King's Road - The All Japan Thread

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Ferrante207
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Re: King's Road - The All Japan Thread

Post by Ferrante207 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:45 pm

Do people actually like Suwama? Very casual follower of this promotion, so keep that in mind. Dude wrestles so slow. He wrestles the way I imagine Yugi Ngata will in a decade. It's like strong style in slow mo. The main event sucked until the last 8 min or so. Miyahara looks great, want to see him wrestle some more capable guys. Maybe I just don't appreciate some sort working him over so slowly as he sells. I just don't get selling maybe? Can he get some singles matches with either of the strong bj guys?

Strong BJ vs Big Guns was by far the best match on the card.

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Buzz Sawyer
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Re: King's Road - The All Japan Thread

Post by Buzz Sawyer » Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:05 pm

Ferrante207 wrote:Do people actually like Suwama? Very casual follower of this promotion, so keep that in mind. Dude wrestles so slow. He wrestles the way I imagine Yugi Ngata will in a decade. It's like strong style in slow mo. The main event sucked until the last 8 min or so. Miyahara looks great, want to see him wrestle some more capable guys. Maybe I just don't appreciate some sort working him over so slowly as he sells. I just don't get selling maybe? Can he get some singles matches with either of the strong bj guys?

Strong BJ vs Big Guns was by far the best match on the card.
I don't see Yuji Nagata wrestling at 55.
Who's Rob Viper ?

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Ferrante207
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Re: King's Road - The All Japan Thread

Post by Ferrante207 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:40 pm

Buzz Sawyer wrote:
Ferrante207 wrote:Do people actually like Suwama? Very casual follower of this promotion, so keep that in mind. Dude wrestles so slow. He wrestles the way I imagine Yugi Ngata will in a decade. It's like strong style in slow mo. The main event sucked until the last 8 min or so. Miyahara looks great, want to see him wrestle some more capable guys. Maybe I just don't appreciate some sort working him over so slowly as he sells. I just don't get selling maybe? Can he get some singles matches with either of the strong bj guys?

Strong BJ vs Big Guns was by far the best match on the card.
I don't see Yuji Nagata wrestling at 55.
But if he does, he'll be working like Suwama!

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PKThree
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Re: King's Road - The All Japan Thread

Post by PKThree » Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:51 pm

Ferrante207 wrote:Do people actually like Suwama? Very casual follower of this promotion, so keep that in mind. Dude wrestles so slow. He wrestles the way I imagine Yugi Ngata will in a decade. It's like strong style in slow mo. The main event sucked until the last 8 min or so. Miyahara looks great, want to see him wrestle some more capable guys. Maybe I just don't appreciate some sort working him over so slowly as he sells. I just don't get selling maybe? Can he get some singles matches with either of the strong bj guys?

Strong BJ vs Big Guns was by far the best match on the card.
Suwama is the biggest star All Japan has produced since the NOAH split. He wrestles like a callback to the old school All Japan stars in the 80s like Jumbo Tsuruta, to the point of being nicknamed the spirit of Jumbo by the fans. He's probably their biggest draw amongst the old school fans outside of Akiyama and probably Omori.

As for his ring work, I just think he is a acquired taste tarnished by fans expecting every Japanese worker to be a high paced Shibata style intense striker. Suwama wrestles a more slow, methodical style where he wears his opponent down steadily before finishing him off. So if you go in expecting him to be high pace you are probably going to be disappointed or turned off by him. He works towards his strengths since he cannot go at that pace due to his serious asthma.

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Re: King's Road - The All Japan Thread

Post by Ferrante207 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:59 pm

PKThree wrote:
Ferrante207 wrote:Do people actually like Suwama? Very casual follower of this promotion, so keep that in mind. Dude wrestles so slow. He wrestles the way I imagine Yugi Ngata will in a decade. It's like strong style in slow mo. The main event sucked until the last 8 min or so. Miyahara looks great, want to see him wrestle some more capable guys. Maybe I just don't appreciate some sort working him over so slowly as he sells. I just don't get selling maybe? Can he get some singles matches with either of the strong bj guys?

Strong BJ vs Big Guns was by far the best match on the card.
Suwama is the biggest star All Japan has produced since the NOAH split. He wrestles like a callback to the old school All Japan stars in the 80s like Jumbo Tsuruta, to the point of being nicknamed the spirit of Jumbo by the fans. He's probably their biggest draw amongst the old school fans outside of Akiyama and probably Omori.

