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mrjoshdude
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by mrjoshdude » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:18 pm

RolandGunner wrote:
Garuda wrote:I'm stuck thinking about who is Okada going to defend against after SANADA, and what's going to happen in the cup. I'm willing to assume the defense, just as willing as I am to extend SANADA a generous 10% chance of victory. Could happen, I guess, but I don't think that's the story.

So who's Okada's 11th challenger?
Okada's next title defense will likely be at Sakura Genesis which is normally a pretty big show. Ibushi is the biggest name he hasn't defended against yet so I figure that will happen either here or at Dominion. If they decide to wait for Dominion I'd like to see Ishii win the New Japan Cup and then have some intra-CHAOS conflict creep up since Jay White is already hinting at that.

If Tana is healthy, having him come back for the record tying defense does sound awesome. Also, their first singles match in 2.5 years.
Jay influencing Ishii to go for Okada would be really cool. There's an interesting scenario where Ishii wins the NJC and initially challenges Suzuki for the IC belt only to have Jay come out and push him towards challenging Okada for the IWGP title. You could even go a step further there and have Ishii say maybe Jay's right, maybe he should go after someone in CHAOS and actually challenges Jay himself for the US belt. There are plenty of way's to go here, New Japan is super interesting right now.

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rollup
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by rollup » Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:53 pm

What should happen : a pissed off Okada grabs the okada bucks and gets rolled up when he attempts to stuff it into sanada

What will happen : Okada and Sanada do a series of reversals and Okada Rainmakers Sanada

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Frank Olson
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Frank Olson » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:58 am

This theory that RolandGunner and mrjoshdude have about Ishii potentially winning the New Japan Cup and becoming Okada's 11th challenger is really interesting, especially with the faction-destroying antics of Jay White factored in. I hope that happens, especially since the Ishii/Okada G1 match was one of my favorites in 2016. I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility either, as the last few years New Japan has used the New Japan Cup to either test people out in main event slots (Ibushi in 2015, Shibata in 2017) or officially elevate them to that level (Naito in 2016). That said, I think we need to remember that Ishii and Yano are clearly being positioned as the next challengers for EVIL and SANADA's tag titles. That match could very well happen at the anniversary show prior to the New Japan Cup, but it wouldn't shock me if that is the Tag Title match at Sakura Genesis either.

The fact that we are spending all this time thinking about Okada's future title challengers reminds me that I still don't really buy SANADA as a credible IWGP Title contender. I still wish that he had either pinned Okada or made him tap out to the Skull End in Tuesday's Tag Title match, or at some point during this Road To tour to at least set him up as potentially being on Okada's level. I like SANADA and I love Okada, but for me their matches together have always been solid but unspectacular. Strigga pointed out on the Eastern Lariat podcast after their last G1 match together that Okada and SANADA wrestle in such a similar style that their matches come off sort of flat even though they are technically impressive, and I definitely agree with him on that point. I'm personally way more excited for Ospreay vs. Hiromu and Goto vs. EVIL than I am for the IWGP Title match.

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Garuda
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Garuda » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:41 am

Frank Olson wrote:This theory that RolandGunner and mrjoshdude have about Ishii potentially winning the New Japan Cup and becoming Okada's 11th challenger is really interesting, especially with the faction-destroying antics of Jay White factored in. I hope that happens, especially since the Ishii/Okada G1 match was one of my favorites in 2016. I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility either, as the last few years New Japan has used the New Japan Cup to either test people out in main event slots (Ibushi in 2015, Shibata in 2017) or officially elevate them to that level (Naito in 2016). That said, I think we need to remember that Ishii and Yano are clearly being positioned as the next challengers for EVIL and SANADA's tag titles. That match could very well happen at the anniversary show prior to the New Japan Cup, but it wouldn't shock me if that is the Tag Title match at Sakura Genesis either.

The fact that we are spending all this time thinking about Okada's future title challengers reminds me that I still don't really buy SANADA as a credible IWGP Title contender. I still wish that he had either pinned Okada or made him tap out to the Skull End in Tuesday's Tag Title match, or at some point during this Road To tour to at least set him up as potentially being on Okada's level. I like SANADA and I love Okada, but for me their matches together have always been solid but unspectacular. Strigga pointed out on the Eastern Lariat podcast after their last G1 match together that Okada and SANADA wrestle in such a similar style that their matches come off sort of flat even though they are technically impressive, and I definitely agree with him on that point. I'm personally way more excited for Ospreay vs. Hiromu and Goto vs. EVIL than I am for the IWGP Title match.
I agree, and that's given the caveat that the match build-up has gotten me much more intrigued than I expected. Granted, in my case I've just never loved SANADA. I always like him, but his matches have always come in under my expectations, with the exception of that G1 upset with Tanahashi.

I'd love a CHAOS challenger for some White-brand shit-stirring, but I also don't think Ishii is that likely. We always inflate how likely it his for him to make big moves, when in reality they just haven't put him in big spots in the last calendar year past the tag scene. That Okada/Ishii match from the G1 is probably an all-time favorite of mine, I'd love to see a rematch, but I just don't see it as any kind of likely.

