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Rainmaker_F7
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Rainmaker_F7 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:17 pm

elloziom wrote:Interesting thing about this year's New Japan Cup is that this year's New Japan Cup tour is being run in some really big arenas with not so great cards. I mean Niigata, Tokorozawa and Aichi are run in G1 Climax venues. I mean they're doing Tanahashi vs Evil and Elgin vs Fale for a venue that is reported to hold like 5-6k people? I would personally switch venues for night 1 and night 2, but maybe NJPW believes more in Honma, Elgin, Tana and Yano drawing people (especially Tana) than Omega, Suzuki, Shibata, Ishii in an actual competitive match-ups. When it comes to results I would personally have Kenny winning with Elgin in the finals and Shibata either losing to Kenny or Sanada in semis. If he would lose to Sanada, he could win with him at Sumo Hall or Fukuoka, so you could set him up for Osaka with Naito. Kenny wouldn't cash in until Osaka, because Okada loses/draws to Tiger Mask W, who unmasks as Ibushi so we can have Kota vs Okada for Sumo Hall. In my opinion the big match after you do the Okada vs Omega in Osaka is Omega vs Naito, because Naito is the guy in Japan and Omega seems like the guy for other areas they would like to start in doing more shows.
Well I mean they did draw more for a G1 show in Aichi in 2015 with Tana vs Yano as the main event (and really nothing interesting underneath) than they did last year, with Omega vs Elgin and Shibata vs Naito last year, and both shows were on weekend iirc. So..I don't know, maybe they do feel Tanahashi, Honma, Elgin and let's say Yano are bigger draws than Omega or Shibata in those areas.

And here's the thing. If they are running venues that big, I wouldn't really expect many upsets in the 1st round. I mean, there is really no way Tana is losing to EVIL, right? He is pretty much the only big draw in his part of the bracket. Normally EVIL winning this match would be actually very likely with the way Gedo books tournaments, but I don't see this here. Same could be said about Shibata and Omega, altough them losing is way more possible, since like you said the 2nd part of the bracket doesn't headline venues as big.

Alright, let's see who can win this thing

Tanahashi - absolutely, NJ Red Army are still feuding with LIJ, and the rematch between Tana and Naito with some good support underneath could easily sell out Sumo Hall, so why not do this? Tana is at least making it to the semi-final.

EVIL - As I explained earlier, I don't see him beating Tanahashi. If he had a different opponent in the 1st round, I could see him making it to the final four, but not this time I guess.

Roa - he can beat Honma, but quarter-final is his ceiling.

Honma - he can and he probably will beat Roa, but then again, his next opponent will probably be Tanahashi, so yeah, he will not do well there.

Elgin - he just lost the IC title match, and let's be honest here, even though I love Big Mike, there is no way they will headline a Sumo Hall show with him in the main event. He could easily make it to the final four and maybe even to the final, but he is not winning.

Fale - Elgin needs a strong win after New Beginning, and I believe that's why Passable Match Fale is here.

Yano - you never know with him, but no, he isn't making it to the final four this time. Quarter-final is his ceiling.

Tama Tonga - I think he can beat Yano to set up a future title match between CHAOS and G.O.D. Then his opponent most likely will be Elgin, and tbh I don't see them doing Tana/Elgin in the NJ Cup, so he may even score an upset here. Then he 'd have Tana in the semis so that's his ceiling.

YOSHI-HASHI - Even if he beats SANADA, his next opponent is most likely Omega, so quarter-final is his ceiling.

SANADA - If he wins, I could also see Ishii scoring an upset win over Kenny, and if that'd be the case, SANADA could even make it to the final. That's not very likely, but he can win some matches in the tournament, the key will be whether Kenny beats Ishii or not.

Ishii - if he beats Omega, which I am going to talk about in a moment, he could even make it to the finals, he's not winning though.

Omega - Here's a thing. It would make perfect sense for Kenny to win now, he is red hot, he is so over with the crowd, everyone is talking about him etc. But I still think he will win the title at Dominion, not at the April show. So I think there is a high possibility that Ishii will beat him on the 12th, and then Kenny will get his win back at Sakura Genesis or Dontaku, and then he challenges Okada for the title match at Dominion. That's just how I see it though, but Omega is obviously one of the favorites here, wouldn't be surprised at all if he won.

Yujiro - he is going to have a ** 1/4 match with Juice, he will eat a Pulp Friction and that will be it for the Tokyo Pimp. The easiest outcome to predict of the all 1st round matches.

Juice - he will obviously beat Takahashi, but then his opponent is either Suzuki or Shibata, and he is not winning that.

