NJPW (Discussion)

Talk Puro, Lucha, Europe and "I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN AUSTRALIA/PACIFIC ISLANDS/CARIBBEAN/AFRICA"
User avatar
Garuda
Posts: 776
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:15 pm
Location: Chicago, IL
Contact:

Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Garuda » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:56 pm

Maybe I'm stuck on an idea but the title bloat really feels present these days. The US Title is just one too many singles titles, and I think it'd help if they clearly established a pecking order. It used to be 1-2-3, IWGP HW, IC, and NEVER. Now it feels like there's just too many things to juggle well and they're starting to drop the balls.

User avatar
Leo C
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:09 pm
Location: São Paulo, Brazil
Contact:

Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Leo C » Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:38 am

Garuda wrote:Maybe I'm stuck on an idea but the title bloat really feels present these days. The US Title is just one too many singles titles, and I think it'd help if they clearly established a pecking order. It used to be 1-2-3, IWGP HW, IC, and NEVER. Now it feels like there's just too many things to juggle well and they're starting to drop the balls.
I totally agree. When they announced the US title, I remember specifically saying that it was fine as a title exclusive to the US territory, but as another singles title in NJPW... just too much. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on the next few months as that may just be how the title ends up; maybe when the territory is totally established in 2018 we'll never see it defended in Japan again and they're just doing these Omega defenses in the mean time for people not to forget about the belt. As to why they would have the tournament to crown a champion before having the territory, that can be explained by NJPW wanting to make a splash on their first US shows.

Granted, there's also a good chance the belt just sticks around. In that case this is pretty lame and does a disservice to the NEVER belt especially after it took so long for Ishii and Shibata to build it up.

Bloodbuzz Bunk
Posts: 209
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:50 pm

Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Bloodbuzz Bunk » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:37 am

I think it's to early to judge the title just yet. But even if they never really get to a full territory expansion( that seems like a huge overreach to me) but end up having 3 to 4 big PPV type events in America each year than the title more than justifies itself.

Considering major singles titles get 6-8 defenses a year usually than if the US belt main events a couple American shows( co mains with IC or Heavyweight belts once a year over in America too), gets defend twice on War Of The Worlds type ROH production, and gets defended at WK,Dominion, and another show in Japan than the belt does its job. It gives Gedo a chance to use his big draws on US, IC, and Heavyweight titles and spread those defenses out more evenly throughout the year. It also takes the pressure off the Never belt to be held by guy who can be counted on the help draw. The Never Belt can now truly be used as a nidcard title and feature younger talent in semi main event roles.

User avatar
frankpellow
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:23 am

Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by frankpellow » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:46 am

does the honour of winning the Young Lions' Cup mean a lot?
I just wonder if it will be used to put a spotlight on the trainee they think most highly of or if they will book the tournament in a way to make it self contained and most dramatic.

User avatar
Rich Kraetsch
Site Admin
Posts: 2174
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:12 pm
Location: Wheaton, IL
Contact:

Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:29 pm

frankpellow wrote:does the honour of winning the Young Lions' Cup mean a lot?
I just wonder if it will be used to put a spotlight on the trainee they think most highly of or if they will book the tournament in a way to make it self contained and most dramatic.
Past winners are Shunji Kosugi, Keiichi Yamada (Liger), Masahiro Chono, Hiroyoshi Yamamoto (Tenzan), Satoshi Kojima, Manabu Nakanishi, Tokimitsu Ishizawa (Kendo Kashin), Kenzo Suzuki, Ryusuke Taguchi and Hirooki Goto.

Obviously it's been quite a few years since they did it so I'm not sure the current regime still holds it in as high of regard as others did but that's a pretty awesome list of guys. A junior legend in Liger, a solid junior hand in Taguchi, Goto, past champs like Nakanishi/Kojima and some of NJPW's legacy guys like Chono, Tenzan

User avatar
frankpellow
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:23 am

Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by frankpellow » Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:41 pm

Rich Kraetsch wrote:
frankpellow wrote:does the honour of winning the Young Lions' Cup mean a lot?
I just wonder if it will be used to put a spotlight on the trainee they think most highly of or if they will book the tournament in a way to make it self contained and most dramatic.
Past winners are Shunji Kosugi, Keiichi Yamada (Liger), Masahiro Chono, Hiroyoshi Yamamoto (Tenzan), Satoshi Kojima, Manabu Nakanishi, Tokimitsu Ishizawa (Kendo Kashin), Kenzo Suzuki, Ryusuke Taguchi and Hirooki Goto.

