NJPW (Discussion)

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Tigerkinney
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Tigerkinney » Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:15 pm

dylanjstx wrote:Omega pinned the champion in the middle of the ring and then beat the piss out of one of the top guys in the company. I don't care what happened the night before, I don't care what happened the week before, I don't care what he's been doing since he's been brought into the company. Everything was explained in that promo at New Year Dash. He was forced to be a junior, didn't want to be one. He doesn't care that he lost to KUSHIDA. He attacked his leader and now he's the top heel in the company, what more could you possibly want? What is lazy about that booking and what doesn't make sense? Not everything needs to be built up to for two years to make sense. I'm watching the same thing as you and all of this makes perfect sense to me. Complaining about this of all things is silly.
Well in all honesty, we've all beaten this Omega topic like a dead horse now :P It's only really a couple of posters on here who feel that the way Omega's elevation to the heavyweight ranks was executed illogically. Let them think what they think, it isn't going to change my mind that it was a really well executed angle and in all likelyhood various explanations in regards to the angles logic are just falling on deaf ears because most of the time when it comes to having an opinion, people just like to dig their heels in and not let go of what they feel is right.

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wac
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by wac » Thu Jan 07, 2016 5:56 pm

sternness wrote:
wac wrote:What's the logic here exactly?
That the Misawa/Omega comparison is off because the All Japan tag title was a main event title and the IWGP Jr. Title means nothing?
But that's a completely irrelevant side issue to the main argument that it's a mistake to elevate Omega because he lost to Kushida.

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sternness
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by sternness » Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:34 pm

wac wrote:
sternness wrote:
wac wrote:What's the logic here exactly?
That the Misawa/Omega comparison is off because the All Japan tag title was a main event title and the IWGP Jr. Title means nothing?
But that's a completely irrelevant side issue to the main argument that it's a mistake to elevate Omega because he lost to Kushida.
Well, it's not exactly irrelevant and it's kind of part of the main argument because Rich said "Were you screaming to the high heavens when Misawa lost the tag belts then won the GHC Title a month later? (This happened to my knowledge at least twice) or when that same scenario happened to Misawa on a near year to year basic in mid 90s All Japan? " in response to Chismo saying it was a mistake. It was something used to combat Chismo's argument against what at the surface is kind of a doofy move but given teh circumstances, I get it.

My gripe was the comparison was really off point because of the clear difference in the IWGP Jr. Title vs. the GHC Tag Titles (which were a big deal once upon a time and headlined shows) and the All Japan tag titles (which at one point were main event titles usually reserved for teams consisting of either two top stars or a top star and midcard guy so the belt could still headline shows and draw money) and especially because the scenarios with Misawa never even happened (and it took no time at all to really look that stuff up so I don't wanna hear any shit about how it's some time consuming to that kind of research, at least make sure you'er right before saying something like that) which renders the whole "well it happened with this guy and these titles so it's okay to do it here" argument invalid.

I have no problem with what they did with Omega, it's completely fine given the circumstances and he's much more in line I'm just here because trying to compare the IWGP Jr. Title in 2016 to titles that actually mattered and headlined shows and drew money is batshit crazy and I really expect better from folks on here.

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Joe Lanza
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Joe Lanza » Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:28 pm

Rich picked an example off the top of his head and it happened to not be the best example. I think everybody gets the idea and the overall point.

This is going in circles, but the Omega/KUSHIDA thing is beyond nit picky. Once Omega beat Nak and ran AJ out of the company all in one night, the KUSHIDA match became ancient history. It really doesn't even need to go any deeper than that.

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Goat
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Goat » Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:36 am

Buzz Sawyer wrote:
Goat wrote:
DXvsNWO wrote:So apparently Nakumura is done at the end of the month now? Crazy stuff...
His contract ends on the 31st. Knowing WWE's track record with this stuff would you trust anything after his contract is up? Getting the belt off of him and getting him out the door as soon as possible is the safest thing they can do.
What do you mean the WWE's track record?
In most recent memory would be Del Rio, but they've had guys no show dates for other promotions since the start of the expansion way back in the day. Fuck man look what they did to Verne.

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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by BoxingRobes » Fri Jan 08, 2016 4:58 am

Joe Lanza wrote:Rich picked an example off the top of his head and it happened to not be the best example. I think everybody gets the idea and the overall point.

This is going in circles, but the Omega/KUSHIDA thing is beyond nit picky. Once Omega beat Nak and ran AJ out of the company all in one night, the KUSHIDA match became ancient history. It really doesn't even need to go any deeper than that.
Omega even dismissed a rematch with KUSHIDA himself in the post-match shenanigans and moved on.

Omega moving up is just the right thing to do from every angle. They are about to lose most of the Bullet Club. They are about to lose their two main event stars. Very short notice, but they needed to make haste on some of these eventual turns and moves up the card. Omega was moving up anyway, sooner rather than later and by necessity, sooner than that. Hopefully Ibushi comes back soon and the always great Omega-Ibushi feud can kind of take over that level of the card where Nakamura would dominate.

