Most Outstanding Wrester

User avatar
King Of Indy Style
Posts: 876
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:30 am
Contact:

Most Outstanding Wrester

Post by King Of Indy Style » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:58 am

Discuss here who you think deserves the Most Outstanding Wrestler award.
Image

User avatar
Rainmaker_F7
Posts: 370
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:47 am
Location: Warsaw, Poland

Re: Most Outstanding Wrester

Post by Rainmaker_F7 » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:14 pm

Ishikawa, Hero or Ospreay.

User avatar
mrjoshdude
Posts: 213
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:04 pm

Re: Most Outstanding Wrester

Post by mrjoshdude » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:06 pm

Chris Hero, and it isn't close.

User avatar
Rich Kraetsch
Site Admin
Posts: 2172
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:12 pm
Location: Wheaton, IL
Contact:

Re: Most Outstanding Wrester

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:41 pm

mrjoshdude wrote:Chris Hero, and it isn't close.
My vote as well. If you follow the American indie scene in particular, there's really no other choice. He's worked an insane schedule, bouncing between continents and delivering literally each and every time. I don't think I've seen a mediocre Chris Hero match all year. The guys work ethic is incredible and more than that, his ability to work within the style of his opponent deserves recognition. His BOLA performances alone show you the scope he has from one match working as a veteran bully to embracing lucha style rolls and moves. He's done it all against a wide array of opponents.

I can't fathom voting for anyone else this year.

User avatar
Jeff Hawkins
VOW Staff Member
Posts: 322
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:28 am

Re: Most Outstanding Wrester

Post by Jeff Hawkins » Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:48 pm

Hero and AJ are my top two

User avatar
IIDXias
Posts: 246
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:41 pm
Location: bronx
Contact:

Re: Most Outstanding Wrester

Post by IIDXias » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:17 am

Ishikawa, Omega, Eita are my top 3

User avatar
Garuda
Posts: 776
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:15 pm
Location: Chicago, IL
Contact:

Re: Most Outstanding Wrester

Post by Garuda » Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:45 am

Ospreay's a tougher sell now. His year has cooled off, if only in relation to how white-hot it was earlier. Hero has that full-year consistency that sells me on an Outstanding Wrestler. It's begs a kind of "longevity argument," just toned down to scope of one year.

It's tough to point to anyone else who slam dunks it like Hero in 2016. Even an Okada or a Styles has the disadvantage of having their matches rationed out to their respective company's main events.

User avatar
ChutiyaHogaTeraBaap
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:59 pm
Location: New Delhi,India
Contact:

Re: Most Outstanding Wrester

Post by ChutiyaHogaTeraBaap » Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:22 am

Rich Kraetsch wrote:
mrjoshdude wrote:Chris Hero, and it isn't close.
My vote as well. If you follow the American indie scene in particular, there's really no other choice. He's worked an insane schedule, bouncing between continents and delivering literally each and every time. I don't think I've seen a mediocre Chris Hero match all year. The guys work ethic is incredible and more than that, his ability to work within the style of his opponent deserves recognition. His BOLA performances alone show you the scope he has from one match working as a veteran bully to embracing lucha style rolls and moves. He's done it all against a wide array of opponents.

I can't fathom voting for anyone else this year.

Does Chris Hero have even close to as many MOTYC's as Ospreay? Ospreay has Scurrlx5, Sabrex4, Ricochetx3,Dunnex2 KUSHIDA, Taguchi, Fenix, Bailey, Hakins, Strickland, BOLA Night 2 Main Event, Mercury Rising Main Event, 16 carat Night 3 semi-main .. Thats 25 MOTYC's in one year(which is not even over yet)

His schedule is even more insane than Hero has he bounces between USA, Japan, England, Scottland, Ireland, Germany, Mexico, Taiwan, Singapore and even New Zealand. I challenge you to find a mediocre Ospreay match. Even the NJPW Multi-mans have some gr8 spots 'cuz of him and he is the MVP of those.

User avatar
mrjoshdude
Posts: 213
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:04 pm

Re: Most Outstanding Wrester

Post by mrjoshdude » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:56 pm

ChutiyaHogaTeraBaap wrote:
Rich Kraetsch wrote:
mrjoshdude wrote:Chris Hero, and it isn't close.
My vote as well. If you follow the American indie scene in particular, there's really no other choice. He's worked an insane schedule, bouncing between continents and delivering literally each and every time. I don't think I've seen a mediocre Chris Hero match all year. The guys work ethic is incredible and more than that, his ability to work within the style of his opponent deserves recognition. His BOLA performances alone show you the scope he has from one match working as a veteran bully to embracing lucha style rolls and moves. He's done it all against a wide array of opponents.

I can't fathom voting for anyone else this year.

