NJPW (Discussion)

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saviorofstrongstyle
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by saviorofstrongstyle » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:43 pm

I'm pretty sure Suzuki is facing Goto at Wrestle Kingdom and Goto will probably win the NEVER back then.
They had Goto and Yano against Suzuki and all this tour leading up to Power Struggle.
Goto did the run in during the Yano Suzuki match at Power Struggle.
Suzuki stormed off shouting at Goto after the match.
Yoshihashi Goto are in the same WTL block as Suzuki and Iizuka.

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IIDXias
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by IIDXias » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:06 pm

supersonic wrote:
armsofsleep wrote:When I watch a movie I don't think "well this is good but how much money did it make?" I watch for MY enjoyment. I know what ramifications it has for their business. I don't watch wrestling with the goal of expanding a global brand. I watch to enjoy it. Coming in and saying fans "don't understand" what they should or shouldn't enjoy because of abstract business reasons is fucking stupid, full stop.
This isn’t a dime-a-dozen message board with unemployed teenagers though. It’s supposed to be one that’s incredibly measured and with a finger on the pulse.
this is crazy to me. what is so wrong about people saying "i personally don't care about/am not excited for omega/jericho, but i get why it was a good move for NJPW from a business standpoint"? that's the take i've seen over and over again, on this board and elsewhere, and i really don't see how it's wrong. something can be good for business and not personally be interesting to the hardest of the hardcore fans, which is what we all are.

Bloodbuzz Bunk
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Bloodbuzz Bunk » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:08 pm

I sorta wonder if Juice Robinson might be Suzuki's challenger? I don't they would put Goto or Yoshi-Hashi out there with Suzuki again.

Also thanks to NJPW for putting KES, GoD, and War Machine into the same block together because lord knows we all have been clamoring to see what those teams look like in the ring together.

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GuestTimekeeper
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by GuestTimekeeper » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:32 pm

Jericho is a Top 3 of all time for me, so this has me stoked. I don't care if he's washed up, it's Chris Jericho vs Kenny Omega!

Real question, does Jericho/Omega go on before or after Tanahashi/White?

Speaking of Jay White, he's going to need some time to adapt to his gimmick. He looks like a teenager who spends a lot of time in the counselors office. Unlike Evil though, White is getting thrown in the deep end. He's got two months to stick this Switchblade thing.

Tana/Ibushi is probably making my Top 5 this year. Loved it. Incredible match. The bit where Ibushi grabbed red shoes hand while stomping Tana is a top moment of the year for me.

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IIDXias
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by IIDXias » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:12 pm

the switchblade stuff is whatever, people are worrying about this way too much. here's what matters to the modern new japan fanbase:

1) are you cute (he is definitely cute)

and

2) can you have good matches (he can do this)

the gimmick stuff is whatever, it will work itself out. ultimately maybe he just ends up toning parts of it down; it wouldn't surprise me if by this time next year the switchblade thing is really just a nickname more than a full-on gimmick.

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rollup
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by rollup » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:30 am

IIDXias wrote:the switchblade stuff is whatever, people are worrying about this way too much. here's what matters to the modern new japan fanbase:

1) are you cute (he is definitely cute)

and

2) can you have good matches (he can do this)

the gimmick stuff is whatever, it will work itself out. ultimately maybe he just ends up toning parts of it down; it wouldn't surprise me if by this time next year the switchblade thing is really just a nickname more than a full-on gimmick.
i am pretty sure there will be shots of the female crowd with switchblade signs soon

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BackLash
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by BackLash » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:02 am

I'm kinda bummed they took those who have matches out of the WTL but I'm still excited about this tournament. Time to take a look at the teams.

A Block
Bad Luck Fale and Chase Owens - While I'm happy Chase is in the tournament, I always felt he shined the best with Kenny as his partner. It's obvious they paired the spared and they'll be the job team of the A Block with Chase eating most of the pins.
Evil and Sanada - Eh, they'll be brutal and awesome, but right now I'm just like "Oh cool its LiJ, that's fine I guess".
Hangman Page and Yujiro Takahashi - I'm hoping and praying these two have better chemistry than last year, but I doubt it.
Hirooki Goto and Yoshi-Hashi - Should be a fun team, I don't see them winning it all because Yoshi-Hashi has yet to be really push like a big deal at Wrestle Kingdom. Still, I'm high on these two being underrated but entertaining throughout.
Hiroyoshi Tenzan and Satoshi Kojima - TenCozy is freaking awesome, I hope they win, but having them there is enough for me.
Juice Robinson and Sami Callihan - Only saw a few of Callihan's matches as Soloman Crowe, but I like Juice a lot Sami being there to bring in new blood in New Japan should be interesting.
Manabu Nakanishi and Yuji Nagata - My respect for both men aside, I'm pretty indifferent. I know Nakanishi's trademark spots and Nagata, in general, will pop me but I can't see them being all that competitive in the A Block.
Minoru Suzuki and Takashi Iizuka - These guys should be fun, their crazy heel tactics and sheer brutality will make a great contrast to the faces and bring out the aggression in the heels. In lieu of missing New Japan's top talent, I'm game for some anarchy.