Curious where they replace some of this lost depth. Return of Suzuki-gun? Bring over some more ROH talent? Start shaking things up with a big signing. Very interested. Losing Nak is a net negative any way you look at it, but losing some of the Bullet Club and simply replacing them with something fresh has me genuinely intrigued. That upper mid-card outside of the Okada and Tanahashi feuds loses so much with Nak and Styles leaving. Styles can be replaced. Nak, not replaceable. This is where failing to elevate Goto, Naito (although, he's on the cusp of a chance at this level again, IMO), and the loss of Ibushi is really hurting NJPW.

I might be the only guy on the planet that loves Kenny Omega's maniacal villain gimmick. I don't even want it toned down. I get a kick out of the over the top comic book villain schitck every time.

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H.U.S.T.L.E.
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by H.U.S.T.L.E. » Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:54 pm

Replenishing the depth is the most interesting discussion point to me. The remaining Bullet Club guys are question marks for now, but if Tonga & Fale stick around they'll be elevated for sure. Their ranks have been bloated for a while and paring down the group will be good for the guys sticking around.

Maybe Yuji Nagata will be leaned upon a little more this year... Okada defending his title against the old guard could be a nice way to fill time (kinda like the Shingo DG run, just not as a complete dick). Defenses against Nagata, Kojima, Makabe types could make for an interesting change of pace while they build a contender like Naito. Wouldn't shock me if Masato Tanaka comes in for spots too (although he hasn't appeared for New Japan since 2013).

New Japan would also be crazy not to sign BIG MIKE to a deal. He's over. And let's face it - he's way more valuable to NJPW now than ROH. After ROH works Japan, I'll be very interested to see what happens with Elgin.

I'm hopeful that the Briscoes get a good run in New Japan too. They're being eased in and attached to a popular native performer, so hopefully they'll gain traction and can help replenish the tag ranks.

Then there's Suzuki-gun... obviously NJPW's business comes before NOAH's, but I'd personally like to see them stay away until the G1 (then give me Suzuki, Benjamin & K.E.S. to fill out the field). I think they mean far more in NOAH right now than they would in NJPW. Remember, you still have two heel groups with Bullet Club continuing and Los Ingobernables filling out some other spots on the card.

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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by dancecab » Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:31 pm

Am I the only one who think it's not out of the realm of possibility that we may see Marafuji, Shiozaki or Sugira come to NJPW for a title shot of some sort this year? I think at least for the short term while they are building up Omega, Shibata and Naito that we may get some outsider involvement just to make the big shows mean a little something extra. Especially with arguably the current default #3 Ibushi out for the time being.

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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by jesse » Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:08 pm

The only Japanese guy I could see New Japan bringing in is Sanada and even then I doubt that. They're pretty particular when it comes to guys that haven't been in their dojo system. The whole reason Suzuki-Gun was gone is because they didn't have any room for them. I still don't think they have room for them. They're better off being the big antagonistic force in NOAH than an after thought in New Japan. Bullet Club isn't going anywhere and Los Ingobernables have taken over that Suzuki-Gun spot.

The only guys they really need to build up are Naito and Omega. Goto too if you still really believe there's any chance of him doing anything as a face. If Ibushi came back tomorrow you could slot him into a main event program with no issue. As for Shibata this is a guy that (while he did give the wins back) beat Nakamura and Tanahashi during a G1. He isn't someone that really needs a lot of big wins. He has an aura all his own and he's still part of that Musketeers trio. They don't need to do much with him other than keep him strong and see how he draws. That and actually re-sign him to the company. If they want a quick PR boost when Nakamura leaves there isn't much better they can do than have Shibata under the lion mark again for the first time since like 2004. It's a good thing for them that they've always kept him relatively strong in their booking.
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rollup
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by rollup » Fri Jan 08, 2016 4:08 pm

i dun mind a naito vs ishii feud to build him (naito)up again

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PKThree
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by PKThree » Fri Jan 08, 2016 4:19 pm

Suzuki-Gun isn't coming back from NOAH any time soon. The direction out of Destiny is that they are being more firmly inserted into NOAH proper

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Drew Wardlaw
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Drew Wardlaw » Fri Jan 08, 2016 4:54 pm

i just want some important Yuji Nagata matches in 2016.

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wac
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by wac » Fri Jan 08, 2016 4:55 pm

jesse wrote:The only Japanese guy I could see New Japan bringing in is Sanada and even then I doubt that. They're pretty particular when it comes to guys that haven't been in their dojo system.
Could you see them bringing in a guy like HARASHIMA in for a spot, or is that storyline done or strictly a DDT feud? I think it would be cool, and it's something to do with Tanahashi that keeps him out of the title picture for now, but I don't know what the politics or feasibility is.

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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:24 pm

Drew Wardlaw wrote:i just want some important Yuji Nagata matches in 2016.
You may!


....just not in New Japan.

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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by jesse » Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:30 pm

wac wrote:
jesse wrote:The only Japanese guy I could see New Japan bringing in is Sanada and even then I doubt that. They're pretty particular when it comes to guys that haven't been in their dojo system.
Could you see them bringing in a guy like HARASHIMA in for a spot, or is that storyline done or strictly a DDT feud? I think it would be cool, and it's something to do with Tanahashi that keeps him out of the title picture for now, but I don't know what the politics or feasibility is.
Honestly no. I can't really see them bringing in any DDT guys at this point. That and Tana looks like he's going to have to be a big player for the IC belt.
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