Does Chris Hero have even close to as many MOTYC's as Ospreay? Ospreay has Scurrlx5, Sabrex4, Ricochetx3,Dunnex2 KUSHIDA, Taguchi, Fenix, Bailey, Hakins, Strickland, BOLA Night 2 Main Event, Mercury Rising Main Event, 16 carat Night 3 semi-main .. Thats 25 MOTYC's in one year(which is not even over yet)

His schedule is even more insane than Hero has he bounces between USA, Japan, England, Scottland, Ireland, Germany, Mexico, Taiwan, Singapore and even New Zealand. I challenge you to find a mediocre Ospreay match. Even the NJPW Multi-mans have some gr8 spots 'cuz of him and he is the MVP of those.
His match with Adam Cole at one of the Destruction shows recently was pretty mediocre. I think the main reason I wouldn't give my vote to Will is because he only really works one style of match, that style of match is fantastic and he changes things up slightly from time to time with the right people but mostly his matches can feel more like a showcase than an actual match. Hero's matches feel so much more organic and legitimate to me, I've seen him go 13 minutes in one of the sickest fights I've seen recently against Shibata and I've seen him go near 30 minutes in a technical masterclass against against ZSJ, I've even seen him pull out some lucha over in PWG at the BOLA shows. Chris is a genius in the way he works a completely different match suited perfectly to whoever he is wrestling, it never once feels like he's just doing his usual stuff. I would also say Ospreay hasn't had close to 25 MOTYC's this year, by my count he's got 7 (Scurll, Fenix, ZSJ, Ricochet, Taguchi, KUSHIDA, BOLA 6 Man) which is obviously still incredibly impressive but not 25 MOTYC's level. I think considering Will is a baffling 4 years into his career he's a shoe-in for this award somewhere down the line likely multiple times but this is Hero's year without a doubt for me.

It's important to remember what this award actually is, because in recent years it seems to have become the 'who's had the most match of the year contenders' award. You could have a guy win this award without a single match in the top 20 matches of the year. There's already an award for matches, this is about the individual guy irrespective of his opponent or the matches themselves. And in that respect I'd agree with your point that Ospreay is often the highlights of some of the NJPW multi-mans but I don't necessarily think being the highlight of the match and being outstanding are the same thing. He's often the highlight because of the impressive and innovative spots he performs but I wouldn't say it was because he was particularly outstanding as a pro wrestler. Honestly I think there's an argument that YOSHI-HASHI has had more outstanding performances in the NJPW multi-mans this year than Will.

User avatar
ChutiyaHogaTeraBaap
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:59 pm
Location: New Delhi,India
Contact:

Re: Most Outstanding Wrester

Post by ChutiyaHogaTeraBaap » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:12 pm

mrjoshdude wrote:
ChutiyaHogaTeraBaap wrote:
Rich Kraetsch wrote:
My vote as well. If you follow the American indie scene in particular, there's really no other choice. He's worked an insane schedule, bouncing between continents and delivering literally each and every time. I don't think I've seen a mediocre Chris Hero match all year. The guys work ethic is incredible and more than that, his ability to work within the style of his opponent deserves recognition. His BOLA performances alone show you the scope he has from one match working as a veteran bully to embracing lucha style rolls and moves. He's done it all against a wide array of opponents.

I can't fathom voting for anyone else this year.

Does Chris Hero have even close to as many MOTYC's as Ospreay? Ospreay has Scurrlx5, Sabrex4, Ricochetx3,Dunnex2 KUSHIDA, Taguchi, Fenix, Bailey, Hakins, Strickland, BOLA Night 2 Main Event, Mercury Rising Main Event, 16 carat Night 3 semi-main .. Thats 25 MOTYC's in one year(which is not even over yet)

His schedule is even more insane than Hero has he bounces between USA, Japan, England, Scottland, Ireland, Germany, Mexico, Taiwan, Singapore and even New Zealand. I challenge you to find a mediocre Ospreay match. Even the NJPW Multi-mans have some gr8 spots 'cuz of him and he is the MVP of those.
His match with Adam Cole at one of the Destruction shows recently was pretty mediocre. I think the main reason I wouldn't give my vote to Will is because he only really works one style of match, that style of match is fantastic and he changes things up slightly from time to time with the right people but mostly his matches can feel more like a showcase than an actual match. Hero's matches feel so much more organic and legitimate to me, I've seen him go 13 minutes in one of the sickest fights I've seen recently against Shibata and I've seen him go near 30 minutes in a technical masterclass against against ZSJ, I've even seen him pull out some lucha over in PWG at the BOLA shows. Chris is a genius in the way he works a completely different match suited perfectly to whoever he is wrestling, it never once feels like he's just doing his usual stuff. I would also say Ospreay hasn't had close to 25 MOTYC's this year, by my count he's got 7 (Scurll, Fenix, ZSJ, Ricochet, Taguchi, KUSHIDA, BOLA 6 Man) which is obviously still incredibly impressive but not 25 MOTYC's level. I think considering Will is a baffling 4 years into his career he's a shoe-in for this award somewhere down the line likely multiple times but this is Hero's year without a doubt for me.

