2016 G1 Climax

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GOTNW
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Re: 2016 G1 Climax

Post by GOTNW » Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:12 pm

Garuda wrote:So I'm trying to get a sense of what you think of Omega in summary. Here's my guess, and you tell me how close or far from the mark it is.

He's boring, he's uninspired, his act isn't groundbreaking, and the stuff he's been doing has been done long ago. These last two matches were great but he's undeserving of any significant praise after having only two great matches where he showed off elite-level work.

It's loud and clear that you disagree with me but I'd like to understand your total opinion on the guy.

EDIT: I still think you're misunderstanding my argument as having any interest in how "new" his stuff is, which means nothing to me. I get the sense you're saying that his stuff isn't significantly different from anything that people are doing now or that people have ben doing throughout wrestling. If that's true, I don't totally disagree, but again I"m not arguing that he's some transformational talent. And again, when I say he's challenging convention, read it as "riffing" off convention. I'm not saying he's tearing down the walls, just that he's trying to play against convention as opposed to playing within it.

I think our disagreement is just about whether he's significantly different from anyone else past or present. I feel he's got a really fresh and different thing going, but not that the elements of his act are brand-spanking-new or never before seen. If you don't feel simiraly then I think it's just a difference in taste, not some separation in philosophy that needs to be argued online.
I don't loathe Omega, I actually really enjoyed some of his stuff around when he was All Japan Junior/KO-D Openweight Champion and was hoping more experience would weed out some of his flaws like going into excess and whatnot. Having him do the Bullet Club stuff pretty much played to the aspects of his work I enjoyed the least and he became much less interesting to me then when he was doing too much. Don't think we have more to discuss here.

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Jacob's Bawks
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Re: 2016 G1 Climax

Post by Jacob's Bawks » Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:34 pm

I've been thinking back to the Briscoes/Page & Takahashi match and I feel really bad for everyone involved. If it was in front of an RoH crowd, I think it woulda been a better match because they know 3/4 of the guys and how to react to them. It was hellaciously physical, two guys bled and another got a black eye, but there was no energy from the crowd to feed off of. Especially after the segment it followed. I liked some of the spots and thought the action was good, even if it did go on a bit long. Page was kinda flat here but I still think he's a good worker with some good offense, it's just that sticking him with the laziest worker in the company and sending him to go out and die with 2 other strangers in front of 10,000 people was not a good move.
I dunno what I'm doing but come follow me on Twitter @Jacobs_Bawks

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Rainmaker_F7
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Re: 2016 G1 Climax

Post by Rainmaker_F7 » Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:58 pm

Jacob's Bawks wrote:I've been thinking back to the Briscoes/Page & Takahashi match and I feel really bad for everyone involved. If it was in front of an RoH crowd, I think it woulda been a better match because they know 3/4 of the guys and how to react to them. It was hellaciously physical, two guys bled and another got a black eye, but there was no energy from the crowd to feed off of. Especially after the segment it followed. I liked some of the spots and thought the action was good, even if it did go on a bit long. Page was kinda flat here but I still think he's a good worker with some good offense, it's just that sticking him with the laziest worker in the company and sending him to go out and die with 2 other strangers in front of 10,000 people was not a good move.
They were in such a bad spot. Unless it'd be Okada, Tanahashi or maybe the final, there was no way you could follow that crazy NOAH/NJPW angle. Also, fuck Yujiro Takahashi. This guy just sucks. He should be the guy taking the pins in prelim tags, not Juice or Finlay, who are working very hard on every show trying to make their opponents look good.

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heretic600
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Re: 2016 G1 Climax

Post by heretic600 » Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:24 pm

I'm probably late to the game, and have yet not watched the finals, so this is gonna seem a little old. On the last night of the B block, during Shibata vs Evil, Red Shoes didn't dq Evil for using the chair and proceeded to count out Shibata. I know dq's are at the referee's discretion and never happen in NJPW, but it made Red Shoes look biased. Didn't help that Shibata's shoulders weren't down he he counted the pin.