As for his ring work, I just think he is a acquired taste tarnished by fans expecting every Japanese worker to be a high paced Shibata style intense striker. Suwama wrestles a more slow, methodical style where he wears his opponent down steadily before finishing him off. So if you go in expecting him to be high pace you are probably going to be disappointed or turned off by him. He works towards his strengths since he cannot go at that pace due to his serious asthma.
This is a solid explanation. Thank you. I just do not think he moves as well as even Jumbo, and Jumbo's strikes and slams are much more impactful. But I prefer Jumbo as the heavy in tags, so maybe that's why I'm not drawn to Suwama singles stuff. I'll give this match a re-watch and focus on the slow methodical stuff coupled with Miyahara's selling.

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Re: King's Road - The All Japan Thread

Post by van Fair » Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:01 pm

Ferrante207 wrote:Do people actually like Suwama? Very casual follower of this promotion, so keep that in mind. Dude wrestles so slow. He wrestles the way I imagine Yugi Ngata will in a decade. It's like strong style in slow mo. The main event sucked until the last 8 min or so. Miyahara looks great, want to see him wrestle some more capable guys. Maybe I just don't appreciate some sort working him over so slowly as he sells. I just don't get selling maybe? Can he get some singles matches with either of the strong bj guys?

Strong BJ vs Big Guns was by far the best match on the card.
He already faced and beat Sekimoto. Okabayashi is a likely challenger in the near future and that match should be amazing.
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Re: King's Road - The All Japan Thread

Post by PKThree » Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:07 pm

Ferrante207 wrote: This is a solid explanation. Thank you. I just do not think he moves as well as even Jumbo, and Jumbo's strikes and slams are much more impactful. But I prefer Jumbo as the heavy in tags, so maybe that's why I'm not drawn to Suwama singles stuff. I'll give this match a re-watch and focus on the slow methodical stuff coupled with Miyahara's selling.
He's definitely best suited as a tag worker. As for his recent form since returning. We should take into account that he did tare his Achilles tendon and was out for about half a year, probably hard to keep up form with a torn Achilles. He was probably rushed back as well.

They've produced talents who have been "better" workers than him, but he's been the one who really connected with the fanbase and remained loyal no matter what. Which explains his status as ace for so long.

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Re: King's Road - The All Japan Thread

Post by Ferrante207 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:29 pm

van Fair wrote:
Ferrante207 wrote:Do people actually like Suwama? Very casual follower of this promotion, so keep that in mind. Dude wrestles so slow. He wrestles the way I imagine Yugi Ngata will in a decade. It's like strong style in slow mo. The main event sucked until the last 8 min or so. Miyahara looks great, want to see him wrestle some more capable guys. Maybe I just don't appreciate some sort working him over so slowly as he sells. I just don't get selling maybe? Can he get some singles matches with either of the strong bj guys?

Strong BJ vs Big Guns was by far the best match on the card.
He already faced and beat Sekimoto. Okabayashi is a likely challenger in the near future and that match should be amazing.
I will have to seek this out. Love the strong bj guys.

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Re: King's Road - The All Japan Thread

Post by Irving » Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:23 pm

Suwama is hard to explain. He has always been a top strat even during his rookie years to the fact that he was beating Muto less than a year clean in singles matches. He truly didn't get time to develop and had to grow into a main eventer fast. He has been involved in many fun to excellent tag and singles matches and was always a reliable main event performer but his asthma and Achilles injury have caught up with him. He definitely is a better tag worker as his team's with Shuji Kondo, Takumi Soya, and Joe Doering were all pretty fantastic.

Let him tag and be a wildly unpredictable character (flashbacks of him throwing tables, chairs, and even microphones into the audience). That's what he wants to do and that's where he excels. Also fans genuinely react to him, they treat him like a big deal and so that in itself is a big deal.

Check out of some of his singles work against Osamu Nishimura, Masakatsu Funaki, Yoshihiro Takayama, and of course the Tanahashi CC Final. Some of those guys Kay have led but he was more than capable of keeping up especially for someone at those times with only a handful years of experience.

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Re: King's Road - The All Japan Thread

Post by Joe Lanza » Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:33 am

Suwama gets a bad rap. I've always enjoyed him. I wouldn't put much stock in the last few months, coming back from a really hard injury to come back from (and coming back from it ahead of schedule).