Suzuki - he just lost the title match with Okada and they are definitely not going to do this again, and with how NJPW does things I also doubt he will challenge Naito. He may very well even go to the finals, but he is not winning.

Shibata - we all know his huge push is coming, he is going to go for one of two main titles sooner or later, the question is rather: is it the time? NJPW is very slowly moving him up the card, he will probably headline the 3/12 show with MiSu. Suzuki has come to the company..and lost to Okada in his first match back. It wouldn't make much sense for him to lose here as well, would it? I think Minoru will beat Shibata, there is a lot of potential in this little feud here, so why the hell not. Shibata can beat Suzuki down the line and get his win back later this year, in the meantime he can also fucking kill Cody Rhodes so I don't ever have to watch him, and then he will either win the G1 or just have a big title match regardless. He is one of 3 favorites for me, but I predict him losing to MiSu in the 1st round.

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Jacob's Bawks
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Jacob's Bawks » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:57 pm

I'm pretty much the exact opposite on EVIL/Tanahashi. Tanahashi's objective is beating Naito and getting the IC title, so I'm thinking he loses to EVIL here and gets the win back around Hinokuni/Dontaku and rides that momentum into an IC title match at Dominion, which is sure to sell out this time. It's pretty much what they did with him during the Omega feud last year; he feuded with an underling for a few months and got a rematch for the title. This will highly benefit EVIL as well.
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Tigerkinney
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Tigerkinney » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:36 pm

Been holed up with man-flu the past few days and have only just caught up on the ROH shows, so have only just found out now that the New Japan Cup brackets are out. Was hoping Yujiro wasn't going to make it in, but I guess they wanted someone who wouldn't be hurt at all losing to Juice Robinson- not that I'm knocking Juice but he's not at the point yet where he can go over more 'protected' names.

As for the ROH shows, thought Night 1 was OK and that Night 2 was good. War Machine for me were the MVP's of the two nights combined and the 8 man main event on Night 2, was exactly what I wanted it to be.

Hated Punisher Martinez at first but he semi won me over by the end of the Goto match- Think the turning point came when he did the crazy dive over the turnbuckle. He showed enough raw potential to me by the end, but the gimmick and mannerism's are embarrassingly dated- like something out of 80's/early 90's WWF.

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Frank Olson
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Frank Olson » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:45 am

This might be weird, but I'm actually really interested to see how Tanga Roa does in his first round match against Tomoaki Honma. I think everybody agrees that G.O.D. has really improved dramatically over the last 3 or 4 months, but I attribute a lot of that to Tama Tonga stepping up and really directing traffic in their matches. So I'm interested to see how how Roa does without his brother helping him out. I never thought I'd be interested in a Tanga Roa singles match, but there you have it.

I think the result of the Shibata/Suzuki match will really clarify where Suzuki sits on the New Japan hierarchy. Right now he's in kind of a weird spot between being a lower-tier main eventer (the type who can headline a minor pay-per-view if he's wrestling a major star but who is unlikely to actually beat the major star) and a midcard gatekeeper (the type of guy who you prove yourself against to show that you might have a chance against the big stars). If Suzuki loses to Shibata in the first round then I think he is definitely a midcarder.

I can't wait for the Omega/Ishii match. I've been salivating for a match between those two guys ever since Kenny went heavyweight, and those two guys being the MVPs of their respective blocks in the G1 only made me more excited for the possibilities. I don't think there's a more appealing first-time match that you could possibly make with this roster.

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packerman120
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by packerman120 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:17 am

New Japan giving me a birthday present with that Ishii vs. Omega match. Nearly shouted in excitement when I saw out. Either-way, I think the final is going to be Tanahashi vs. Suzuki, with Suzuki winning. I had the semis being Tanahashi vs. Yano (gotta have the ol' Yano BS) and Omega vs. Suzuki. I say this because Tanahashi and Suzuki do have the past together, and if you have Suzuki win, you can continue the Okada storyline. What this does also is it keeps Omega away a little longer to build up more anticipation for the eventual Omega vs. Okada II matchup, and also could set-up Omega vs. Suzuki in the future. Yet again, I'm not sure, as EVIL over Tanahashi is totally something that would also make sense given story and the way NJPW like to book. Either way, this is gonna be one hell of a tournament.

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dancecab
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by dancecab » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:28 pm

I don't know if this has been brought up before but my new favorite thing in NJPW is in their results section of the english site, they have full promo breakdowns. Hiromu's promos seem as crazy as his in ring style.

