legit pissed then that's his problem...
I hope someone got Page some aloe...

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King Of Indy Style
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by King Of Indy Style » Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:26 am

Jay White is so fun as the asshole shitstirrer.
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syxxpakk
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by syxxpakk » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:41 pm

Shame he can't come through in the big match though.

Thought SSE was really good, with a phenomenal MOTYC in the main.
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mlev76
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by mlev76 » Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:44 pm

After all my attempts to get AXS last night failed (didn't know we even had the capability to have it), woke and watched the main event. Excellent match, right up there with Omega/Jericho in terms of my favorite New Japan match this year. I think what held it back from being a five star match for me was one, I don't think the whole back issue worked in the context of the match. Yes, it is pretty impressive that Matt has kept his issues with his back going since Wrestle Kingdom, but in the context of the match, where Matt and then Nick were ready to put Kenny through a table, them being pissed at Kenny for going after Matt didn't make much sense. The other thing was the commentary. Fair or not, Ross and Barnett only scratched the surface of the underlying story and really didn't do the deep dive that this match deserved given what was built up. I don't think they were bad as much as they didn't add to the match.

What else is must see from the show?

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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Bloodbuzz Bunk » Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:34 pm

Very solid show last night, especially the last three matches.

Suzuki/Sabre v Okada/Ishii was the least ambitious of the three but it was worked the cleanest and everyone in the match worked hard to forward the story of ZSJ softening up Okada. Okada and Ishii's selling was phenomenal.

White v Hangman suffered because the crowd did not buy them in their spot but eventually they won the crowd over. Hangman really shined in this match but overall the match could have used a more cohesive story than big move escalation due to frustration. White in particular looked a little shook that the crowd was determined to save the heat for the main event. If there was any advice going forward for White it would be to play to the crowd more and shit talk a little more. White is great shit talker as evidenced by his promos, he needs to focus on doing that more and selling a little bit less. You can tell that this shift from wrestling as a white meat baby face in peril against bigger stars to a slimy heel who goes 50/50 with everybody has been a huge adjustment for him. He just needs to lean into his strengths and bark at people while pounding them and save the dazed stare till the end of the match.

Main event was excellent and while it wasn't my match of the year it was the second five star match for NJPW( behind a severely underrated Naito v Okada match imo). Even though it was sloppy in spots the whole match was great and everything is pretty much perfect from springboard German suplex off of Kenny's shoulders onward. Let's hope Kenny doesn't have a broken orbital bone because that would put Kenny in the predicament of having to chose between gutting out Supercard of Honor or in jeopardy of missing Dominion.

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OptionZero
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by OptionZero » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:31 pm

Page/Switchblade had good in-ring work that was technically sound, periodically interrupted by . . . INSANE spots that should have earned pops.

What was missing was some juice, some glue to tie the work and spots together with the ending stretch. They came out slugging and then turned into a fairly methodical back and forth that killed any momentum, which was disappointing given the heat from the pre-match promos. White isn't over in the US yet, likely bc his best work is subtle and done in backstage/out of ring promos

I thought they had an easy solution: put Cody ringside, at least part of the time. He doesn't need to be physically involved, just having him heeling the crowd and supporting Page would have done two things:

1) triggered reactions
2) set up a feud with White

even having him for 5 min in the middle hyping up Page would have solved alot of stuff. Maybe he tries to distract Switchblade and eats a punch or something quick and easy. Something to elevate the crowd woulda been real helpful

Main event:
I need a cigarette, and I don't smoke. That was insanity, and i thought we were headed toward a murder

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DylanWaco
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by DylanWaco » Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:17 pm

The show was solid. It felt really long and needlessly so given how few of the matches felt special. That said there was nothing I could really call bad on the show other than the production and the main event was great even if it was worked in a style I don't love. I liked the Suzuki/ZSJ v. Ishii/Okada tag, and the finish was smart but kind of screwed by the way it was shot. Didn't think it was even close to a great match though. Dug the 8 man spotfest for what it was, especially the Hiromu and Dragon Lee stuff. The surprise of the show was KES v Yano and Chuck Taylor which was quite good for a throwaway under card tag with a killer team v. a comedic team (I know Chuck isn't straight comedy in NJ but still). It was cool to see Liger and he looked great, but I didn't really like the way Ospreay worked the match. I did not think Page v. White was a bad match really, but it badly exposed both the flaw of NJPWs need to have every feature match go long, and how terribly NOT over White is. The rest of the show was just sort of their which is fine. It was a one match show on paper after Rey got hurt, and really that one match was always going to define how most people viewed it. To that end it was a success. If I was rating the show on the five star scale I'd probably give it 3 or 3 1/4 stars.

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Jacob's Bawks
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Jacob's Bawks » Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:26 pm

I'm actually really high on the Page/White match. Its flaws with the atmosphere, length, and layout are apparent but I still kept with it and enjoyed it even when it slowed down to a bunch of selling. Individual parts were sold badly but the exhaustion and WILL TO WIN(!!!) I thought were well done. I do, however, take big issue with White's use of big neck-bump moves over-and-over that got tired at the end and in a match that wasn't heated enough to earn it. Though again they were playing to the dead crowd and not the guy at home with his pops who didn't need waking-up.