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Re: King's Road - The All Japan Thread

Post by Irving » Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:34 pm

Joe Lanza wrote:Suwama gets a bad rap. I've always enjoyed him. I wouldn't put much stock in the last few months, coming back from a really hard injury to come back from (and coming back from it ahead of schedule).
Exactly. Also, it was imperative for Miyahara to beat Suwama at Sumo Hall. They needed to establish another main eventer and while everyone seems to have wanted an "obstacle" for Miyahara, All Japan doesn't really have time for that shit. Miyahara is now the obstacle. Jake and Nomura now have to catch him which will play out over the next few years. Miyahara's been chasing the big Suwama singles win since 2014. Miyahara chased Akiyama, Suwama, Go, Joe, and Akebono. Out of that list the majority of those main eventers are gone so to me, I understand why the result was booked the way it was. Time to move on.

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Re: King's Road - The All Japan Thread

Post by PKThree » Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:12 pm

It will be interesting to see what talent makes the move to All Japan in 2017, I've heard rumblings of a talent influx coming.
Koji Iwamoto is as good as confirmed, Sportiva (his home promotion) has already announced that he is moving onto All Japan full time as soon as he finishes up his dates with them, I expect Fuminori Abe to follow suit not long after. And Kento is apparently voiching for his old Voodoo Murders buddy Taishi Takizawa, who's worked spot appearance for All Japan when they have worked Chiba this year as well as the Royal Road tournament.

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Re: King's Road - The All Japan Thread

Post by Frank Olson » Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:39 am

Perspective on the Sumo Hall main event from someone who doesn't closely follow All Japan: I really liked it! They really did a great job creating a big fight atmosphere for the match. There were a lot of little presentation touches that don't sound like big deals on paper but that added to the feeling that this was a big, prestigious match. For example, while I have no strong feelings about Dory Funk Jr. either way (and have only seen a handful of his matches), having him on hand to give a speech as the “President of PWF” before the match really made it feel like I was about to watch something important. And having Kobashi put the belt on Miyahara at the end was definitely a cool moment too. Little stuff like that really goes a long way in the presentation of a big title match in my opinion. There are other recent All Japan matches that I've seen that had better in-ring action, such as the Miyahara/Akiyama match from last summer, but this one felt a lot more important because of the setting and presentation.

But I don't think the match was just a smoke and mirrors aesthetic success. I actually thought it was very good bell-to-bell. I could see how the pace might be a little slow for some people, especially during the early feeling out portion of the match, but I thought they did a great job of making everything feel like it counted, and they built to a really hot closing stretch (I'm a sucker for the “guys rapidly trade suplexes until they both collapse” trope in puro, and there was a particularly good example of that in this match). I'd never seen Suwama wrestle before, but I thought he was great as the big, ugly bully, which was a perfect contrast to Miyahara as the flashy young guy trying to prove himself. It was basically a battle between the old school and the new generation, which is a pretty basic story but the logical one to tell when you are trying to establish Miyahara as the new ace and star of the company.

This was also the first time I've really been convinced of Miyahara's star power and skill. In most of his other matches I've seen I've come away thinking “wow Jun Akiyama is still really great” or “I should check out more Kengo Mashimo matches,” but here he really felt like the star and an accomplished worker in his own right. So mission accomplished.

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Re: King's Road - The All Japan Thread

Post by kingpin26 » Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:54 pm

PKThree wrote:It will be interesting to see what talent makes the move to All Japan in 2017, I've heard rumblings of a talent influx coming.
Koji Iwamoto is as good as confirmed, Sportiva (his home promotion) has already announced that he is moving onto All Japan full time as soon as he finishes up his dates with them, I expect Fuminori Abe to follow suit not long after. And Kento is apparently voiching for his old Voodoo Murders buddy Taishi Takizawa, who's worked spot appearance for All Japan when they have worked Chiba this year as well as the Royal Road tournament.

If they add Fuminori Abe and Taishi Takizawa is this a sign that Akiyama is turning a better profit or is it a sign that they don't have a new trainees ready for the next year and they want some fresh young talent to liven up the shows.

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Re: King's Road - The All Japan Thread

Post by Danwaka » Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:26 pm

For anyone who was watching pre-Shiraishi, could you describe the guys like Manabu Soya, Seiya Sanada, KAI and Masayuki Kono? I know we all go gaga for Sanada and Joe shits on KAI till kingdom come, but how were they all back then?

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