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suplexberry
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by suplexberry » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:57 am

I love the idea of Jay shit-stirring but I don't think Ishii would be the type of person you could do it with, as a character. Ishii's forty two years young, seen it all, knows who he is, what his style is. If he does win Cup and challenge, he'll do it on his own terms, not because of outside influence. I just don't see that being something he'd do. As to why he didn't challenge Okada in 2017 when he had the legitimate claim, I don't know, but I doubt it's CHAOS allegiance (I'm talking kayfabe here).

I like that this feud is bringing something new out of SANADA, the little interview thingy on World was good, they're allowing him to finally speak. But I don't have high hopes for the match or the outcome. It's been a month since WK and while I'm more okay with it now, I still don't think Okada winning was the right move creatively. Everybody is already looking ahead towards Cup because SANADA, while cool, feels very filler, and I think almost nobody is putting money on the Cup winner either, regardless of who it is.

A lot of things feel fresher than on Jan 4th, because of the Sapporo events, but the IWGP scene not so much. Hm.

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Frank Olson
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Frank Olson » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:21 pm

One thing that I don't think has gotten enough attention regarding tomorrow's show is just how strong the lineup is overall. There are only two multi-man tags and neither of them feel like they are just there to give wrestlers without programs something to do. Elgin/Makabe/KUSHIDA/Taguchi vs. Suzuki/Iizuka/Taichi/TAKA will obviously continue the whole Makabe vs. Suzuki feud (which I do find weirdly compelling, even if it seems more NEVER Title level than IC Title level, and is not likely to lead to a great match) as well as the bizarre Elgin/Iizuka mini feud and the never-ending Taguchi vs. Taichi issue. I find all of the crowd brawling that Makabe and Suzuki do a little tiresome, but I could still see that being a fun 8-man tag.

The other one is Finlay/Juice/Henare vs. White/Ishii/Yano, which should continue the awesome Finlay vs. White issue (which, apart from the Golden Lovers reunion, is the most interesting thing going on in New Japan right now in my opinion) while also showing off the excellent chemistry between Henare and Ishii and the surprisingly strong chemistry between Juice and Yano.

With the obvious exception of Wrestle Kingdom, this is the most stacked New Japan card we've seen in a while. Of all the matches on the show I am actually probably least excited for the main event just because I don't buy SANADA as a credible challenger and haven't loved his previous matches with Okada, but it's not like I expect that to be a bad match of anything. Everything on the show is compelling in some way and has the chance to deliver big.

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K. Hare
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by K. Hare » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:16 pm

I'm never predicting Ishii winning anything of note ever again after I was positive he was winning the NJ Cup last year but didn't.

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Jacob's Bawks
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Jacob's Bawks » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:03 pm

They've announced the new LA Dojo is opening in March, no specific date set.
I dunno what I'm doing but come follow me on Twitter @Jacobs_Bawks

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greenmanRD
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by greenmanRD » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:33 pm

I'm not sure how they get Okada's 11th challenger at this point. I feel like Tanahashi makes more sense to go for it at the 11th defense, since he would want to hold the record of 11th defense, not let Okada tie it. However, the timing doesn't really fit since Tanahashi should likely want blood against Suzuki given how that match transpired. I feel like if Tanahashi wins the NJ Cup, his first goal would be to face Suzuki, but maybe I'm wrong on that one.

Jay White probably makes the most interesting challenger from a booking standpoint given his position in CHAOS but I'm not sure how legitimate he is to the fans yet. It might make more sense for White to beat Okada during the G1 than to get a title shot this soon. Also, White is not going to be challenging in the New Japan Cup, so it's difficult to see how he can get the next shot.

It'll probably be one of Kenny, Naito, Ibushi or Tanahashi. At least that's my guess anyway. My gut is to lean Kota, but I have no real rhyme or reason to think that.

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Leo C
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Leo C » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:59 pm

I really doubt that Tanahashi plays a part in Okada's 11th or 12th defenses. I'm sure he'll be paired with Suzuki (and SZKG as a whole) until Dominion, at least.

I think Okada beats SANADA, and Naito stops him from breaking the record by winning the belt at Dominion. My first instinct would be to assume there's a title defense at Sakura Genesis, but now with the US title being around (assuming the Cup winner can challenge for that belt too) that makes it more likely for either that belt or the IC to be the main event there. You never know. I think it's also important to remember that Dontaku is gonna be split into two shows, so along with Hinokuni that gives us another tour with three big shows. Now, again, they could do the 11th defense at the Cup and have the other belts carry the load there as those shows aren't super big but they have put Heavyweight title matches on Dontaku for the last two years. The US show I'm sure will be main evented by Jericho vs Naito, and the Anniversary show will probably have Suzuki/Makabe on top.

