Most Overrated

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DanTheDazzler
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Re: Most Overrated

Post by DanTheDazzler » Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:08 am

Got to be Charlotte. No one comes close.

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rovert
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Re: Most Overrated

Post by rovert » Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:24 am

Rich Kraetsch wrote:The Big Show/Kane memorial award, I'm voting Kane once again. He spent FAR too long being a vocal part of WWE this year.
Wins and losses mean largely nothing in WWE but Kane did lose endless matches. He got endless hours of screen time but still his win loss record has to be a mitigating factor no?
Jeff Hawkins wrote:I know this gives me heat, but ZSJ
Explain.

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ceftaxias
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Re: Most Overrated

Post by ceftaxias » Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:50 am

Joe Lanza wrote:Has to be Reigns. A complete failure of a megastar push for the entire voting period.
What do you think about Rollins for this award? As a performer I think Reigns is better than him at basically everything (not that Reigns' in ring gets me going either) and I can't say that he was the channel changer that Rollins was to me this year.

But with that said I still have to give this one to near 50 year old Kane main eventing and being all over the show.

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Morten VH
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Re: Most Overrated

Post by Morten VH » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:03 am

So do you think Reigns would've been able to carry Sting to a better match, than what Rollins did?

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ceftaxias
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Re: Most Overrated

Post by ceftaxias » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:09 am

Didn't see the match. I don't think that makes him a better worker than Reigns week in week out either. In my opinion.

The subject of Reigns as a worker is going to be debated to death for another 20 years, where he'll just resonate with some people and won't for others. So we don't need this to turn into one.

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BossMoz
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Re: Most Overrated

Post by BossMoz » Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:09 am

The Roman thing is tricky to me, because I don't know if he was overpushed so much as the push itself was really poorly done. Feel kinda bad punishing the guy for it, it's a pretty insulting category to win in.

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Morten VH
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Re: Most Overrated

Post by Morten VH » Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:46 am

I feel Reigns would've been a perfect fit, for a good IC title run this year. He could've continued to develop, while having good matches with the quality midcard that WWE has.

Instead he was used as a main eventer all year. I'd call that overrated.

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Rich Kraetsch
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Re: Most Overrated

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Wed Dec 16, 2015 2:41 pm

rovert wrote:
Rich Kraetsch wrote:The Big Show/Kane memorial award, I'm voting Kane once again. He spent FAR too long being a vocal part of WWE this year.
Wins and losses mean largely nothing in WWE but Kane did lose endless matches. He got endless hours of screen time but still his win loss record has to be a mitigating factor no?
Yes and no. I don't recall the exact circumstances but looking over his year he has TV/PPV wins over Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose. While you could argue a push is correlative to wins but when you look at the opponents Kane had throughout the year, it's maddening how much of the upper card featured Kane throughout the year. Here's every opponent he faced this year on TV/PPV:

Daniel Bryan
Roman Reigns
Ryback
Randy Orton
Seth Rollins
John Cena
Dolph Ziggler
Dean Ambrose

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bigboys401
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Re: Most Overrated

Post by bigboys401 » Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:37 pm

Eva Marie

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wac
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Re: Most Overrated

Post by wac » Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:26 pm

How long was Eva Marie even "pushed" for? Her highest profile moment was losing a title match on NXT, it's not like she got the Roman Reigns treatment.

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DylanWaco
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Re: Most Overrated

Post by DylanWaco » Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:30 pm

Brock has the biggest contract in wrestling history and the promotion is the weakest its been since 2003ish. I'm not saying I'd vote for him here, but I think he's a better candidate for this "award" than he is for Thesz/Flair

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rovert
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Re: Most Overrated

Post by rovert » Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:16 pm

To Rich: Kane won last year so no matter what I say he's more than qualified to win.

On the topic of Reigns I feel the criteria needs to be reiterated:
MOST OVERRATED - The wrestler who gets the biggest push, despite lacking ring ability or charisma.
Reigns isn't lacking in ring ability. He's over and above the level you need to be to be a modern WWE main eventer. So I don't think he's a candidate at all.


Shera should be more talked about when it comes to this award but no one gives a fuck about TNA. But he's a horrendous Wrestler, likely the worst non-monster wrestler on US TV and his presence on TV was made all the worse as the India tour didn't happen.

