Pro Wrestling NOAH (Discussion)

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ScorpioCorp
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Re: NOAH - Who is NOAH's savior??

Post by ScorpioCorp » Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:05 pm

Eddie Edwards, James Storm & Moose are coming to NOAH. Cool.

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Danwaka
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Re: NOAH - Who is NOAH's savior??

Post by Danwaka » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:49 pm

Keiji Mutoh is going to be participating at the March 12 show as Naomichi Marufuji's partner.

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pol
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Re: NOAH - Who is NOAH's savior??

Post by pol » Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:14 pm

625 fans in Korakuen today. They're definitely trying to build a buzz the best they can.

I thought only one Korakuen show in March meant they were cutting down, but they're running shows there on 4/14, 5/3 and 5/4...

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Re: NOAH - Who is NOAH's savior??

Post by gbogard » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:41 pm

Danwaka wrote:Keiji Mutoh is going to be participating at the March 12 show as Naomichi Marufuji's partner.
Nice, looks like Mutoh is gonna be more in the spotlight this year with this match and the DDT match a week after this. He didn't do too much higher profile stuff the last 2 years. I know he's old but still one of my favorites of all time.

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ScorpioCorp
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Re: NOAH - Who is NOAH's savior??

Post by ScorpioCorp » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:53 pm

Mutoh & the TNA guys. This March 12th show is shaping up as a must watch.

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Danwaka
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Re: NOAH - Who is NOAH's savior??

Post by Danwaka » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:25 pm

The big show in March last year drew less than 1,500 people in attendance, and was headlined by Takashi Sugiura vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima. The year prior in 2015 drew 6,300, and was headlined by Minoru Suzuki vs. Naomichi Marufuji. 2014 drew 6,000 on Nagata vs. Sugiura. Here's hoping they beat 2016, cus they have no chance of reaching the other two just yet.

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Jacob's Bawks
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Re: NOAH - Who is NOAH's savior??

Post by Jacob's Bawks » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:47 pm

Danwaka wrote:The big show in March last year drew less than 1,500 people in attendance, and was headlined by Takashi Sugiura vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima. The year prior in 2015 drew 6,300, and was headlined by Minoru Suzuki vs. Naomichi Marufuji. 2014 drew 6,000 on Nagata vs. Sugiura. Here's hoping they beat 2016, cus they have no chance of reaching the other two just yet.
Last time they ran this building, they did just under 2,200 on a card featuring Sugiura (c) vs. Nakajima, Shiozaki vs. Shibata, & Maru/Yano vs. Makabe/Honma. I don't think it'll beat that number, but 1,500 is definitely the number to beat.
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aivaz
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Re: NOAH - Who is NOAH's savior??

Post by aivaz » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:50 am

You can't really trust those numbers though. As with a lot of Japanese promotions in recent years, suddenly being honest about attendances makes it seem much worse than it really is. There is absolutely no chance 6,000 people were legit at Nagata vs. Sugiura.

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Jacob's Bawks
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Re: NOAH - Who is NOAH's savior??

Post by Jacob's Bawks » Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:44 am

A quick review of the 2/14 show!

1. HAYATA, YO-HEY, & Tadasuke vs. Taiji Ishimori, Hi69, & Rionne Fujiwara
  • An insane opener; pretty much balls to the wall for all ~7 minutes of it that aired. The two junior teams did great, but the few slower Fujiwara moments that made it in stood out amidst the craziness, and not really in a great way. He did fine by the end though. ***-***1/4
2. Akitoshi Saito vs. Mohammad Yone
  • They only aired the final minute and a half. The finishing stretch wasn't offensive and I guess had some good strikes, but I can't rate this. N/R
3. Battle Royale: HAYATA, YO-HEY, Akitoshi Saito, Mohammad Yone, Rionne Fujiwara, Tadasuke, Taiji Ishimori, Yoshinari Ogawa, Hi69, & Junta Miyawaki (Young lion)
  • Short, fun, what else is there to say? Just under six and a half minutes so it certainly didn't overstay its welcome. **
4. Atsushi Kotoge vs. Daisuke Harada
  • A fine brawl. They both took a bunch of punishment; Kotoge in particular. He's going to be dead by May. This didn't feel like either man's best performance. It lost me at a few points and they could have sped it up a little, but by the end it was all good. ***1/4
5. Kenoh vs. Hajime Ohara
  • Similar to the last one in a few ways; it was a fun and fast fight between two former partners, but this felt tighter with less wasted time. It was better paced, I thought. ***1/2
6. Naomichi Marufuji & Hitoshi Kumano vs. Takashi Sugiura & Kaito Kiyomiya
  • Could have been a stiff strikefest, but instead we got a fairly normal but really good tag match. Kaito ate a lot of punishment as expected, but this was also a good showcase for Kumano as he looked fairly good against both opponents. BigMaru did BigMaru things, but Sugiura was mostly just there to make Kumano look good and do a striking exchange with Maru. I expected this to be more stiff (and it was, don't get me wrong), but this was still really fine. ***1/2-***3/4
7. Go Shiozaki & Maybach Taniguchi vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima & Masa Kitamiya
  • FUCKING great! Shiozaki & Nakajima just tore each other up, and Maybach & Kitamiya did a great job themselves of keeping things hot when they were in the ring. Stellar all around! ****-****1/4
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EvilJason
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Re: NOAH - Who is NOAH's savior??

