NJPW (Discussion)

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Heather
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Heather » Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:49 pm

Leo C wrote:So according to the dude in the press conference, the winner can't challenge for the US title. Maybe they gave him the wrong info, but he was probably correct. If so, does that change somebody's prediction?
The U.S. Title is being defended on 3/25 at Strong Style Evolved, so I guess that's why?

If the U.S. Title is definitely out as a choice that would make me want to take Juice out as a top pick.

After the Jay White presser I couldn't help but think how funny would it be if Ishii won and felt like going after the U.S. title over the IWGP Heavyweight Title.

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MC 16
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by MC 16 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:59 am

greenmanRD wrote:I am picking Kota Ibushi. One thing that seems to be hyped up is Ibushi's inability to win the big match lately, and the boost of Kenny by his side should have an impact on him winning some big matches. Maybe that doesn't happen right away, but the way this Ibushi and Kenny storyline has gone, Ibushi should probably be the one to ascend immediately and probably be the one to take the title off of Okada. Ibushi has been the better man historically between him and Kenny, so Ibushi beating Kenny to the punch one more time should add more angles to their long history.

But, I am also an idiot and can't wait for Juice Robinson's main event match at Sakura Genesis.
That's a very interesting way New Japan can go. But I think with Ibushi not being full time with the promotion (even though he is on practically every show) will stop Kota from ever being IWGP Heavyweight Champion, as saddening as that sounds. With that being said, I can see why many people are choosing Ibushi as the winner of the New Japan Cup but I would put my money on Tanahashi winning the tournament myself. Kota Ibushi is the 2nd choice if Tanahashi has to drop out due to injury.

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K. Hare
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by K. Hare » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:30 am

There's no evidence to show that Ibushi ISN'T full time New Japan right now.

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pol
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by pol » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:25 am

The fact that he's only worked 6 dates for them this year isn't evidence of that?

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suplexberry
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by suplexberry » Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:30 am

I will say I genuinely have no clue whether Ibushi is signed or not, and what kind of a deal. I wouldn't completely exclude the possibility of a part-time ish deal for this guy. Somebody pointed out that Ibushi worked a lot of dates last year for somebody freelance. He did about as many as when he was under the DDT/NJPW combo deal. He has official merch again. He's in title matches. He's not winning them, though, but he is winning a fair bit.

NJPW has enough talent to not feature all their guys on every tour, so I am not sure if not working every tour is evidence one way or the other. Maybe he is freelance still and they just want him around for this Kenny business to wrap up neatly. Maybe they got him to agree to a set number of dates. I honestly haven't a clue.

I don't see him as IWGP champion, even if he is signed, though. At least not this year.

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K. Hare
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by K. Hare » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:39 am

The full time thing just seems like an outdated talking point. Is he on every single show? No. But he's been pretty much exclusive to NJPW for the past year or so, minus some K-Dojo dates. I think that if NJPW thinks he's the guy to put in big matches or put titles on or whatever, his schedule won't have anything to do with that. They'll just do it.

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Frank Olson
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Frank Olson » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:45 am

My predictions for the New Japan Cup...

Ishii over Elgin (even if Elgin did resign I don't imagine that they have any big plans for him)
Juice over Yujiro (because Yujiro doesn't win singles matches anymore)
Tanahashi over Taichi (because I don't see them booking Taichi vs. Archer or Taichi vs. Fale)
Archer over Fale (to give Tanahashi another Suzukigun guy to go over, although I'm not super-confident in this pick)
Ibushi over YOSHI-HASHI (because it's not like a YOSHI-HASHI upset is going to lead to anything)
Sabre over Naito (because this will give Naito another short-term feud to occupy himself until it's time to challenge Okada again)
Yano over DBS Jr (because this will infuriate Collin from the Purocast)
SANADA over Chuckie T (because New Japan rightfully likes to pair Yano and SANADA together)

Ishii over Juice (I just don't see Juice beating Ishii yet for whatever reason)
Tanahashi over Archer (another victory over a Suzukigun guy to help fast track Tanahashi's redemption)
Sabre over Ibushi (Ibushi is already involved with the whole Bullet Club breakup thing, so I don't see any need for him to go far in this tournament)
Yano over SANADA (because Yano and Ishii are eventually challenging for those tag titles)

Tanahashi over Ishii (because I think Ishii's next program is challenging for the tag titles)
Sabre over Yano (because Yano isn't going to the finals of a major tournament)

Tanahashi over Sabre (because a win in this tournament means that he can either complete his redemption against Suzuki or try to block Okada from tying his title defense record)

Now watch Taichi defeat Tanahashi and Naito defeat Sabre in the first round and completely mess up my theory.

I know that some people are down on the field for this year's tournament, but I think it's pretty strong. I could do without K.E.S. being in the tournament (or on the New Japan roster at all, to be honest), and I could take or leave Yujiro and Taichi (though I am a bit curious to see how Taichi is presented as a heavyweight) but overall I think it's a solid lineup. None of the first-round matches are really overexposed and a couple of them (Ishii/Elgin and Sabre/Naito) have a high probability of being awesome. I don't know if people remember the Naito/Sabre match from last year's G1, because it came pretty deep in that tournament and wasn't quite Match of the Year level, but it was pretty damn good and I'm excited to see those two wrestle each other again.

