Dragon Gate (Discussion)

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BlizzardAcolyte
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by BlizzardAcolyte » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:02 pm

A few notes from watching Kobe World last night:
- really happy to see Okuda has landed on this new home for him, dude looks like he's fired up for making it here and I'm curious to see how his style meshes with everyone as he starts to move up the card
- was surprised with Kzy vs. Skywalker being the match that basically woke the crowd up for the night, and was up there for being the best match of the night--the match was placed in such a position on the card to facilitate this, and it's pretty clear that both are over as is, but it still caught me off guard. Happy to see my man Kzy get a showcase match though, and the way Shun repeatedly leaped into Kzy's strikes was great work on his part
- while I have been rooting for the Machines to ascend and run the trios division for a good while, the Triangle Gate match was not quite the crowning moment I had been hoping for. Then again, given who was involved, maybe I should have expected it...happy to see Machine J so pumped throughout, though
- cool touch for intermission
- was utterly shocked how hard everyone in THE PREMIUM worked, but then again, maybe I have underestimated how attached Ultimo's students (and Mochi) are still attached to him...I mean, even Horiguchi was working, and he was on commentary! With that said, Ultimo is about as washed up as the Flagship says he is at this point
- Ishida was ON POINT throughout the semi-final, I'm massively impressed with how much he has grown since I was last regularly watching DG (when he was still cape-era Over Generation). Also love how well Eita & Shimzu work together: while I still think Big Ben was a better team, it seems like these two enjoy teaming more and are pushing harder to truly gel. Didn't like the result, but maybe the champs can grow on me
- has PAC utilized R.E.D. interference at all in his title matches? From the way everyone has talked about them, it sounds like he beats everyone clean, but here the story was very much, "Ben-K gets some shine or gets the momentum back, PAC throws him--sometimes literally--into his seconds to give him the lead again"

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Ferrante207
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by Ferrante207 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:29 pm

I liked that the English booth was translating the hype packages as well. As someone who just parachutes in to DG for the big shows, this was super helpful. What did ya'll think of the English comm?

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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by InYourCase » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:18 am

I've been doing some thinking about where Kobe World 2019 stacks up as an all-time Dragon Gate show (if you haven't read my review, it's on the site by the time you're reading this). Compiled a quick list of my Top 10 DG shows (rated more so on quality than personal enjoyment):

1) Kobe World 2011
At least 48 hours after the show, I can't put this year's World show over 2011. 2011 is the height of Blood Warriors vs. J3 and features BxB Hulk vs. Mochizuki, Tozawa vs. Shingo, and a five star match between CIMA/Ricochet vs. PAC/DK. The shows are formatted in a similar way. Fun comedy early on, a lot of really good matches, and then a few at the end of the show that were out of this world good. It's close, but right now, I'm giving the edge to 2011.

2) Kobe World 2019
See the review on the site.

3) Kobe World 2005
World 2005 rocks. Another five star match with the best Blood Generation vs. Do FIXER match out there. Sasaki/Nakajima vs. Magnum/Tenryu is a bizarre match and it would fit in better on a NOAH show than a DG show, but it holds up very well. The opener is K-Ness/Arai/Yokosuka vs. Hulk/Shisa/Mori and that is probably the best opener in company history. If Mochizuki vs. TAKA was a better main event, this would probably be my #1.

4) Toryumon El Numero Uno 2003
El Numero Uno is the best Toryumon show out there. Everything worked in the best way possible. Genki Horiguchi is still living off of this night. His match with CIMA is a classic. Mochizuki vs. Milano was very good as well. I really love this show and prefer watching it start to finish when I have it on.

5) Kobe World 2015
World 2015 is the last night any of us believed in T-Hawk (in Dragon Gate). Main event with Yoshino rules, the YAMADoi vs. Sydal/Ricochet match is incredible, and Eita vs. Tozawa is the second match on the card and a MOTYC. There's also a Shingo/Masato Tanaka vs. Shimizu/Hulk match that I really enjoyed.

6) Summer Adventure Tag League - August 9, 2008
The Korakuen edition of the 2008 SATL was one of my intros to DG. This is the famous NO RING show. The ring broke in the opening match and instead of cancelling the show, DG taped the canvas to the floor and ran a full show that was full of utterly insane spots. The clipped version of Young Bucks vs. MochiFujii is mental and the Kong/YAMATO vs. SpeedMuscle main event is an all-timer. DG seems to have retired the no rope gimmick, so I wouldn't hold my breath on getting another no ring show, but I'd be all for it. This show is incredible.

7) Primal Gate - January 14, 2005
1/14/05 is one of the most important shows in company history. Blood Generation forms and has an excellent main event match with Do FIXER. The semi-main is Ryo Saito vs. Milano Collection in Milano's last big DG match. I watched this match recently and forgot how insanely good it was. The storytelling and the wrestling are off the charts on this show.