Post by EvilJason » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:14 pm

Really enjoyed the Kotoge/Harada match, worked with a real intensity and loved the definitive nature of the finish.

Main event was excellent too, thought Nakajima and Shiozaki worked the bulk of the match and their eventual title match should be a cracker.

Downside of course was the crowd size but it's still early days for NOAH the reborn.

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Re: NOAH - Who is NOAH's savior??

Post by Statoke » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:24 pm

EvilJason wrote:Really enjoyed the Kotoge/Harada match, worked with a real intensity and loved the definitive nature of the finish.

Main event was excellent too, thought Nakajima and Shiozaki worked the bulk of the match and their eventual title match should be a cracker.

Downside of course was the crowd size but it's still early days for NOAH the reborn.
Its a small crowd but they pretty loud so doesn't hurt the show too much.
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Re: NOAH - Who is NOAH's savior??

Post by PKThree » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:43 pm

Based off of the current crowds and a discussion I had with Cody Hall on twitter:

When do you guys think we will start seeing returns on the crowds?

For the sake of the discussion I am going to use All Japan as "the bar" here since they went through similar ordeals not that long ago.

Akiyama took control of All Japan in June of 2015 and started implementing his changes (roster, switching from the product into a new more classically inspired product, business, moving company stronghold, working relations with local promotions etc). And we started to see noticeable improvements in attendances roughly after the carnival, making it May. That's 11 months.

NOAH has currently been under new ownership since November 2016. It is now February, making them currently going on 3 months under the new bosses. They've also gone through some changes as seen in bringing in the new juniors (Yo-hei, Hayata, Tadasuke, HI69 etc) and the new offices. They don't seem to have any partnerships with smaller/local/indy promotions at the moment but instead they have the TNA relationship, which is much bigger. Especially if you buy the argument that NOAH's product is more westerner friendly than say AJPW or BJW.

On the flipside they do not seem to have done any changes to their touring schedule yet. Especially when it comes to how often they run Korakuen. Crowds are still weak but quite frankly we should not expect the crowds to have come back that fast.

How quickly do you see there being actual payoffs to the changes for NOAH, 9 months like All Japan, earlier than that, later than that?

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Re: NOAH - Who is NOAH's savior??

Post by DETROIT_KEJB » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:59 pm

PKThree wrote:Based off of the current crowds and a discussion I had with Cody Hall on twitter:

When do you guys think we will start seeing returns on the crowds?

For the sake of the discussion I am going to use All Japan as "the bar" here since they went through similar ordeals not that long ago.

Akiyama took control of All Japan in June of 2015 and started implementing his changes (roster, switching from the product into a new more classically inspired product, business, moving company stronghold, working relations with local promotions etc). And we started to see noticeable improvements in attendances roughly after the carnival, making it May. That's 11 months.

NOAH has currently been under new ownership since November 2016. It is now February, making them currently going on 3 months under the new bosses. They've also gone through some changes as seen in bringing in the new juniors (Yo-hei, Hayata, Tadasuke, HI69 etc) and the new offices. They don't seem to have any partnerships with smaller/local/indy promotions at the moment but instead they have the TNA relationship, which is much bigger. Especially if you buy the argument that NOAH's product is more westerner friendly than say AJPW or BJW.

On the flipside they do not seem to have done any changes to their touring schedule yet. Especially when it comes to how often they run Korakuen. Crowds are still weak but quite frankly we should not expect the crowds to have come back that fast.

How quickly do you see there being actual payoffs to the changes for NOAH, 9 months like All Japan, earlier than that, later than that?

I think its going to come down to them hitting on a big singles star like Miyahara. The Miyahara title reign combined with an influx of returning and new talent is what has AJPW rolling. I really like Nakajima but he doesn't have the presence that Miyahara has. The "ACE" narrative is a big deal in Japan and I don't think Noah has one right now. Everything plays off of the Ace. We see it in both AJPW and NJPW.

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aivaz
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Re: NOAH - Who is NOAH's savior??

Post by aivaz » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:08 pm

Akiyama took control in June 2014, no? So it's been a much longer road. The challenge Akiyama faced was/is deeper than it is for NOAH right now, I think.

I agree that they need a big singles star or something similar, it was the same with New Japan in 2012. Having a symbolic person or storyline that generates organic interest in the product and embodies resurgence is more important short-term than whether business actually improves or not. So long as the promotion has that symbol of positive growth and the crowds feel it, the real numbers will eventually follow.

I'm not sure, but often in these cases it feels like the solution is always under their nose. They already seem to be going in a positive direction.

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Re: NOAH - Who is NOAH's savior??

Post by DETROIT_KEJB » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:12 pm

Shiozaki is really the only one on the roster who would have potential to fill that role but even then, I don't know. That ship might have sailed but I think they are going to go down that road once again. Any of the young guys are at least 2-3 years away.

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