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Heather
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Heather » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:51 pm

I have a random Young Lions question as it relates to excursions just in case anyone can answer it... does anyone know how excursions are determined? I was curious how it's determined who goes to CMLL vs. ROH for instance. Also, is there any particular reason why some Young Lions go on an excursion (i.e. YOH and SHO, Kitamura) and others don't (i.e. David Finlay).

Showbuckle has a great YouTube video titled The Triumph of New Japan's Young Lion System which is what raised this question.

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Ckkj14
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Ckkj14 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:08 pm

Absolutely loved Okada v Ospreay. Overall was a fantastic card

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Dragonzombie
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Dragonzombie » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:25 pm

Heather wrote:I have a random Young Lions question as it relates to excursions just in case anyone can answer it... does anyone know how excursions are determined? I was curious how it's determined who goes to CMLL vs. ROH for instance. Also, is there any particular reason why some Young Lions go on an excursion (i.e. YOH and SHO, Kitamura) and others don't (i.e. David Finlay).

Showbuckle has a great YouTube video titled The Triumph of New Japan's Young Lion System which is what raised this question.
Site foremen, company officials, bookers decides that. They're mostly used for natives to gain experience or learn new moves or develop character or deeper psychology.

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gpusa
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by gpusa » Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:03 am

I was pretty underwhelmed by Okada vs Osprey today. I came in really expecting a MOTYC level match and it was just good. Maybe having such high expectations sort of dragged it down for me as it was a good match just not amazing.

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rollup
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by rollup » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:40 am

thought okada ospreay was good not great. It was hurt that ospreay never looked like winning anytime in the match and i thought the ending was convoluted. should had ended when okada countered the oscutter with his dropkick , instead of the usual 3 rainmaker combo sequences

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suplexberry
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by suplexberry » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:47 am

I thought maybe it needed to be a more compact match or tell a different kind of story. What they did was cool and impressive, I especially liked Ospreay's counters to Okada's offence and the initial chain wrestling sequences. The match quite frankly struggled to hold my attention, which could've been a confluence of many things - tiring day at work, tough workout, general mental exhaustion due to work issues, being kind of bored with Okada's reign as a whole - but still, pretty bad that it did that, considering the talent. I could see the story of this being the ultimate test of Ospreay's time in Japan but that just didn't carry over into the sort of match I think people wanted out of this one. I don't know.

I loved Suzuki vs Makabe, terrific story, engaging match, totally and rightly centered around Suzuki's magnetic persona. Great stuff.

Taichi vs Naito was a lot of fun. It's about the same as their TakaTaichi match - Taichi worked extra hard, lotta shenanigans, the end result stays the same.

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Frank Olson
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Frank Olson » Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:02 am

I thought that Okada vs. Ospreay was an interesting, very good match, but just not up to the level that you would hope for when two of the best wrestlers in the world are in the ring together. The long grappling sequence in the beginning was very interesting and unexpected, and while I don't think it really worked to either man's strengths I did appreciate the break from formula. The closing stretch of reversals was fantastic as always too. But something seemed like it was missing to put the match over the top, and I can't put my finger on what it was exactly. Maybe just that it never felt like there was any possibility that Will would win. Maybe that it ran a bit too long. I don't know. I still really liked the match and thought it was the best of the night, but I know that these two can do better.

Suzuki vs. Makabe was very good. They told a simple story that played to both men's strengths, and aside from the unnecessary chair shot sequence there were really no shenanigans, which I appreciate. Suzuki is still the New Japan wrestler of the year at this point, which is refreshing after his mostly terrible 2017.

I liked Naito vs. Taichi. It wasn't a blow away match or anything, but it accomplished the goal of making Taichi look like a credible heavyweight. He still did a fair amount of cheating, but there was a subtle shift toward him being more of an asshole brawler rather than just a rule breaker.

I enjoyed YOSHI-HASHI vs. SANADA, though I still don't think they've had a singles match together that has lived up to their awesome interactions in past tag matches. (The Dominion 2016 tag match where YOSHI-HASHI made SANADA tap out remains the highlight of their ongoing feud). They do have really good chemistry together, but they can't seem to quite put together the great singles match that I know they have in them.

The Jr Tag Title match was a lot of fun in a vacuum. The match was laid out really well, with the LIJ and Suzukigun teams constantly cutting off each others' momentum, and that ongoing story played into the brilliant and surprising finishing sequence. What I don't like though is that we seem to be back at a point where all of the teams in this division are somewhat interchangeable. Going into 2018 I really thought that Roppongi 3K were going to be established as the aces of the Jr Tag division, but it seems like the titles are just going to continue to change hands every time they are defended. I guess that's kind of necessary when there are really only a handful of teams in the division, but it feels like the lack of a hierarchy is going to continue to hold this division back even though the matches are usually great.

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K. Hare
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by K. Hare » Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:55 am

Thought today was a decent but very dry card. The only really interesting thing was Naito vs. Taichi, as it felt pretty different. The main was fine but never completely clicked.

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