White's not excelling in his role the way he needs to be. I thought Page was the better man here.
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Frank Olson
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Frank Olson » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:28 am

I liked the White/Page match overall, but that moment where Page was on the apron and clearly waiting for White to get in position for Page's slingshot clothesline was really awkward. It reminded me of the Wrestle Kingdom moment where White went to the top rope and he and Tanahashi clearly had a miscommunication about whatever that was supposed to be. I love the Switchblade character (evidently a lot more than everybody in Long Beach) but it seems to me that White does need to get better at improvising in the ring if he's going to be a true top of the card guy. You never see Okada, Naito, Omega or Tanahashi freeze up the way that White has at moments in multiple big matches now. I like Bloodbuzz Bunk's idea of White yelling at his opponent as he's beating him down. I think a little more aggression in general would do wonders for his matches.

There doesn't seem to be much talk online about the Ospreay/Liger showdown, but I thought that was a really cool match. It's amazing that 53 year old Liger can still have matches of that quality. I thought Ospreay's selling was really exceptional too. He turned what I believe was a botched springboard move into a leg injury angle that played into pretty much everything he did in the match from the point onward. I thought this might have been Ospreay's best individual performance (though not necessarily the best overall match he's been involved in) of the year so far.

I thought the crowd really elevated a lot of the matches. Their love for my man Toru Yano warmed my heart. That Yano/Chuckie T vs. KES match wasn't really anything special in terms of sheer workrate or whatever, but the audience being so into everything made the match feel more exciting than I think it would've been in Korakuen. The Okada/Ishii vs. Sabre/Suzuki match likely would've been good regardless of audience investment, but I thought the crowd really helped that one out too. I think the whole "you elbow me in the face/now I elbow you in the face" trope is kind of tedious, but I loved the Ishii vs. Suzuki version of that in this match, largely because of the crowd's wise decision to shush everybody so that the impact of each strike would be more audible. The way that the crowd came alive for Ishii's amazing groggy selling at the end of that sequence, where he refused to go down but had to use the rope to hold himself up, was unbelievable.

The main event was bonkers and definitely delivered to expectations. I really need to rewatch it, because I was kind of distracted by realizing how late is what getting and that I really needed to go to bed so I could get some sleep before work today (I am a boring old man), but it was an amazing fusion of long-running storytelling and mind-blowing athleticism. There were some sloppy moments (and that GIF going around of Ibushi uncharacteristically botching the Golden Triangle Moonsault is kind of depressing) but overall this was easily the best heavyweight tag match that New Japan has put on since I started watching in 2015, and another great chapter in this fascinating Bullet Club civil war story.

The only thing on the show that was really a drag for me was the commentary. It's not just that JR and Barnett don't seem to be knowledgeable about the product (to the point that I would be shocked to find out that either of them have watched a second of anything from this year's New Japan shows aside from what they have called), but that they almost seem to have a weird contempt for it at times.

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suplexberry
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by suplexberry » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:45 am

Like Long Beach, I didn't hear a whole lot of the English commentary but what I did hear was plenty. Absolutely inexcusable. As was the TV production as a whole. Sloppy angles, missed spots, awkward lingering shots on random audience members for a second or two long, plus for whatever reason the sound seemed muted. I could tell the crowd was hot but only on occasion could I hear it.

The American timezone meant I couldn't really watch it uninterrupted, so I mainly saw bits and pieces. Liked the LIJ vs Taguchi Japan tag a lot. Very "Korakuen in America" vibe, which is what I think they wanted with a match like that. Ospreay vs Liger was fine, but felt like very much just a match. I thought the post-match promo dragged on and the production/set-up seemingly never knowing where to film hurt it a lot, but I hope Rey can live up to his word and the Cow Palace sure seems like the place to do it. I loved Rey vs Ospreay when it happened last year (in fact, it was 10 on my top 10) but it didn't really make me hanker for a sequel. I'd rather see Rey with somebody else in the jr division: Hiromu, KUSHIDA or one of RPG 3K.

I thought White vs Page wasn't a great idea to begin with but a good opportunity for both dudes to showcase what they got. Sadly, it seems that what they got isn't much. White seems to require a really good and game opponent, or somebody he has existing chemistry with (like Finlay) and Page just is neither. The more Page gets touted as improving (which may be the most faint yet honest praise you can heap on a guy) the less I see it. He does some flashy things that do not look that good, and everything else he does, from facial expressions to story-telling, selling, fundamentals, is mediocre as hell. If this seems harsh, so be it.

I saw 2/3 of the main event and the closing stretch and loved what I saw of it. Will definitely have to rewatch. Great story and character beats throughout, I can't wait to give it my full attention.