Anyone who watches more Lucha than me have strong feelings about Thunder?

My picks:
1. Charlotte
2. ADR
3. Kane

My #1 has to be Charlotte. I've subtlety built the case for Charlotte all this year and before on social media. The booking of the Diva Revolution has been atrocious but did nothing on the mic or the ring to overcome it. Bad in ring performer, lacking a personality beyond Ric Flair's daughter, peaked/plateau'd very early in her career and is one of the worst examples of nepotism in Wrestling in a long time. Seems unfair to him to blame him for the dialogue he is being fed or the positions WWE Creative sleep walked into.

ADR gets the nod over Kane as Corporate Kane's acting and promos were really good at points.

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mlev76
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Re: Most Overrated

Post by mlev76 » Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:53 pm

By the awards definition, I think Reigns has to win. Charlotte is also up there and maybe I'm just bored with him, but I have Makabe rounding out my top three. Really sortof done with him.

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mlev76
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Re: Most Overrated

Post by mlev76 » Mon Dec 28, 2015 3:28 pm

The Fray Movement wrote:
rovert wrote:On the topic of Reigns I feel the criteria needs to be reiterated:
MOST OVERRATED - The wrestler who gets the biggest push, despite lacking ring ability or charisma.
Reigns isn't lacking in ring ability. He's over and above the level you need to be to be a modern WWE main eventer. So I don't think he's a candidate at all.
mlev76 wrote:By the awards definition, I think Reigns has to win.
Brother, mlev76.

Please give examples of Roman lacking the in-ring ability or the charisma that make him the sure winner of "Most Overpushed".

For what WWE looks for in a main eventer, he pretty much checks off everything on the list.

The award isn't about whether or not you care for the guy as a performer, but it is about whether his abilities match up to the level of his push. And he's shown throughout the year that he's more than capable. I know he isn't Daniel Bryan, and no, he's not at the superstar levels of The Rock or Steve Austin either. But for a WWE main eventer in 2015, he more than keeps up his end of the deal.

Meltzer star ratings:
With the Royal Rumble - 3.71
Without the Royal Rumble - 3.87
Singles Matches - 3.96

And that doesn't even take into account the highly acclaimed Fatal 4-Way match on Raw that made him number one contender in the first place.

At this point, anyone who can't admit unbiasedly that he has in-ring ability is still looking at him through American Dragon colored glasses. Yes, the company chose him. Yes, they literally had to pull out all the stops over a two night span to finally undo all the damage they did to him over the course of one year. But Roman Reigns can go just much as Kevin Owens or John Cena or any other top flight worker the company has right now.

He is not the "Most Overpushed" wrestler of 2015.
It's all about context, brother. He is being pushed as the next 'guy' and the judgment has to be from that perspective, he is over pushed. I won't argue in ring ability as I think he meets the level of work you need for that. He's right there in the mix there.

But from a charisma perspective, he's not. Maybe in the future but not today. And all this year he had been pushed above where he is. He is not at the level they think he is and they makes him overrated.

And I say this as someone who generally likes him, feels he's gotten a bit of an unfair rap from many and would be happy if he eventually gets to the level they think he's at now.

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ceftaxias
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Re: Most Overrated

Post by ceftaxias » Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:00 pm

I was being nice about it earlier but honestly I can't fathom voting Reigns most overrated when Rollins was the champion all year cutting those dreadful promos and being the top guy during let's face it the least interesting period of all time in WWE (okay that's subjective but either way it was pretty bad). That's not even factoring the argument that Reigns is a better worker than Seth which lots of people would agree with.

I don't care for the "but he's supposed to be the guy" thing either, I could see how that would fit into someone's case in certain scenarios but it doesn't here. Why not factor in the star making machine being absolute garbage that hasn't gotten anyone over in a decade in this case? Why are we blaming Roman for his supposed inability to get over when he wasn't booked to get over until after the voting period?

Reigns spent the majority year being a good to in some people's eyes great worker, and was cutting promos no worse than everyone else, especially Rollins. I've never disliked a character in wrestling more than I did Rollins in that period, meanwhile Reigns was actively good.

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