Example from Honor Rising Night 2:
Hiromu (enters, applauding):
‘Excellent. Ryusuke Taguchi, excellent. Awesome, awesome. Everything he does is great. Brilliant, Mr. Taguchi. What can I do? How can I piss off Taguchi? Is it even possible? Well I'll just have to use force. Force, force. Until you're screaming, calling out. Like the people. “Taguchi, Taguchi, Taguchi”. So many people cheering you. What's wrong? Don't you like me? Don't you like little ol’ me? Please, I beg of you, like me more, more, more! More! MORE!!! (Clutches head)
Ah, again! Again! I had another nightmare last night. I see it every night, stuck in that ankle lock. I hate it! (Starts singing)
One, two, Taguchi coming for you.
Three, four, better lock your door.
Five, six, grab a crucifix.
Seven, eight, stay up late.
Nine, ten, never sleep again.
Can't sleep. Can't sleep.
One, two, Taguchi coming for you.
Three, four, better lock your door.
Five, six, grab a crucifix,
Seven, eight… (looks at the belt and leaves while singing)'
Last edited by dancecab on Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Danwaka
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Danwaka » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:43 pm

Nightmare on Elm Street?

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Tigerkinney
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Tigerkinney » Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:27 pm

So looking back at some of the discussion in terms of the venues being used for this years New Japan Cup- I've done some proper research and looked into the tour's drawing potential.

1st Round

Aichi Prefectural Gymnasium (Nagoya)

2016: Road to Invasion Attack (4000), G-1 Climax (5500), World Tag League (3070)

- They are pretty much relying on Hiroshi Tanahashi vs EVIL to be a strong enough draw to an arena that can pack in over 5000. I think if they draw over 4000 to the show, then they can say that it's a moderate success. The 3070 for World Tag League just goes to show that even the Japanese fans don't really give a crap about that tournament- given how poorly the Tag titles are booked (the one legitimate weak point in Gedo's booking) in NJPW why would they?

Hyogo BCOM Gymnasium

- I cannot find any information on this venue or how big it potentially could be, but I would imagine it would hold at least 3000 at the minimum. Hyogo is the prefecture, so I'm not even sure what city this venue is in, but Kobe is the main big city located in Hyogo prefecture with other fairly major cities being Amagasaki and Himeji.

Quarter Finals

Fukui Prefectural Industrial Hall

2015: Road To Power Struggle (850)

- Last used in 2015 for a Road to Show, this doesn't appear to be a particularly large venue and probably holds around 1000 fans. The fact that this venue isn't all that big suggests to me that we can't rule out the possibility of EVIL upsetting Tanahashi in the first round.

Strongest possible drawing match: Tanahashi vs Honma/ Weakest: EVIL vs Roa

Shiga Prefectural Cultural Exchange Interhouse

2015?: New Japan Cup - House Show (1000)

- I can't find any information on a venue with that exact name, but it's possible this venue used to be called Shiga Industrial Bunka Exchange Hall- which was last used in 2015 at a House Show on the 2015 New Japan Cup tour.

Strongest: Elgin vs Yano/ Weakest: Fale vs Tonga

Nagano Matsumoto Tadashi Park Gymnasium

- Cannot find any info what so ever on this venue, but given that Fukui and Shiga are at the most the size of Korakuen Hall, suggests to me that this place is another 'Road To' style venue. In terms of potential quarter finals this one pits an obvious favourite in whoever survives between Suzuki and Shibata, against someone whose run is obviously going to end in the quarter finals in Juice or Yujiro- so whatever headlines this show is completely reliant on Suzuki or Shibata being a strong enough draw.

Strongest: Suzuki vs Robinson/ Weakest: Shibata vs Yujiro

Saitama Tokorozawa Citizen Gymnasium Sub-Arena

2016: Road To New Beginning (1,126), G-1 Climax (1'511)

- This place was used for the G-1 last year, but that's not to say that this is hardly a big time venue. At most you are looking at something around the size of Korakuen again. The G-1 show was definitely one of the lesser ones as it was headlined by Tanahashi vs Bad Luck Fale with Okada vs Tama Tonga as the semi main event. Saying that this does appear to be the biggest of the quarter final venues and it's no coincidence that it's weakest potential drawing match in Ishii vs YOSHI-HASHI is the strongest of the weakest potential drawing quarter finals.

Strongest: Omega vs SANADA /Weakest: Ishii vs YOSHI-HASHI

All in all these Quarter Finals are taking place in venues more akin to holding Road To level shows. Perhaps the idea this year was to give fans that go to these smaller venues, that only get to see cards full of multi-man tags, something with a bit more juice. That's the only possible reason I can see why they decided to split up the quarters over a bunch of smaller shows, as opposed to holding on one Korakuen Hall card like they usually do.