Obviously it's been quite a few years since they did it so I'm not sure the current regime still holds it in as high of regard as others did but that's a pretty awesome list of guys. A junior legend in Liger, a solid junior hand in Taguchi, Goto, past champs like Nakanishi/Kojima and some of NJPW's legacy guys like Chono, Tenzan
Thanks for this knowledge. So the result of the tournament is likely to be very telling as to who New Japan really rate and think is going to be a top guy after they've spent their year or so working opening tags and going on excursion.
Oka or Kitamura? I would think Oka offers more in the future but Kitamura seems to be more comfortable and is developing a good rapport with the crowd.

User avatar
Danwaka
Posts: 843
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 8:15 pm
Location: Amman, Jordan

Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Danwaka » Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:57 pm

I think Kitamura gets it because he's not gonna be around as long, barring tragedy. Oka is probably the youngest heavyweight native in the company after EVIL and Okada.

As a sidenote, who wants Kitamura and Yujiro as a tag team?

User avatar
Garuda
Posts: 776
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:15 pm
Location: Chicago, IL
Contact:

Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Garuda » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:55 pm

It can't really be anyone but Oka, Kitamura, and Kawato. Kawato would be a complete shock, and to put him over the two others would be an incredible vote of confidence- which is why I don't think they'll do it.

A Young Lion's Cup offers the opportunity to have one of the older two blue-chippers to pass excursion and move directly to the lower-card. Kitamura especially doesn't have time to fuck around in ROH for three years. And I wouldn't be surprised if ultimately the move is for both Kitamura and Oka to graduate to full wrestlers, no matter which one wins.

User avatar
elloziom
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:54 pm

Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by elloziom » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:07 am

Is it already known who is going to be Rocky's partner? And if not it's gotta be Chuck right?

User avatar
suplexberry
Posts: 738
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:34 pm

Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by suplexberry » Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:48 am

Everything Rocky said indicated he's moving into a "coach" role, so the assumption is Roppongi 3k is a 3-person team including him. I assume he'll still do matches but he will primarily manage these two guys.

Everybody's best guess is Sho & Yohei coming back from excursion.

If Kawato doesn't win the YLC, I'll probably not comment on the result at all because of my extreme salt level. But honestly the round robin format lends itself to plenty of draws and "Y taking X to their limit but not winning" types of outcomes so I wouldn't be surprised if Kawato ends up in the final because of that. In a way he doesn't need the big win, but still, I'd really like to see it.

User avatar
Leo C
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:09 pm
Location: São Paulo, Brazil
Contact:

Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Leo C » Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:12 am

So, we had this discussion a while ago but now that Destruction has passed and the KoPW card is out I guess things are different enough to discuss again.

So how is the top of the WK (specifically the IC and NEVER title matches) going to shape out? I think most of us had Minoru challenging Tanahashi but it doesn't seem like Suzuki is gonna drop the belt before the Dome. As far as Suzuki goes, I would agree with the suggestion of Ishii taking the belt from him at WK after Minoru beats Yano at Power Struggle (or whenever).

I'm really not sure about Tanahashi though. Zack, Ibushi and Naito are the ones that beat him in the G1 but obviously none are challenging him at the Dome. Granted his match is probably going to be 3rd from the top instead of the semi-main so that opens up their options a little, but it's still not very clear to me. Perhaps they are going to have Elgin turn on him? I've seen that one thrown around although it doesn't really feel like something NJPW would do. Who else is in that position that is not doing something else on this show? I would guess Goto, but he doesn't have a lot of momentum and I think he and tacos are going to challenge for the tag titles on January 4th. Unless they know for sure that Shibata will be able to wrestle then, who is left? Don't tell me it's gonna be Cody... :?

Bloodbuzz Bunk
Posts: 209
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:50 pm

Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Bloodbuzz Bunk » Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:19 pm

Leo C wrote:So, we had this discussion a while ago but now that Destruction has passed and the KoPW card is out I guess things are different enough to discuss again.

So how is the top of the WK (specifically the IC and NEVER title matches) going to shape out? I think most of us had Minoru challenging Tanahashi but it doesn't seem like Suzuki is gonna drop the belt before the Dome. As far as Suzuki goes, I would agree with the suggestion of Ishii taking the belt from him at WK after Minoru beats Yano at Power Struggle (or whenever).