B Block
Beretta and Chuckie T. - The Best Freinds together again...for the first time...in New Japan. I'm new to Chuck Taylor's work, but I like what I've seen in RoH, This the tram I'm most hype about.
Davey Boy Smith, Jr. and Lance Archer - Welcome back KES, these guys should really be fun to watch as always. One of three hoss teams that has me excited for 11/18.
David Finlay and Katsuya Kitamura - What an odd pairing, still, I'm ok with it, because Finlay gets to so something halfway important for once and Kitamura with be so over wrecking fools.
Hanson and Raymond Rowe - War Machine is the second of three hoss teams I'm excited for. Those dudes were the MVP of the entire WTL last year even pulling a great match out of Nakanishi and Henare, it was fantastic. Hopefully, they will still be presented as dominant this time around.
Henare and Togi Makabe - A team up that comes outta nowhere but makes sense. I don't see a 3-peat for Makabe, but if we're lucky, we'll see this tournament bring out the best of him and Heare.
Jeff Cobb and Michael Elgin - The final hoss team, looks to be a fun pairing, I'm cautiously excited to see how Cobb and Elgin fare given the last minute substitution.
Tama Tonga and Tanga Loa - Shod be goo.
Tomohiro Ishii and Toru Yano - After last year, I want Yano, far away for this tournament as possible.

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Frank Olson
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Frank Olson » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:11 am

I'm sure that I'll fall into my usual World Tag League viewing pattern of watching the first match of each team and then losing interest until the finals, but this year's tournament does actually look pretty interesting on paper. None of the teams look like obvious winners to me. One prediction I do have is that War Machine and G.O.D. will both defeat K.E.S. during league competition, and then join the champions and whoever wins the tournament in a 4-way Tag Match on January 4th. That obviously isn't an exciting possibility, but it really seems like something that is going to happen.

The blocks are really lopsided. The only team I'm really interested in in the A Block are Juice and Callihan, especially if the rumors of them being underlings of Jay White turn out to be true. I'm not so sure about Juice turning heel - he seems like one of those guys who should be an underdog babyface for his entire career - but it could be a cool story if adopting a new attitude leads to him finally winning the Tag Team Titles after the various singles titles have eluded him all year. (I would like if Sami would leave his spit slaps and taking laps around the entire ring spots out of New Japan though). SANADA/EVIL, Tenkoji, and Goto/YOSHI-HASHI are all good if uninteresting teams, but the other half of the block looks pretty rough.

On the other hand I'm into all of the teams on the B Block, with the exception of Ishii and Yano (Ishii is one of my very favorites and I love Yano, but I've never enjoyed them as a team). Cobb and Elgin should be an incredible team, and I'm really looking forward to seeing them against War Machine. I'm excited for Henare to be back. To be honest so many Young Lions have emerged since Henare went down with injury that I sort of forgot about his existence, but there was a brief window where he was my favorite YL and I think he will pair really well with Makabe. The Best Friends should make for incredible bump machines in a hoss-filled block.

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suplexberry
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by suplexberry » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:48 am

Somebody please watch every match on WTL and give a shout here if anything is good or interesting. I normally tune out, I definitely tuned out last year and as interesting as the teams are, I'm not really hyped for anybody except Henare's return (dampened by him teaming with Makabe, but at least he gets to put his working shoes on straight away), EVIL/SANADA and Elgin/Cobb.

I think this WK card is looking bold, but smartly so, mostly due to White's prominent debut spot. I think he will be fine, and if he's got jitters, he's in there with Tanahashi, a guy who does not slack off in big spots, especially if the big spot is the Tokyo Dome.

The way they're building the next generation of talent is interesting. This is the first batch of young lions I've personally watched mature from opening matches to prominent card positions and it's just really exciting (I started in 2014). They're putting a lot of stock on their young guys, and it's great, because this talent absolutely deserves it. The Jr Tag match is actually one of my most anticipated on the WK card, and White's debut will be really fascinating to see.

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armsofsleep
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by armsofsleep » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:35 pm

The problem with the WTL lineup is how who exactly is going to win. The matches I'm sure will be okay (I like them keeping out top guys), but check this out.

Fale/Owens and Page/Takahashi won't win, since they aren't even the most important BC team in the tournament.

