Dragon Gate (Discussion)

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Dragonzombie
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by Dragonzombie » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:39 pm

Glad Shingo is leaving.

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Rich Kraetsch
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:54 pm

If you're a Dragon Gate fan, regardless of your personal opinion of Shingo, you should not be glad.

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Danwaka
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by Danwaka » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:06 pm

Rich Kraetsch wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:43 pm
I meant Shingo leaving the UNIT not the fucking company. God damn.
Clearly Shingo shadows on the forum and heard your wish. Hope he comes back to AJPW for a bit. Maybe a tour or two with ZERO-1 to fight their very aging heavyweights.

Angry216
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by Angry216 » Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:07 pm

Definitely a loss. Takagi is one of the best and for a long time I was anti Takagi. Not that I hated him but felt even though he was a great wrestler, there was nothing else to him. The heel turn was everything that I ever wanted him to be and he's become the total package. Granted, in terms of popularity, he's actually not *that* popular with the native fanbase. But in ring, yeah, it's a huge blow.

In general they had to rely on Shun and Ben panning out because honestly, Eita and Big R are what they are this point. I like both but I think people gloss over the obvious flaws that they have. But with Takagi gone and Hulk mentioning on his blog that the end may be near for him too, it's just DoiYoshi and YAMATO left from the Big 6. So not ideal and it will not be the smoothest ride. But, Shun looks good. Ben has been great and keeps improving. If those guys hit, along with Kzy, and Eita and Big R contribute, it'll go a long way.

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Rottenrocker
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by Rottenrocker » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:14 pm

Shingo actually leaving DG is a big deal. Any promotion in Japan would kill to have an incredibly solid heavyweight talent like him on their roster.

Wouldn't mind seeing him in Zero 1/NOAH. Or becoming the newest member of L.I.J :)

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Starshine
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by Starshine » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:15 am

So ANTIAS is now RED. Simply RED... Wait no, that's confusing. So basically they still wear red, but now, I guess they're like double red, or something.

The name is an abbreviation for 'Real Extreme Diffusion.' So seems like they're going into that hardcore branch of molecular science we all know and love. To stick to that theme I'd like to see them gradually increase the distance between the members every time they come out as a team.

So now that it's no more, let's all look back and appreciate all the great moments and memories ANTIAS bought us:
- Like that time T-Hawk called the unit VerserK and subsequently embarrassed himself.
- Or that other time Shimizu called the unit MaxiMuM and subsequently embarrassed himself.
- Let's think back to when Masato Tanaka was in it for like... a week, maybe?
- The way they consistently awed the crowd into complete silence anytime they came out.
- We'll probably all miss the mystery of no one really being all that clear about what its name referred to.
- The all too brief Shigno Takagi/Ryo Saito and Dragon Kid/Eita feuds. I know some of you guys loved those ones.
- And finally, who could forget 2/3 of the guys the group was built around up and leaving Dragon Gate to hang out with CIMA in Shanghai. Clearly, their loss. They didn't know what they'd be missing out on.

All in all, to sum up Antias, it was a unit that... existed. They never really established a strong motif for the unit, so in addition to feeling like a stripped down VerserK for a chunk of its life, they also never inspired any sort of strong feeling one way or the other. They seemed to exist just because DG needs a heel unit. But was more problematic in this instance because instead of refreshing the landscape of DG, the change to ANTIAS felt stale from the outset which is a losing proposition for any new unit.

But hey, look on the bright side, they've got Sakamoto now. The guy Tensai used to beat up. What could possibly go wrong?
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Danwaka
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by Danwaka » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:58 am

Hey, Kazma's a hard working fellow. Maybe he'll surprise all you snooty Dragon Gate fans and-

Okay yeah, I can't defend that. They could have picked a scrub from Australia and I think Western fans would have been more excited.

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Rich Kraetsch
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:05 pm

Starshine wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:15 am
So ANTIAS is now RED. Simply RED... Wait no, that's confusing. So basically they still wear red, but now, I guess they're like double red, or something.

The name is an abbreviation for 'Real Extreme Diffusion.' So seems like they're going into that hardcore branch of molecular science we all know and love. To stick to that theme I'd like to see them gradually increase the distance between the members every time they come out as a team.

So now that it's no more, let's all look back and appreciate all the great moments and memories ANTIAS bought us:
- Like that time T-Hawk called the unit VerserK and subsequently embarrassed himself.
- Or that other time Shimizu called the unit MaxiMuM and subsequently embarrassed himself.
- Let's think back to when Masato Tanaka was in it for like... a week, maybe?
- The way they consistently awed the crowd into complete silence anytime they came out.
- We'll probably all miss the mystery of no one really being all that clear about what its name referred to.
- The all too brief Shigno Takagi/Ryo Saito and Dragon Kid/Eita feuds. I know some of you guys loved those ones.
- And finally, who could forget 2/3 of the guys the group was built around up and leaving Dragon Gate to hang out with CIMA in Shanghai. Clearly, their loss. They didn't know what they'd be missing out on.

All in all, to sum up Antias, it was a unit that... existed. They never really established a strong motif for the unit, so in addition to feeling like a stripped down VerserK for a chunk of its life, they also never inspired any sort of strong feeling one way or the other. They seemed to exist just because DG needs a heel unit. But was more problematic in this instance because instead of refreshing the landscape of DG, the change to ANTIAS felt stale from the outset which is a losing proposition for any new unit.