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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Bloodbuzz Bunk » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:20 am

Frank Olson wrote:I liked the White/Page match overall, but that moment where Page was on the apron and clearly waiting for White to get in position for Page's slingshot clothesline was really awkward. It reminded me of the Wrestle Kingdom moment where White went to the top rope and he and Tanahashi clearly had a miscommunication about whatever that was supposed to be. I love the Switchblade character (evidently a lot more than everybody in Long Beach) but it seems to me that White does need to get better at improvising in the ring if he's going to be a true top of the card guy. You never see Okada, Naito, Omega or Tanahashi freeze up the way that White has at moments in multiple big matches now. I like Bloodbuzz Bunk's idea of White yelling at his opponent as he's beating him down. I think a little more aggression in general would do wonders for his matches.
See I thought that was definitely a planned bit where Jay was staggered but clearly aware that he was being set up for the Buckshot so he lulled Page in for a counter. Otherwise why would Page clearly yell "Stay over there"? Seems like that would be the worst called spot ever. It seemed like the crowd got it as they laughed and popped when Jay countered the move. I do think Jay acknowledging the crowd in someway afterwards or utilizing some kind of trash talk or gestures would have helped nuance the story of him being a weasel who is not above tricks, shortcuts, ducking slugouts, and throwing out dangerous moves as a means to end a match quickly. He definitely needs to learn to improvise because it does seem like he really slows down when a live crowd abandons him like they did at the Dome or the Pyramid. But then again he is like 23 or 24 and this is his first real push in 4+ years of wrestling, they can't all be Ospreay level prodigies.

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Jagger27
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Jagger27 » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:48 am

I really enjoyed the White-Page match, although I've only been watching since WK11 so not a great pool to choose from I thought it was by far the best performance from Page that I have seen. I'm still not sure if he was meant to land on the floor during the suplex spot or if it was misjudged and he was meant to land on the apron.

Main event was superb and seemed to fly by for how long it actually was. I think this is the perfect example of a match to show a non-fan (with an explanation of the history) that could show them how wrestling can tell a story during a match.
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Tigerkinney
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Tigerkinney » Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:20 pm

Main event was incredible. Even with the odd blown spot here or therefore, I would still go full boat as everything else was perfect, especially the nuanced storytelling. As long as a 'botch' doesn't take me out of the match or if a match isn't littered with mistakes, I can generally forgive the wrestlers not being perfectly crisp with their delivery every time.

I think the problem with the Jay White vs Hangman Page match is that it was Heel vs Heel. Those kind of matches are fine when at least one if not both are super over but in this case I honestly think the fans weren't sure who to cheer for or boo against. Right now White's character is that he is a shit-stirrer and Hangman Page is very much Cody's lackey and seeing as Cody is the most hated man in wrestling right now, that's not really going to earn you much in the way of fan support. It was only when they started to up the danger level of the spots during the closing stretch that they got the fans into the match. Some may feel they went a little overboard during the closing stretch but upper the intensity effectively saved the match from being a dud.

White's a strange one, because before coming back with this new Switchblade character, he very much felt like a guy who would be a good in-ring worker but lack in the charisma department. Right now he's doing excellent character work as a heel but his in-ring work is now hit and miss. It's not too dissimilar to when Devitt changed from a white meat babyface to a heel gimmick.

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Rich Kraetsch
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:46 pm

What do you guys make of these two cards? I've seen some grumbling online about the lack of punch on Sakura Genesis. What say you?

Road to Sakura Genesis (3/30, 5:30 a.m. EDT)
Kazuchika Okada and YOSHI-HASHI vs. Zack Sabre Jr. and Taichi
Tetsuya Naito, EVIL, SANADA, BUSHI and Hiromu Takahashi vs. Minoru Suzuki, Lance Archer, Davey Boy Smith Jr., Yoshinobu Kanemaru and El Desperado
Hiroshi Tanahashi, KUSHIDA and Tiger Mask vs. Toru Yano, Yoh and Sho
Juice Robinson, David Finlay and Toa Henare vs. Hirooki Goto, Jay White and Tomohiro Ishii
Togi Makabe, Michael Elgin and Ryusuke Taguchi vs. Hiroyoshi Tenzan, Manabu Nakanishi and Tomoyuki Oka
Yuji Nagata vs. Shota Umino
Tetsuhiro Yagi vs. Ren Narita
Sakura Genesis (4/1, 3:00 a.m. EDT)
Kazuchika Okada vs. Zack Sabre Jr. for the IWGP Heavyweight championship
Kenny Omega and Kota Ibushi vs. Cody and Hangman Page
Will Ospreay vs. Marty Scurll for the IWGP Jr. championship
El Desperado and Yoshinobu Kanemaru vs. Roppongi 3K vs. Hiromu Takahashi and BUSHI in a triple threat match for the IWGP Jr. tag team championship
Tetsuya Naito, EVIL and SANADA vs. Minoru Suzuki, Lance Archer and Davey Boy Smith Jr.
Hiroshi Tanahashi, Juice Robinson and David Finlay vs. Hirooki Goto, Jay White and YOSHI-HASHI
Bad Luck Fale, Tama Tonga and Tanga Loa vs. Ryusuke Taguchi, Michael Elgin and Togi Makabe for the NEVER Six Man tag team championship
Tomohiro Ishii and Toru Yano vs. Taichi and Takashi Iizuka
The Young Bucks vs. Chase Owens and Yujiro Takahashi

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