I'm really not sure about Tanahashi though. Zack, Ibushi and Naito are the ones that beat him in the G1 but obviously none are challenging him at the Dome. Granted his match is probably going to be 3rd from the top instead of the semi-main so that opens up their options a little, but it's still not very clear to me. Perhaps they are going to have Elgin turn on him? I've seen that one thrown around although it doesn't really feel like something NJPW would do. Who else is in that position that is not doing something else on this show? I would guess Goto, but he doesn't have a lot of momentum and I think he and tacos are going to challenge for the tag titles on January 4th. Unless they know for sure that Shibata will be able to wrestle then, who is left? Don't tell me it's gonna be Cody... :?
To me the obvious elephant in the room is the health and status of Katsuyori Shibata. For a guy who was reportedly near paralysis, to see him walk to the ring and take a back bump says a lot to me about his desire to come back and his ability to perform. If NJPW worked us into thinking a 6 month recovery was career threatening I'm fine with it. So I really think Shibata calls out Tanahashi after Power Struggle.

I cannot foresee this Never title match. The only two reasonable options I can come to would Ishii v Suzuki or Evil v Suzuki( Evil did beat him in the G1). I also can't dismiss the switchblade vignettes either. If those promo videos are promoting a Heavyweight( be it Sami Callihan or Jay White) in a similar manner to the way Hiromu was introduced last year than my money would be on that person challenging for Never title.

User avatar
armsofsleep
Posts: 369
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:48 pm

Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by armsofsleep » Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:32 pm

I don't think it will happen, but if Shibata interrupts a Tanahashi promo, I will cry.

User avatar
Leo C
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:09 pm
Location: São Paulo, Brazil
Contact:

Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Leo C » Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:48 pm

armsofsleep wrote:I don't think it will happen, but if Shibata interrupts a Tanahashi promo, I will cry.
You won't be alone.
Bloodbuzz Bunk wrote:
Leo C wrote:So, we had this discussion a while ago but now that Destruction has passed and the KoPW card is out I guess things are different enough to discuss again.

So how is the top of the WK (specifically the IC and NEVER title matches) going to shape out? I think most of us had Minoru challenging Tanahashi but it doesn't seem like Suzuki is gonna drop the belt before the Dome. As far as Suzuki goes, I would agree with the suggestion of Ishii taking the belt from him at WK after Minoru beats Yano at Power Struggle (or whenever).

I'm really not sure about Tanahashi though. Zack, Ibushi and Naito are the ones that beat him in the G1 but obviously none are challenging him at the Dome. Granted his match is probably going to be 3rd from the top instead of the semi-main so that opens up their options a little, but it's still not very clear to me. Perhaps they are going to have Elgin turn on him? I've seen that one thrown around although it doesn't really feel like something NJPW would do. Who else is in that position that is not doing something else on this show? I would guess Goto, but he doesn't have a lot of momentum and I think he and tacos are going to challenge for the tag titles on January 4th. Unless they know for sure that Shibata will be able to wrestle then, who is left? Don't tell me it's gonna be Cody... :?
To me the obvious elephant in the room is the health and status of Katsuyori Shibata. For a guy who was reportedly near paralysis, to see him walk to the ring and take a back bump says a lot to me about his desire to come back and his ability to perform. If NJPW worked us into thinking a 6 month recovery was career threatening I'm fine with it. So I really think Shibata calls out Tanahashi after Power Struggle.

I cannot foresee this Never title match. The only two reasonable options I can come to would Ishii v Suzuki or Evil v Suzuki( Evil did beat him in the G1). I also can't dismiss the switchblade vignettes either. If those promo videos are promoting a Heavyweight( be it Sami Callihan or Jay White) in a similar manner to the way Hiromu was introduced last year than my money would be on that person challenging for Never title.
Yeah, I guess EVIL or SANADA could be involved in either of these matches too (although for the IC it feels like somewhat of a long shot to me at this point, especially SANADA). Switchblade guy didn't even pop into my mind. Definitely a possibility.

User avatar
SgtBilko84
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:19 pm

Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by SgtBilko84 » Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:25 pm

Kinda feel like Tana putting over EVIL at WK makes sense. EVIL will need a slight boost gong into 2018 after he'll have lost to Okada. Tana at the stage were he doesn't have to win matches anymore to be over as fuck.

Okada vs Naito
Omega vs Ibushi
Tana vs EVIL
Suzuki vs Ishii
3 Way for the JNR

Cluster fuck matches for the tag titles just like every fucking time.

I do think that there is a chance they keep the IC and US belt in separate matches. But Tana or Ibushi are the only Omega opponents possible for the semi main imo. Maybe they could do some hot shotting and get the US belt off Kenny and onto EVIL/Tana. Not sure Kenny should be losing to someone like Yoshi Hashi right now in a title match though.

In summary. Who knows. But please Gedo. Kenny vs Ibushi!

Post Reply