8) Dangerous Gate 2015
Dangerous Gate 2015 is another gem...God 2015 was a good year for the company. Insane Jimmyz vs. Mad Blankey disbands match, strong main event with Shingo and Yoshino, and that insane Triangle Gate match with CIMA/Fujii/Gamma against T-Hawk/Eita/a gearless Big R Shimizu. CIMA really beats the shit out of Shimizu in this one. Superb show top to bottom.

9) Toryumon/T2P Absolutemente 2002
Very few shows have ever felt bigger than the Toryumon vs. T2P show. The top two matches, a clash between ItaCon and Crazy Max and the famed Dragon Kid vs. Darkness Dragon match, put this show on the list. The undercard is super weird. Mochizuki wrestles Ultimo in a singles match that ends in referee stoppage and Disco Inferno is on the show for some God forsaken reason. Top heavy, but those two matches are so tremendous it has to be included.

10) Dead or Alive 2016
Had a few options for the 10th spot but landed on Dead or Alive 2016. I thought the undercard sprints were really unique and a very fun gimmick and it's the best cage match the company has ever had. Big T vs. DK/Eita is a very good Twin Gate match.

Are there any obvious omissions? I had to cut ties with some shows I love like King of Gate 5/9/14 and Gate of Destiny 2011.

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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by Angry216 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:10 am

I was thinking about this the other day. I always think about the first two August Korakuens from 2013. I group those two shows together. But it's the first two shows after the new generation takeover. First show has a cool six man tag featuring The newly We Are Team Veterans, a HOT Kotoka vs Mochi match, Doi vs Yoshino for the Brave and the infamous Akatsuki vs MAD BLANKEY Unit Disbands match. Second Korakuen had the crazy YAMATO title win plus the return of the Millennials

DEAD or ALIVE 2014 (and 2013) are underrated. 14 had the Flamita/Susumu match, the awesome YAMATO vs Ricochet Dream Gate match and the cage match where Hulk turns on MB. 13 had an AWESOME Yoshino/DK Brave Gate match in where I think turns Yoshino's career around (he has a great Dream Gate match against CIMA few months prior at Champion Gate), Uhaa and Hulk vs TakaYAMA and, in my opinion, a great Dream Gate match between CIMA and Tozawa.

Those were the first shows that came to mind. DANGEROUS GATE 2015 is definitely the craziest show I've ever seen.

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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by PrivateRadio87 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:15 am

Angry216 wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:10 am
I was thinking about this the other day. I always think about the first two August Korakuens from 2013. I group those two shows together. But it's the first two shows after the new generation takeover. First show has a cool six man tag featuring The newly We Are Team Veterans, a HOT Kotoka vs Mochi match, Doi vs Yoshino for the Brave and the infamous Akatsuki vs MAD BLANKEY Unit Disbands match. Second Korakuen had the crazy YAMATO title win plus the return of the Millennials
Funny you mention this. I haven't been able to find the 8/23/13 show with the YAMATO/Shingo match, but a week later in Kobe there's a show I weirdly love, with a random Susumu/Saito v. YamaHulk match, some good Millenials stuff and a really fun Twin Gate match with Doi/Ricochet defending against K-Ness and Dragon Kid.
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by PrivateRadio87 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:01 pm

Anyone watch these 8/17 and 8/18 shows? Some fun stuff worth checking out:

8/17-

Ben-K v. Punch, Kaito Ishida v. YAMATO: The Dangerous Gate main event opponents got singles matches. I adore Ben-K in tags but as a singles have only really been wowed by a couple matches this year (Kzy and Shun, off the top of my head). Now that he's champ it's always interesting to watch his development. Tominaga makes a great punching bag (not intended, but I'll take it) for him, and the match is quick and fun enough. I had HIGH hopes for Ishida and YAMATO because I think Ishida rips it almost every time out, but YAMATO takes it a little easy here. Opens with a ton of long, slow holds with the idea of taking Ishida's legs out. Still, the floor for a match between these two is pretty high and they don't fall below it.

MaxiMuM v. Mochizuki Dojo: That Mochi Dojo tag lineup is fantastic, and Jason Lee is always a treat to watch between SpeedMuscle interludes. If not for a drawn out, dragging beat down stretch on Hyo, I'd have told you to go out of your way to see this. As it stands, if you have the time you may as well watch it on your way to the next match.

Natural Vibes v. R.E.D.: Folks, we have a banger. Kzy is a monster in this match, the Eita/Big R team is on fire and YR BOI SUSUMU is here. I like watching Genki again while he's getting built up for the Twin Gate challenge, and Kanda does a german suplex. I point out the latter because it's always a fun surprise to watch him do anything that isn't atomic drop/eye rake or forearm strike.

