Best Technical Wrestler

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Alan4L
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Best Technical Wrestler

Post by Alan4L » Sat Dec 26, 2015 9:50 pm

Doesn't seem to be a thread for this. Zack will probably lock it up and may be on the verge of Danielson level dominance over this award. Thatcher is probably is closest challenger. They're my 1 & 2 and I'm thinking Jonathan Gresham for 3.

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BillThompson
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Re: Best Technical Wrestler

Post by BillThompson » Tue Dec 29, 2015 1:06 pm

I really don't see the case for Sabre. I like him, but so much of his technical grappling is exhibition based. He does sequences that he thinks look cool, and they do, but they lack progression or logical flow to them, which for me is a major part of being a "technical" wrestler. Virus, Thatcher, and Gulak are leagues above everyone else in this category, but they lack the frilly flash of Sabre so he'll be the popular choice.

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DylanZero
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Re: Best Technical Wrestler

Post by DylanZero » Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:33 pm

Hechicero and Blue Panther are still right up there with Virus and Thatcher for me, sadly they don't get enough chances to show it. Thatch 1, Virus 2, probably Gulak 3 for 2015. Zack's not THAT far off from Gulak imo but he's definitely the most "indy hybrid technical" of those guys than purely proficient. I do agree he's the most flashy (It's also actually Hechicero but still) and by far the most popular so I think he'll win.
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sivapc
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Re: Best Technical Wrestler

Post by sivapc » Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:30 pm

It's the same as last year's top3 for me. ZsJr, AJ Styles (match vs Okada at KOPW was really good and not flashy as their previous matches), Kyle O'Reilly

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DylanWaco
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Re: Best Technical Wrestler

Post by DylanWaco » Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:08 pm

I am not a huge fan of this award for a variety of reasons. That said, I might shoehorn Jimmy Rave or Fred Yehi into the three spot behind Virus and Thatcher as I think the way they use matwork in Southern indie feds is really impressive.

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Rich Kraetsch
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Re: Best Technical Wrestler

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:59 pm

This not being a style I enjoy all that much I struggle with coming up with a concise list of the best at it if that makes sense. I could give token votes to a few guys who probably ARE the best but it feels disingenuous so I may abstain this year.

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BillThompson
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Re: Best Technical Wrestler

Post by BillThompson » Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:19 pm

The Fray Movement wrote:I've seen Gulak do some damn good stuff with very green guys this, making them look very good in the process.
This is a narrative I wish more people would latch onto. I like Jonathan Gresham a lot, but the difference in what Gulak was able to get out of Matt Riddle versus what Gresham was able to get out of him is startling. Then there are matches like the George Gatton one where Gulak takes a guy who is beyond green in the ring and manages to get a good twenty minute match out of him. For a while this year Gulak was my #1 overall wrestler because of what he was getting out of lesser workers on a regular basis.

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Re: Best Technical Wrestler

Post by Jareddatdude » Tue Dec 29, 2015 7:28 pm

Zack Sabre is winning it again this year. Thatcher is a close second

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Lawsoncomedy
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Re: Best Technical Wrestler

Post by Lawsoncomedy » Wed Dec 30, 2015 4:14 am

Sabre's sequences do look cool. And whenever I've watched him they always have logical flow. I always pay attention so I can see exactly what he's going for. And there's showmanship to what he does. That's why he's the popular choice, and why he's the best. Because this is still pro wrestling, and that stuff matters.

Thatcher and Gulak for #2 and #3.

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Re: Best Technical Wrestler

Post by BillThompson » Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:30 am

Lawsoncomedy wrote:Sabre's sequences do look cool. And whenever I've watched him they always have logical flow. I always pay attention so I can see exactly what he's going for. And there's showmanship to what he does. That's why he's the popular choice, and why he's the best. Because this is still pro wrestling, and that stuff matters.
Showmanship is fine, but when you're too busy trying to get to your next set of cool moves that you don't want to properly put over the moves you're in, we have a problem. That's Sabre at his worst, and after a strong start to the year he steadily regressed when not in the ring with elite performers like Strong, Thatcher, Hero, etc. Left to his own devices Sabre is the guy who just wants to get his shit in and doesn't care what that means for his opponent.

Thing is, even at his absolute best I'd put Sabre well below Thatcher, Gulak, Gresham, Hechicero, Virus, Casas, Graves, Cobb, and even a guy like Jack Gallagher when it comes to grappling or technical wrestling. The skill is there for sure, but he's not world class like the rest of that grouping.

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Lawsoncomedy
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Re: Best Technical Wrestler

Post by Lawsoncomedy » Wed Dec 30, 2015 7:04 pm

I think part of it is, like Mr. Lanza I can sometimes fall out of love with the style. I really like Thatcher, but against certain people his matches bore me. Gulak bores me more than its probably popular to admit on any thread about technical wrestling. But, I've seen both men have some really great matches against the likes of Gargano, Hero and others.

Zack Sabre never bores me. His BOLA match with Scurrl went way too long, but it didn't bore me. I watched him do a lot of mat work in a very condensed period of time both at BOLA and in the SSS 16 Cup at Progress this year. Never got bored of it. I'm sure there are things Gulak and others do way better than Sabre, for example Thatcher's facials are better than not only Sabre but just about anybody in North America. But the guy hooks me into his matches. To me, that can't be overstated.

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BillThompson
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Re: Best Technical Wrestler

Post by BillThompson » Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:22 pm

I guess that's where we differ because of all the guys you listed I often find myself the most bored by Sabre. The Scurll BoLA match is a great example, as after about five minutes of the needless exhibition grappling from them I was bored out of my mind.

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Benno
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Re: Best Technical Wrestler

Post by Benno » Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:52 pm

Never sure which way to go on this award. If it's not strictly a style thing I could easily go AJ Styles or Tanahashi or somebody, but if it is a pure style thing, what exactly is that style, do mat based/grapplefuck/mountevans and faux MMA all fit the bill equally here?

For faux MMA I could see going Kyle O'Reilly as a guy who does it well and for grapplefuck there's a million options. I'd probabaly pick Jack Gallagher there as a guy who's been consistently great when I've seen him.

There needs to be better guidance for this and the brawling/flying awards.
Last edited by Benno on Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Best Technical Wrestler

Post by DylanZero » Sat Jan 02, 2016 2:14 am

Oh my God, O'Reilly winning would send me into a rage.
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