EVIL and SANADA won't win because they are probably defending the trios belts at the dome.

Goto/YH and Ishii/Yano won't win since they are clearly both there to be novelty Chaos with a pintaker teams (maybe if Ishii/Goto were a team I'd believe in them).

Minoru Suzuki will be doing something at the dome, and Nakanishi/Nagata clearly is the grumpy old man team there to job and beat young boys.

KES are champs and probably won't win. Kitamura and Henare are gonna be taking lots of falls, so no wins there.

Best Friends, Sami/Juice, and Cobb/Elgin are also unlikely because they're outsiders.

So that leaves GOD, War Machine, and TenKoji. Not exactly any inspiring options there. I'd almost hope for a three or fourway at this point just so I don't have to see a matchup we've seen before.

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Leo C
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Leo C » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:38 pm

This is definitely a detour from what is mostly being discussed and it's a recurring issue with NJPW but this Jericho thing really got me thinking about it again.

How is it possible that a company like NJPW is going through all the trouble they are to expand into the US still use automatic Google translation for NJPW World? Granted, it's not like you're unable to find the stuff you want (especially if you only watch the big shows), but still. It's just wrong to have "has released STRUGGLE POWER" as the first thing that pops up in your homepage. Plus, many of the post-match promos and special interviews that they do don't have English subtitles. Those things should be really, really easy to solve. What's the issue here, a company as big as Bushiroad can't find a Japanese web design guy who speaks perfect English? Not a single one? Come on. Stardom does this on their streaming site, don't they? Am I blowing this out of proportion?

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armsofsleep
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by armsofsleep » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:45 pm

Leo C wrote:This is definitely a detour from what is mostly being discussed and it's a recurring issue with NJPW but this Jericho thing really got me thinking about it again.

How is it possible that a company like NJPW is going through all the trouble they are to expand into the US still use automatic Google translation for NJPW World? Granted, it's not like you're unable to find the stuff you want (especially if you only watch the big shows), but still. It's just wrong to have "has released STRUGGLE POWER" as the first thing that pops up in your homepage. Plus, many of the post-match promos and special interviews that they do don't have English subtitles. Those things should be really, really easy to solve. What's the issue here, a company as big as Bushiroad can't find a Japanese web design guy who speaks perfect English? Not a single one? Come on. Stardom does this on their streaming site, don't they? Am I blowing this out of proportion?
No you are 100% correct. Even small things like not providing a seating chart when buying Wrestle Kingdom tickets are just another barrier for entry for foreign fans.

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Joe Lanza
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Joe Lanza » Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:28 pm

Grammarian wrote:It just hit me that on a show where David Finlay was on the preshow wrestling a Young Lion, Jay White closed the show with a major angle attacking and challenging Tanahashi. Remember back to those two working with each other constantly when they were starting out as Young Lions. Wow, were they ever in polar opposite positions on the last show.
People are being very hypercritical of White's gimmick.

I think John said something similar earlier in the thread, but the bottom line is if he has killer matches (and I think he will) and beats the right people he will get over, regardless of what anyone thinks of his leather jacket.

He was always getting rocket packed, I don't know why some people seem surprised, and he has the best opponent and the best show to break through on. Gedo's track record is close to flawless in getting new stars over, even if White disappoints here, I wouldn't write him off (see: Okada vs YOSHI-HASHI five years ago in the same building).

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armsofsleep
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by armsofsleep » Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:55 pm

Yeah I don't get the look criticism as much either. It's a little lame but I think more because he just looks like another guy. There are way too many black leather guys in NJPW right now. He should aim to be his own thing, not discount Omega.

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Grammarian
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Grammarian » Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:14 pm

Joe Lanza wrote:
Grammarian wrote:It just hit me that on a show where David Finlay was on the preshow wrestling a Young Lion, Jay White closed the show with a major angle attacking and challenging Tanahashi. Remember back to those two working with each other constantly when they were starting out as Young Lions. Wow, were they ever in polar opposite positions on the last show.
People are being very hypercritical of White's gimmick.

I think John said something similar earlier in the thread, but the bottom line is if he has killer matches (and I think he will) and beats the right people he will get over, regardless of what anyone thinks of his leather jacket.

He was always getting rocket packed, I don't know why some people seem surprised, and he has the best opponent and the best show to break through on. Gedo's track record is close to flawless in getting new stars over, even if White disappoints here, I wouldn't write him off (see: Okada vs YOSHI-HASHI five years ago in the same building).
I don't have a problem with the character/look, nor with the megapush. I was just noting the stark differences in where Jay and Finlay are now. It didn't hit me until hours after the show.
twitter me @ItsGrammarian

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