It's important to remember what this award actually is, because in recent years it seems to have become the 'who's had the most match of the year contenders' award. You could have a guy win this award without a single match in the top 20 matches of the year. There's already an award for matches, this is about the individual guy irrespective of his opponent or the matches themselves. And in that respect I'd agree with your point that Ospreay is often the highlights of some of the NJPW multi-mans but I don't necessarily think being the highlight of the match and being outstanding are the same thing. He's often the highlight because of the impressive and innovative spots he performs but I wouldn't say it was because he was particularly outstanding as a pro wrestler. Honestly I think there's an argument that YOSHI-HASHI has had more outstanding performances in the NJPW multi-mans this year than Will.

This is where subjectivity comes in. The 25 MOTYC's were by my count. There may have been 17 by yours. Also,I thought the Adam Cole match was ****, while you thought it was mediocre.The very idea behind the Most Outstanding award is also extremely subjective as "Outstanding" could mean a litany of things depending upon a person's interpretation. In Film Awards, for example, some critics consider the quality of the films which an actor has acted in while others consider the individual performance of the actor in his films. For Most Outstanding, each year, I personally give utmost importance to Volume of ****1/2+ matches, since those are the matches that make me feel proud to be a fan of this art form; and by my count no wrestler has even close to as many said matches as Will Ospreay (BTW, Hero is 2nd). Therefore, in my opinion he is the Most Outstanding Wrestler of 2016.

User avatar
mrjoshdude
Posts: 213
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:04 pm

Re: Most Outstanding Wrester

Post by mrjoshdude » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:35 pm

ChutiyaHogaTeraBaap wrote: This is where subjectivity comes in. The 25 MOTYC's were by my count. There may have been 17 by yours. Also,I thought the Adam Cole match was ****, while you thought it was mediocre.The very idea behind the Most Outstanding award is also extremely subjective as "Outstanding" could mean a litany of things depending upon a person's interpretation. In Film Awards, for example, some critics consider the quality of the films which an actor has acted in while others consider the individual performance of the actor in his films. For Most Outstanding, each year, I personally give utmost importance to Volume of ****1/2+ matches, since those are the matches that make me feel proud to be a fan of this art form; and by my count no wrestler has even close to as many said matches as Will Ospreay (BTW, Hero is 2nd). Therefore, in my opinion he is the Most Outstanding Wrestler of 2016.
Yeah for sure, Ospreay isn't a bad pick by any means and I fully understand your criteria for giving him your vote. For me personally it's on that person's individual performance but I can understand looking at it from the point of view you do and from that point of view Ospreay is probably the number 1 pick. What's great about wrestling like any other art form is we can have these disagreements but all still loving wrestling at the end of the day.

User avatar
ShittyLittleBoots
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:12 pm

Re: Most Outstanding Wrester

Post by ShittyLittleBoots » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:20 pm

My top-5 is

1. Chris Hero (by far)
2. Zack Sabre, Jr.
3. Katsuyori Shibata
4. Matt Riddle
5. Trevor Lee

User avatar
phenom951
Posts: 153
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:59 pm
Location: SoCal
Contact:

Re: Most Outstanding Wrester

Post by phenom951 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:56 pm

Top 5 so far (behind Okada and Hero everyone else is a distant 3rd 4th and 5th):
1. Chris Hero
2. Kazuchika Okada
3. AJ Styles
4. The Young Bucks
5. KUSHIDA

User avatar
ChutiyaHogaTeraBaap
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:59 pm
Location: New Delhi,India
Contact:

Re: Most Outstanding Wrester

Post by ChutiyaHogaTeraBaap » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:14 am

mrjoshdude wrote:
ChutiyaHogaTeraBaap wrote: This is where subjectivity comes in. The 25 MOTYC's were by my count. There may have been 17 by yours. Also,I thought the Adam Cole match was ****, while you thought it was mediocre.The very idea behind the Most Outstanding award is also extremely subjective as "Outstanding" could mean a litany of things depending upon a person's interpretation. In Film Awards, for example, some critics consider the quality of the films which an actor has acted in while others consider the individual performance of the actor in his films. For Most Outstanding, each year, I personally give utmost importance to Volume of ****1/2+ matches, since those are the matches that make me feel proud to be a fan of this art form; and by my count no wrestler has even close to as many said matches as Will Ospreay (BTW, Hero is 2nd). Therefore, in my opinion he is the Most Outstanding Wrestler of 2016.
Yeah for sure, Ospreay isn't a bad pick by any means and I fully understand your criteria for giving him your vote. For me personally it's on that person's individual performance but I can understand looking at it from the point of view you do and from that point of view Ospreay is probably the number 1 pick. What's great about wrestling like any other art form is we can have these disagreements but all still loving wrestling at the end of the day.
Couldn't have said it an better.

User avatar
RobViper13
Posts: 384
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:37 am

Re: Most Outstanding Wrester

Post by RobViper13 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:12 am

For Mexico I can't think of a better candidate than Volador. Always delivers & can turn the most mundane match into something special just by himself as he's shown many times. Has a laundry list of excellent matches this year vs Casas, Caristico, Cavernario, Mephisto, UG, Ospreay, Liger, etc. to go along with his standout trios performances.
"Whoa is me" - BuzzSawyer

Post Reply