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Garuda
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Garuda » Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:06 pm

Kind of wish they just shoved Gedo/Jado/Yano into the trios gauntlet as additional entrants, as strange as that would be.

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Jacob's Bawks
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Jacob's Bawks » Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:37 pm

I had high hopes for the NEVER match and it'll still be better than the one from WK10. The tag match has to be really tight to reach the expectations I was having for it. Neither match will be terrible, but this was an unnecessary headache. Still looking forward to the show and don't want to come off like I'm not.

Also if you haven't caught it, NJPW made all of the old January 4th shows free from now until WK11. They don't have all the matches due to ownership issues (WK2 was absolutely gutted), but it looks like they added a ton.
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Frank Olson
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Frank Olson » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:16 am

I love Toru Yano but if they had to include him on the main Wrestle Kingdom card (and not just in the Rambo) then it would have been so much better to add him to the NEVER 6-man gauntlet (either with The Briscoes if they were available or with Jado and Gedo) than to fuck up that previously awesome CHAOS team of Ishii/Ospreay/YOSHI-HASHI. I still think the NEVER gauntlet will be fun, but I have way less interest in the Tag Title match now than I did previously.

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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by suplexberry » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:03 am

I tried to rewatch the best of 2016 a few days back, but I only got as far Dominion. I then tried to pick my rewatches from the G1 but honestly I've forgotten half of it already. I sat there staring at the Recommended Matches thread from this forum and being like, "Did I even watch Naito vs Shibata?" (I did, 100% because I didn't skip a single show but fuck if I remember any of it, or whether I liked it).

With that said, I've rewatched Naito vs Omega and Okada vs Ishii several times by now. Both hold up.

Really cool about the WK matches being free. I know some casuals are just never going to bite but at least they can see what the fuss is about by watching the last three matches of last year.

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wac
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by wac » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:30 am

wac wrote:Has anyone else been having problems with NJPW World video lagging in full screen mode? The audio will keep going but the picture freezes every few minutes and only fixes itself when I exit out of full screen. It's incredibly frustrating.
I think this was a problem on my end, I uninstalled and reinstalled Adobe Flash Player and that seems to have done the trick.

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Joe Lanza
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Joe Lanza » Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:05 am

suplexberry wrote:I tried to rewatch the best of 2016 a few days back, but I only got as far Dominion. I then tried to pick my rewatches from the G1 but honestly I've forgotten half of it already. I sat there staring at the Recommended Matches thread from this forum and being like, "Did I even watch Naito vs Shibata?" (I did, 100% because I didn't skip a single show but fuck if I remember any of it, or whether I liked it).

With that said, I've rewatched Naito vs Omega and Okada vs Ishii several times by now. Both hold up.

Really cool about the WK matches being free. I know some casuals are just never going to bite but at least they can see what the fuss is about by watching the last three matches of last year.
Funny thing about this post.

When I look over my sheet for my MOTY lists, if I can't remember it, that means it didn't resonate, and I eliminate it. It almost always works out, because in almost every case I have good recall of anything over ****1/4. It's funny how my rating almost always align with how I feel by the end of the year. The ****-****1/4 stuff, especially the wave of G1 matches, blends together, but the ****1/2+ stuff always manages to resonate.

Years from now, the two great "discoveries" for wrestling historians will be the best of TNA, and the "Naito vs Shibata" G1 matches that fall low end ****. TNA because nobody pays attention in real time, and the G1 bouts because all of the MOTY level stuff gets all of the attention. 2013-2016 G1's are loaded with **** matches that would be the best bouts of many other tournaments or PPV's. But they totally get lost in the shuffle of the super high end stuff.

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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by ayaashm » Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:27 am

When I completed my G1 rewatch yesterday, one thing that struck me was how absolutely great Okada was in the tourney. His stuff was by far the best in the tourney and he has the most or the 2nd most ****+ matches in my list. Maybe Ishii topped him,which he probably did but my god,Okada is soo good & he's so young. Is this how Kobashi/Kawada/Misawa/Akiyama were viewed in their early-mid 20s as Okada is now.
Perhaps more stuff makes tape now,but that only accentuates the point when you see how good he's in 8-man's and 6-man tags. Maybe it's because he's a Toryumon guy but he's so much fun in those tags as compared to Naito or Tanahashi and even Omega.
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Rainmaker_F7 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:30 am

Joe Lanza wrote:
suplexberry wrote:I tried to rewatch the best of 2016 a few days back, but I only got as far Dominion. I then tried to pick my rewatches from the G1 but honestly I've forgotten half of it already. I sat there staring at the Recommended Matches thread from this forum and being like, "Did I even watch Naito vs Shibata?" (I did, 100% because I didn't skip a single show but fuck if I remember any of it, or whether I liked it).

With that said, I've rewatched Naito vs Omega and Okada vs Ishii several times by now. Both hold up.

Really cool about the WK matches being free. I know some casuals are just never going to bite but at least they can see what the fuss is about by watching the last three matches of last year.
Funny thing about this post.

When I look over my sheet for my MOTY lists, if I can't remember it, that means it didn't resonate, and I eliminate it. It almost always works out, because in almost every case I have good recall of anything over ****1/4. It's funny how my rating almost always align with how I feel by the end of the year. The ****-****1/4 stuff, especially the wave of G1 matches, blends together, but the ****1/2+ stuff always manages to resonate.

Years from now, the two great "discoveries" for wrestling historians will be the best of TNA, and the "Naito vs Shibata" G1 matches that fall low end ****. TNA because nobody pays attention in real time, and the G1 bouts because all of the MOTY level stuff gets all of the attention. 2013-2016 G1's are loaded with **** matches that would be the best bouts of many other tournaments or PPV's. But they totally get lost in the shuffle of the super high end
stuff.