8/18-

Kagetora v. Kota Minoura: Now that the fun Okuda/Watanabe angle is happening, Minoura's taking the top spot in the Mochi Dojo "I Don't Know Anything About You" Power Rankings. It's nice to see both him and Kagetora let loose in a fun, short singles match.

Ben-K/Shun v. Kaito Ishida/Naruki Doi: We have attained banger. Huge fan of everyone in this match. Ishida gets to KIIIIIIIICK, baby. The Ben-K/Shun team is super fun to watch; the two complement each other so well. There's a post match angle that made me miss iheartdg terribly because I had no clue whatsoever what was happening. Twitter clued me in: set up for a Shun/Ben-K v. SpeedMuscle match. Can't wait.

This one also has a pretty okay tag with Genki and Eita on opposite sides that has a fun ending. The intro tags with the Saito/Jimmy/Martin Kirby team are both fun but kinda samey. I think Jimmy is fantastic. Yosuke does some good comedy stuff in her matches if you dig that.

You know, sometimes I think I like Dragon Gate as much as I do because I don't speak the language. If someone delivers a shit promo I'm none the wiser. That said, is Ben-K being kind of overwhelmed on the mic part of the character? Like, because he didn't talk as a heel? It kind of feels like it when you watch him at the end of the Korakuen show this month getting shoved around by YAMATO, or when they face off during these shows. If not, well, it's interesting to watch.
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by Angry216 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:11 am

I said it on Twitter but Ishida/YAMATO was GREAT. Ishida has become one of my favorites this year. His striking (his kicks are lethal but I was surprised by how loud his chops were for some reason). When he gets to kick someone, it just sounds like a gun shot. I can't wait til him and Okuda brawl at DANGEROUS GATE.

Speaking of Okuda, his unfamiliarity with DG is honestly a positive for me. He just comes across as a guy who doesn't belong in the best way. He is such a wild striker and just increase the intensity in any match that he's in. That's something most currently on the roster can't bring but it's noticeably with him. Okuda in that six man with MaxiMuM was awesome. Doi messing with Okuda throughout the match and Okuda predictably responding by wanting to kill him was exactly what I wanted. The post match brawl with Ishida has me excited for Doi/Ishida Vs Okuda/Mochi.

I also mentioned the Ben-K stuff on twitter too. I don't understand Japanese but I can generally tell when someone's really confident cutting promos. Doi is a great example of someone who i don't know what he's saying but I know he's right at home and a natural when it comes to talking. Even Hyo seems comfortable talking. But yeah, with Ben, you can see him thinking about what to say and it's the only instance where he doesn't come off as cool. It's an interesting development and it's going to take some time for him to get used to it. I honestly hope he's a dude that doesn't talk much because his strengths is his physical charisma, the way he carries himself and how explosive he is offensively (his selling is great, too. But, in DG, being able to talk is really important and so he's going to need to become manageable at cutting promos, especially since he's going to be expected to close out shows and what not.

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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by PrivateRadio87 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:25 am

I think the conversation around the Dangerous Gate main event has been kinda interesting. I thought YAMATO and Ben-K put in a real King's Road-style match that stood out on a DG show in a way I ended up liking as the match went on. I think it really suits the whole longterm arc of Ben-K proving himself as the future of the company. He goes up against the heavy hitters, sometimes looks a little over his head, then wills himself through to a win. I felt the same way during the the YAMATO/Ben-K King of Gate match, which looking back kinda felt like an abbreviated version of this one.

The problem is, then the match KEPT going. I watched this match hungover in the back of a van, which likely helped keep me focused up to this point, and by the time Ben-K locked in his own sleeper (which I GET, but still thought was super unnecessary) I was begging the tablet screen for mercy. The finish was a little weird, but I felt that was more the fault of the sleeper spot than the timing of the Ben-K Bomb. Still, I think this model with tighter execution would suit Ben-K's strengths well. I went ***3/4 on it.

Totally loved Doi/Kaito v. Okuda/Mochi and the closing face-off between J and Hyo in the Triangle Gate match was ALMOST enough to make me like a Strong Machines match for the first time.
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Re: Dragon Gate (Discussion)

Post by PrivateRadio87 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:47 pm

Did anyone else think the Korakuen was kinda meh? I thought the zero match was a highlight because Jimmy teaming with Mochi Dojo guys is his biggest role yet, even if it was in a match that doesn't really count. Between this and his elimination in the battle royal at Gate of Origin, it looks like he's getting a mini-push and I welcome it.

The Jason Lee/Ishida v. Hyo/Okuda match was probably best on the show, which I say often about this Ishida/Hyo/Okuda feud. Their three-way next month should be fun.