Semi Finals

Shizuoka Act City Hamamatsu

2016: Road To Invasion Attack (1850), G-1 Climax (3200)

- This was also used in last year's G-1, with a show headlined by Naito vs EVIL. It appears to be a venue that holds just over 3000 fans, so I think as long as they have at least one of the bigger draws (Tanahashi, Omega, Suzuki, Shibata) in the semi final mix, they should be able to draw around that number.

Final

Niigata Aore Nagaoka

2016: The New Beginning in Niigata (3603)

- This held the lesser of the two New Beginning shows last year, headlined by the Tanahashi vs Omega decision match for the then vacant IC strap. This was of course prior to Omega being built up to being one of the current NJPW Big 4 alongside Okada, Tanahashi and Naito.

All in all the choice of Finals venue is a reasonably big sized arena, but not one that needs the finals to be Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kenny Omega to draw near it's capacity. Though as with the semi finals, I think at least one of Tanahashi, Omega, Suzuki and Shibata needs to be in the final to draw a decent crowd, with Tanahashi requiring the least amount of help in being able to draw in terms of his finals opponent.

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suplexberry
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by suplexberry » Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:41 pm

This Taguchi vs Hiromu feud is so friggin' great. I love how deathly scared of Hiromu is of the ankle lock, I love the demented promos, I love the weird tongue action and how this feud is bringing out both the dangerous smarts of Taguchi and a new level of crazed cockiness in Hiromu. The little comments tying this all back to Hiromu's initial dojo try-out are great, too.

New Japan Road today was nothing to write home about but the Shibata vs Suzuki feud continues to be hot, LIJ vs Taguchi Japan tag was great (they are really putting a lot behind EVIL vs Tana) and the main event was a fun time. Hopefully Tiger Mask W can breathe okay in this latest mask of his.

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Jacob's Bawks
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Jacob's Bawks » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:33 pm

The Finals have already sold out, TigerKinney. They can theoretically put anyone in the Finals and it wouldn't hurt business, lol.

It's interesting to me that they chose a large venue to start the tourney and decide to cut the opening round across two shows. They'll sell well either way, but I figured you'd try to put your best foot forward and try to sell out that sumbitch.
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Tigerkinney
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Tigerkinney » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:57 pm

Jacob's Bawks wrote:The Finals have already sold out, TigerKinney. They can theoretically put anyone in the Finals and it wouldn't hurt business, lol.

It's interesting to me that they chose a large venue to start the tourney and decide to cut the opening round across two shows. They'll sell well either way, but I figured you'd try to put your best foot forward and try to sell out that sumbitch.
Well that's great news, that the New Japan Cup Finals can just sell themselves for a mid-sized venue like Niigata :) How near to a sell out was Kenny vs Tanahashi last year in that building?

I find the whole 1/4 finals spread out over a bunch of shows in 1-2000 seater buildings even stranger, but I suppose it's nice for the NJPW fans outside of the major cities to get something other than meaningless multi-man tags for once.

The two first round shows, semi's and Finals are all being shown live on New Japan World. Nothing listed for the quarter finals yet, but I guess they might do the whole one day delay deal for the tournament matches.

Finally it turns out that the Hyogo BCOM is a re-named Amagasaki City Memorial Park General Gym. Last show to be held there was a Road to Invasion Attack show in 2016 that drew 3411 fans and was headlined by Tomohiro Ishii defending the ROH TV title against EVIL.

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EvanDeadlySins
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by EvanDeadlySins » Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:17 pm

Kenny vs Tanahashi sold out on the day of the show, though at higher ticket prices than the Cup final.

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Grammarian
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Grammarian » Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:47 pm

Happy to see Tiger Mask W has a new mask that seems easier to work in. Just in time for the Okada match.
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DojoBro19
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by DojoBro19 » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:13 am

I really enjoyed today's main event. Probably Tiger Mask IV's last main event. After the last 2 Okada/Ibushi matches in DDT and NJPW, in excited for Monday.

On a sidenote, has a DL link come out for Greatest Music V yet? Usually there's one the same day the CD comes out but still can't find anything.

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Buzz Sawyer
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Buzz Sawyer » Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:04 pm

Wonder why Gedo doesn't like to have strong Tag Teams? It was a staple in AJPW/NOAH for years and it would breathe life into wrestlers that sometimes can get stale. Imagine a Sanada/Evil team going to war against Tanahashi/Elgin ? Gedo could also do the old, "be his partner one day and the next be his opponent". That happened all the time in AJPW it seemed.
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