Yeah every year there are matches like those. AJ vs Naito, Tenzan vs Goto, Ishii vs DBS, Ishii vs Nagata from 24, Ishii vs Nagata, Okada vs Nagata, Elgin vs Honma from 25, Elgin vs Naito, Naito vs Shibata, Nagata vs Nakajima, Tenzan vs Ishii, Ishii vs Goto from this year's tournament. Neither of those matches get/got MOTY buzz, but they were all really awesome, **** - **** 1/2 range, usually overshadowed by a better match on the show later. I am almost done with my rewatch and gonna post dem star ratings later today/tomorrow in the MOTYC thread.

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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by suplexberry » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:11 pm

G1 truly is its own worst enemy. I felt pretty dismissive towards these matches I'd forgotten, but then I rewatched that damn Naito vs Shibata match, which I'd also forgotten the outcome of, and it was really, really good. Shibata seemed hurt as fuck (more than usual) during the whole of G1 and there were so many moments in that match that made me gasp. Naito definitely played a heel, and the crowd began 50-50 but ended up 80-20 in favor of Shibata.

It may not have left a huge impression on me amidst the G1 embarrassment of riches, but rewatching made me really want a main event between these two in 2017. It wasn't the platonic ideal of a match between the two of these guys, but it was definitely an appetizer for one.

My personal treasure trove of overlooked matches is every Goto vs Ishii match, those two have such good chemistry together. The one in 2014 is one I still remember fondly every now and then.

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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by ayaashm » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:21 pm

Oh the one from 2014 is one of my favourites. When I showed that match and then the Ishii-Shibata match to one of my friends who's not that into wrestling, they thought the entire thing was a shoot.
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Macrobe » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:49 am

suplexberry wrote:G1 truly is its own worst enemy. I felt pretty dismissive towards these matches I'd forgotten, but then I rewatched that damn Naito vs Shibata match, which I'd also forgotten the outcome of, and it was really, really good. Shibata seemed hurt as fuck (more than usual) during the whole of G1 and there were so many moments in that match that made me gasp. Naito definitely played a heel, and the crowd began 50-50 but ended up 80-20 in favor of Shibata.

It may not have left a huge impression on me amidst the G1 embarrassment of riches, but rewatching made me really want a main event between these two in 2017. It wasn't the platonic ideal of a match between the two of these guys, but it was definitely an appetizer for one.
Really agree about this match, it was a sleeper favourite for me this year. It got a good-but-not-great reception at the time, and I think it had a lot to do with it being an unusual pace and style of match for both guys. I think people came in expecting a fast pace and Shibata beating the hell out of Naito, and instead we got this deliberate, heated, snug submission-style match. I loved it though, it really highlighted Shibata's selling which I think is a big strength for him (when he's not no-selling); the way he yelled and grimaced when in Naito's holds was super convincing imo. As you said they really turned a 50-50 crowd into one that got behind Shibata and the finish, with him hitting the PK and then choking Naito out, was brutal and satisfying.
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by EvanDeadlySins » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:07 pm

Regarding what Shibata has said about "sealing" the NEVER Openweight Championship, which we can only assume to mean retiring it, I found some interesting news and I've come up with a theory that I think is fairly compelling.

(Source: http://aozora-band.com/wpwn/archives/29942) Kidani talked a short while back about only 3 Lion's Gate shows happening in 2016, but wanting to expand it - he gave a number of 30 shows per year, but I doubt that's happening in 2017. However, it would make sense if the NEVER was "sealed" and either made the de facto title of Lion's Gate or retired entirely for a new belt, which would jive with the rumors circulating of NJPW getting new title belts.

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suplexberry
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by suplexberry » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:41 pm

Macrobe wrote:Really agree about this match, it was a sleeper favourite for me this year. It got a good-but-not-great reception at the time, and I think it had a lot to do with it being an unusual pace and style of match for both guys. I think people came in expecting a fast pace and Shibata beating the hell out of Naito, and instead we got this deliberate, heated, snug submission-style match. I loved it though, it really highlighted Shibata's selling which I think is a big strength for him (when he's not no-selling); the way he yelled and grimaced when in Naito's holds was super convincing imo. As you said they really turned a 50-50 crowd into one that got behind Shibata and the finish, with him hitting the PK and then choking Naito out, was brutal and satisfying.
Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head wrt pacing. I think people expect sprints for G1 matches, and some of the most memorable ones have a relentless pace. This one had strong character work, a slower pace (Naito burning minutes by powdering, some count-out teases, then moving to working on the shoulder injury and submission based matwork). It was intense and good, but when you're watching five G1 matches per day (or catching up by watching fifteen a day), this kind of match gets forgotten, or overlooked in favor of that breakneck pace sprint. Fascinating phenomenon. If I was less lazy I'd go back and rewatch more of these overlooked G1 main events.

Evan, I really like this theory! Also, if they are gonna push Shibata a lot more next year, makes sense that he would be the champion to retire on that belt.

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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Jacob's Bawks » Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:27 am

Shibata retiring the belt would make sense, but part of me wants a junior to take the title off of Shibata (or Goto.) It'd be a good momentum boost for someone like Ospreay and for once be used for its original purpose.
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by King Of Indy Style » Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:48 am

I want to see more juniors wrestle for the NEVER Title as well. I love it being the "Beat the living shit out of each other title" and I love those kinds of matches but some changes of pace would be cool. Why not have Ospreay vs. Ricochet for the title? Or.....KUSHIDA vs. Kojima? I think you could get more mileage out of it that way. That way when a match like Shibata vs. Ishii happens where they try to kill each other for it, it feels like a bigger deal.
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