I usually welcome the Ben-K squashes, but this one was a little too brief and empty for me to have any fun with it. The R.E.D. v. Saito/Shisa/Arai match was also a big nothing. Two crowd brawls, a long beat down on Saito and a goofy ending that may have been okay if anything else stuck.

The #1 Contender Battle Royal is also a big sloppy whatever - that is until the final two are left. I don't even want to say who they are in case maybe you're reading this but haven't watched yet. It's awesome, and it's enough to make the battle royal worth watching.

The Brave Gate match is also good, but every match in Susumu's Brave Gate run is good and this one doesn't touch the top of the list (especially if you count his KoG output). Maria's great when she pulls out the serious offense. Susumu looks lost whenever they go into one of her comedy spots.

The main is another Ultimo trios. If not for the finish I'd maybe rank it as my second favorite behind the Kobe World tag. Dragon Kid carries the match for his side, and watching DK against Yamato and DoiYoshi is nothing I'm going to complain about. It's interesting to me that Ultimo never gets in with Yoshino.

Anyway, not a lot of peaks here. Fairly weak for a Korakuen card. Awaiting Case's review to see if I'm alone on this one.
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Re: Dragon Gate (Discussion)

Post by Angry216 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:54 pm

Yeah this wasn't a hyped Korauken. I definitely felt that during the Brave Gate match. Towards the end I think they got into it but took it kinda hurt the match a bit. Everyone knows I'm a big Maria fan and while I thought she was somewhat sloppy, she continues to deliver when put in a big spot. I loved the "Rainmaker" esue Jumbo no Kachi spot where Susumu just drills her and she got turned inside out to where her foreheads lands on the mat. That was nuts.

Really like how they've seamlessly combined Okuda's story with Hyo and with Ishida together. I've really enjoyed all three of their performances lately and again, Okuda just adds a level of intensity and fierceness that not many bring current;y in the company. I'll say it again, whatever match he's in, the level of amonisty just increases. It reminds me of heel Doi but in a different way. Doi's antagonism can really rile up his opponents during his time in MB and Verserk. While Okuda, he just wants to pummel his opponent until they can't get up. He's like a raging bull and his interactions with someone like Ishida, who continues to really grow as a badass striker, is really fascinating.

The moment where Ultimo accepts the offer to join DG full time and Yoshino starts sobbing was awesome. Yoshino has a tendency of adding so much emotion to important moments. I remember when Shachi won his first title(the Triangle Gate in Sept 2012 with DoiYoshi), Yoshino was just babbling because Shachi had just joined WORLD-1 International at the time and they are best friends. He also did the same with the two of them won the Twin gate in 2015. He's underrated in that regard. I always raise YAMATO for his ability to emote but Yoshino can do it too and it always feels genuine.

All the way here for Mochi/Ben next month. Big match Mochi, in Korakuen. For the Dream. Some of my favorite Dream Gate matches ever come from Mochi in Korakuen; his challenge against YAMATO in May 2010, the Tozawa defense in October 2011, and the Yoshino challenge in January 2014. His last match with Ben last year was incredible and Ben's gotten better since then. I'm hyped.

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Re: Dragon Gate (Discussion)

Post by Angry216 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:49 pm

The Korakuen show from yesterday was awesome.

Ben Vs Mochi is a must watch. Might be a prisoner of the moment but I think this match was better than their match last and I LOVED that one. Mochi is almost 50 and he's still easily one of the best wrestlers in the world. This isn't groundbreaking by my god, when he's in a big match, he continues to deliver on an elite level. It's truly incredible. And Ben is just a beast. Dude keeps improving and has not looked out of pace as Ace of the company. One thing I think that helps is how his title matches are laid out. He's not the plucky babyface who barely squeaks out wins. In the match with YAMATO, he dominated throughout. YAMATO tried his best but Ben just destroyed him and put him away. In this match, same thing. Ben dominates Mochi and while Mochi fights as hard as he can, Ben is just too strong. This makes those squashes Ben has on random Sambo shows against Punch or the squash against Kanda from Korakuen last month have more value, personally. It's all about of the larger story that's being told; Ben is an unstoppable force who can't be stopped by anyone.

The turns were great. They've been teasing Hyo turning and I'm glad that they delivered. I've wanted one of the Mochi Dojo kids to turn as I've felt the heel unit has missed the "cocky youngster" guy they past few years. I think Hyo can produce in this role. He's improved a ton this year, he's a good talker and gaining more confidence in himself and this hopefully gives him a platform to grow.

As for Kanda, that was also teased. Future of Dragon gate on Twitter pointed out how he hadn't joined in on RED's attacks on Ultimo. The fire he showed post match was better than anything he's done since turning heel almost two years ago. Hopefully this means more inspired ring work from him, even though he's pretty beaten down by this point.

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