But hey, look on the bright side, they've got Sakamoto now. The guy Tensai used to beat up. What could possibly go wrong?
There were no doubt worse units in DG history but at least some of them offered something endearing if even they were laughable or fun bad or whatever. I can't muster up anything on Antias. As you said, they existed. They were a unit, in Dragon Gate. That's about as much as you can say for their legacy.

Angry216
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by Angry216 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:42 pm

Things are just really, really bad. Obviously not a shocking revelation but it's just not good.

A lot of things have gone wrong, I think, since 2015. But that's another story. Basically, through a lot of their own doing,people not panning out, personal drama, this is what you get. 2009 was pretty bad and that was my second year as a fan. But this is soooo much worse than that.

I honestly don't know what you can do. A complete unit reset, kinda like what STARDOM does with their units every year, was something Jae mentioned. That would't be terrible. Going back to two units just for the sake of going nine months with it and then splitting off from there(JIII Vs BW) isn't terrible I guess. But, what the fuck do you do? Kanda, Big T, they can go but then where do they even fit with the current units? And you can't do a Veteran Army anymore so people like Ryo just float around. Even then, you still got Eita and Big as your main talkers. Two who have historically been known to botch promos and while are talented in the ring, just don't really have it. Ben is a a beast and if he keeps improving, he'll be just fine but you would ideally want to be patient with it. But unfortunately, they need him to be really good now and historically, they push people too soon(Takagi, Doi, Yoshino, Milano, Millenials, Big R, Tominaga to an extent in 2012, etc), which is ironic, because the general consensus from some is that they don't push the young guys at all.

It's not good. It's just not good. Turning YAMATO or Doi or Yoshino wold be a waste. i think, for the first time ever, the unit system is outdated. At least right now it is. Maybe it wold be better if there were no units, which is crazy for a company famous and based off its units. But something drastic needs to happen.

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Starshine
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by Starshine » Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:02 am

Rich Kraetsch wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:05 pm
Starshine wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:15 am
So ANTIAS is now RED. Simply RED... Wait no, that's confusing. So basically they still wear red, but now, I guess they're like double red, or something.

The name is an abbreviation for 'Real Extreme Diffusion.' So seems like they're going into that hardcore branch of molecular science we all know and love. To stick to that theme I'd like to see them gradually increase the distance between the members every time they come out as a team.

So now that it's no more, let's all look back and appreciate all the great moments and memories ANTIAS bought us:
- Like that time T-Hawk called the unit VerserK and subsequently embarrassed himself.
- Or that other time Shimizu called the unit MaxiMuM and subsequently embarrassed himself.
- Let's think back to when Masato Tanaka was in it for like... a week, maybe?
- The way they consistently awed the crowd into complete silence anytime they came out.
- We'll probably all miss the mystery of no one really being all that clear about what its name referred to.
- The all too brief Shigno Takagi/Ryo Saito and Dragon Kid/Eita feuds. I know some of you guys loved those ones.
- And finally, who could forget 2/3 of the guys the group was built around up and leaving Dragon Gate to hang out with CIMA in Shanghai. Clearly, their loss. They didn't know what they'd be missing out on.

All in all, to sum up Antias, it was a unit that... existed. They never really established a strong motif for the unit, so in addition to feeling like a stripped down VerserK for a chunk of its life, they also never inspired any sort of strong feeling one way or the other. They seemed to exist just because DG needs a heel unit. But was more problematic in this instance because instead of refreshing the landscape of DG, the change to ANTIAS felt stale from the outset which is a losing proposition for any new unit.

But hey, look on the bright side, they've got Sakamoto now. The guy Tensai used to beat up. What could possibly go wrong?
There were no doubt worse units in DG history but at least some of them offered something endearing if even they were laughable or fun bad or whatever. I can't muster up anything on Antias. As you said, they existed. They were a unit, in Dragon Gate. That's about as much as you can say for their legacy.
Right, there was nothing to latch on to. They're one of the worst units just in the fact they were so one dimensional and bland. If you can get past that, they were a perfectly serviceable heel unit. But we also expect more from DG.

Here's a thought experiment, can you imagine if someone earnestly told you that ANTIAS was their favourite unit in Dragon Gate? I don't think I'd know how to process it. I'd just have so many questions.
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Empiresk
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by Empiresk » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:37 am

As much as a disappointment Kazma was, people aren't talking about this being a really good show.

Shingo vs KAI and the RED vs Vibes were sneaky good and the Twin and Dream Gate were excellent. Doi putting Yoshino in the Sol Naciente is one of my spots of the year so far.

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Danwaka
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by Danwaka » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:41 am

So apparently DG is bringing in another freelancer for RED? If so, my money is on TARU.

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rollup
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by rollup » Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:50 am

PAC is back in dragongate !

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Danwaka
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by Danwaka » Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:58 am

Should have gone with TARU.

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dancecab
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by dancecab » Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:44 pm

This instantly makes me more interested in Dragon Gate. Not going to lie, I halted re starting get back into Dragon Gate once I heard Shingo was leaving. But Pac returning, hopefully on more of a full time bases, reinvigorates the promotion for me.

I think they need to do something with Maximum and Tribe Vanguard right now. Either consolidate the two units into one, or take one and split people people. I would probabbly destroy Tribe Vanguard. Place BxB and Santa Maria into Natural Vibes and have Kagetora and YAMATO join Maximum.

I haven't watched anything since Dead OR Alive. Any major recommendations?

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