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Drew Wardlaw
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Re: 2016 G1 Climax

Post by Drew Wardlaw » Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:05 pm

heretic600 wrote:I'm probably late to the game, and have yet not watched the finals, so this is gonna seem a little old. On the last night of the B block, during Shibata vs Evil, Red Shoes didn't dq Evil for using the chair and proceeded to count out Shibata. I know dq's are at the referee's discretion and never happen in NJPW, but it made Red Shoes look biased. Didn't help that Shibata's shoulders weren't down he he counted the pin.
I've never heard an explanation of what exactly the rules are for New Japan, but it's a common complaint that guys use weapons in front of the refs and there's never a DQ. I'm wondering if this is a case of Japanese vs western audiences. It's not specific to New Japan either. I was re-watching Taue vs Kawada from 1/15/91 and there's blatant chair shots in that match, and countless other matches from at least 1990 through today from all different promotions. That leads me to believe there's just a different rule set, maybe the ref can't control what happens outside the ring, only between the ropes? I don't know, but I'd love to hear some insight about this.

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pol
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Re: 2016 G1 Climax

Post by pol » Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:11 pm

I don't believe there's a different rule set, but in practice anything outside the ring is fair game. The only thing that bothers me is the NJPW refs often don't even act like they care. Kyohei Wada always tried to act like he wanted them to stop.

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GOTNW
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Re: 2016 G1 Climax

Post by GOTNW » Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:35 pm

Ditch wrote an article about it years ago:
"Chairs: It’s not uncommon to see a chair used in a casual manner during a normal match in a normal fed, with no DQ. Why? Because the average Japanese chair is mostly lightweight plastic. They give a good ‘whack’ sound, but do no actual damage. Bad for fans of hardcore, good for long-term memory retention."

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wac
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Re: 2016 G1 Climax

Post by wac » Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:12 am

Heather wrote:
Grammarian wrote:Omega within a 24 hour period had two 5 star matches in my book.
I completely agree! I honestly cannot recall a single wrestler who has managed to accomplish back-to-back 5-star matches on consecutive nights.
Just incredible!
Benoit came pretty close that week in 2001 with the Benoit & Jericho vs. Austin & Triple H tag match on Raw followed by the TLC match on Smackdown.

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pol
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Re: 2016 G1 Climax

Post by pol » Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:31 am

GOTNW wrote:Ditch wrote an article about it years ago:
"Chairs: It’s not uncommon to see a chair used in a casual manner during a normal match in a normal fed, with no DQ. Why? Because the average Japanese chair is mostly lightweight plastic. They give a good ‘whack’ sound, but do no actual damage. Bad for fans of hardcore, good for long-term memory retention."
That's a goofy argument. They're clearly supposed to hurt...

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Drew Wardlaw
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Re: 2016 G1 Climax

Post by Drew Wardlaw » Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:59 am

Shaky logic there for sure, but at least that's an explanation.

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jesse
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Re: 2016 G1 Climax

Post by jesse » Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:09 am

benjaminkicks wrote:Been shipping these questions around reddit and twitter, and was wondering what you good people of the forums think about it:

If they go through with Omega/Okada at the Dome, does Okada need to win that match? Would eating a loss there hurt his status as a top guy? Does he need to be standing tall at the end of Wrestle Kingdom, simply because "he's the Ace"? Would losing to Omega there hurt Okada anymore than losing to Naito in that same spot? Because that's what every one assumed was happening before the G1, and I didn't see anyone have a problem with it.

Provided they do at least a solid job of building Omega between now and January, I don't see how a loss to Omega would be so much worse than a loss to Naito.

I don't see any point in Omega beating Okada. If anything you could say this saves face of having to run Okada/Naito at WK where I seriously doubt Okada would get the reactions New Japan wants for him. I don't think Okada should have beaten Naito either. This way you can give Okada a WK win as the champ and """""ace"""""" while keeping him the hell away from Naito in Tokyo.

Rocky said on English commentary that it's the discretion of the referee as to what is a DQ and what isn't.
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Heather
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Re: 2016 G1 Climax

Post by Heather » Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:59 pm

wac wrote:
Heather wrote:
Grammarian wrote:Omega within a 24 hour period had two 5 star matches in my book.
I completely agree! I honestly cannot recall a single wrestler who has managed to accomplish back-to-back 5-star matches on consecutive nights.
Just incredible!
Benoit came pretty close that week in 2001 with the Benoit & Jericho vs. Austin & Triple H tag match on Raw followed by the TLC match on Smackdown.
Ooh! I have to check that out on the Network! Thanks!

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Ferrante207
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Re: 2016 G1 Climax

Post by Ferrante207 » Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:34 pm

I LOVED the noah v njpw segment. Nothing gets me excited more in graps than a wild pull apart/gang warefare. I want Go/Shibs more than Nakajima/Shibs.

What's next for Goto?

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