I wouldn't put it past them to have Okada/Juice main event Sakura Genesis. He's been having some friction with CHAOS, and they put EVIL in that spot at KOPW (although EVIL was higher in the pecking order at that point than Juice is now). It's a long shot, though. I don't think Ishii's gonna win, although him going after either Suzuki or White should be a good main event (and if I'm considering a Juice win might as well name Ishii too). I don't think Elgin's gonna be the winner here. Ibushi could win too, I guess? Him challenging Okada is somewhat of a detour from what he is doing (albeit still a possible scenario), but he could choose White and try to win the belt back for his buddy.

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PW17
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by PW17 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:59 pm

Seems like the NJPW hatefest has resumed on Twitter. It's pretty transparent why some people are "souring" on NJPW. If LIJ cleaned house tonight. people would be raving about it. I saw nothing wrong with the last three title matches. I didn't give any of them the full five, but I did give Ospreay vs Takahashi and SANADA vs Okada 4.75. Overall, I thought it was a very decent show. People just need to accept Okada is the guy and he probably won't lose the title for a while.

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suplexberry
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by suplexberry » Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:51 pm

Boy, was I not feeling this show today. I can't even explain it anyway with a quirk of mood or real life stuff. I'm stressed out but usually that's when wrestling hits me the hardest, because I need that escapism the most. This show underdelivered big time for me.

To start with the good, I love the Despy/Kanemaru team challenging and I think the match is going to be a whole ton of fun. I thought YH and Naito had good chemistry together and while nothing incredible, it was a very solid, fun match. I feel bad for Yoshi, but then, I always do. He's always the guy who seems to want it so much, but he just very, very seldom rises to the next level to justify a proper push. I liked the BUSHI vs Gedo match, because Gedo is always fun and shenanigans and all, it amused me. Naito vs Taichi is a fine filler program, one asshole against a different asshole, but damn why does your most charismatic guy need filler program after filler program? Seems like he could do more.

I also really enjoyed the "dojo boys" vs CHAOS, where Jay beat his dojo kohai in Henare, Henare got to show off again against Ishii, Juice had some comedy stuff with Yano but also showed fire against Jay. People love to fantasybook the foreign dojo lads forming a faction together, but I like that Jay is now on the other side. Juice has said he's still got eyes on that US belt. Him vs Jay would be a fun.

Ospreay vs Hiromu was, as expected, absolutely great and bonkers match. It took a while to get going for me but when it did, it hit an awesome gear and never quit. I'm of two minds on the result - good for Will keeping the title after the quick loss to Scurll, but damn if I didn't work myself into thinking Hiromu had this one in the bag. I don't know where he goes from here.

EVIL vs Goto just did not click. I wanted to love it, and I think once they entered the brutal closing stretch it was good, but as a whole, I really did expect so much more.

SANADA vs Okada was a good match, but not the caliber it should have been, as discussed on the flagship. Maybe it was for some people, just not for me. The problem with this match for me was twofold: the build showed new sides of SANADA but they weren't incredibly compelling. It's like, hey we knew he was this good-looking cool dude who did cool things in the ring, just didn't talk much. Now he talked, but not much. He didn't leave an impact with what he said, or what he did. And in the match itself, he did show some new energy, a little bit of extra, but just not that next level.

I don't think SANADA has the intangibles. He's good-looking, he does cool stuff, he wrestles well but not amazingly. But charisma, personality, character, edge, fire, spirit, whatever you wanna call it, that energy that compels people to not just like a guy but absolutely adore him, he lacks those. If he didn't lack them, this would be the match to show it. He's been better than this match, but this was the match where he needed to be even better than the best he's been so far. And that's why I'm so disappointed.

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rollup
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by rollup » Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:54 pm

I think the Main Event was very good , though it probably cemented Sanada as more of a challenger of the month / short term IC champ kinda of role (like Fale). He is a very smooth and solid wrestler , but only seems to be able to connect with the crowd when he does his rapid-fire comebacks or his instagram photos lol.

As for Hiromu , if they were doing heavy vs Jr at the next show , then it was the right decision for him not to win tonight as he should be taking a L to Okada in his next match if he had won the jr title.

it has to be said the crowd was still very happy and reactive to okada's win , so while people on twitter (dun talk to me about business and spreadsheets!) might say NJ is now stale , the japan crowd is still liking it atm .. shoulder shrug i guess

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Dragonzombie
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Dragonzombie » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:09 pm

Sanada was never gonna win.

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Empiresk
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Empiresk » Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:48 pm

I absolutely loved the main event. Best match I have ever seen Sanada have. Loved the comparisons between Sanada and Naito both having Okada beat but went for a flashy move only to let Okada slip back into the match. Loved the crowd slowly getting behind Sanada and then exploding when Sanada started hitting his signature leapfrogs and topes.

I really enjoyed Ospreay vs Hiromu but felt it was abit flat as the crowd had no investment in Ospreay and as a result never got near the standards of Hiromu vs KUSHIDA or even the KUSHIDA vs Ospreay matches from last year.

Really didn't feel Goto vs EVIL. For whatever reason, I didn't get into it and is arguably my mots disappointing match of the year so far.

2015 Ospreay vs Okada was great in Rev Pro so one could only imagine how good 2018 Ospreay vs Okada will be. That could be spectacular.

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