F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

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ODonnell
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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by ODonnell » Sat May 05, 2018 6:10 pm

How is it different than the Mania trips they run or going to a wedding that blocks off hotel rooms for their guests?

Todd got called out pretty quick by someone that sat with Todd in the F4W block at a Mania or UFC show years back, so it’s weird he has an issue with this. I started subscribing right as Todd was leaving, I’m guessing him and Bryan had a falling out?

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mlev76
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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by mlev76 » Sat May 05, 2018 6:21 pm

ODonnell wrote:How is it different than the Mania trips they run or going to a wedding that blocks off hotel rooms for their guests?

Todd got called out pretty quick by someone that sat with Todd in the F4W block at a Mania or UFC show years back, so it’s weird he has an issue with this. I started subscribing right as Todd was leaving, I’m guessing him and Bryan had a falling out?
Todd has always had a pretty "holier than thou" attitude and I'm sure there is some underlying bitterness from the split.

The two issues are 1) if the tickets F4W got were comps and they are turning around selling them for profit; and 2) even if they are paying for the tickets/returning those they don't sell to the overall pool, they are piggybacking off of selling tickets to sell Q&A tickets.

1 seems pretty unlikely since it would either be rather obnoxious on the seller side or a transparent attempt to puff up the attendance numbers by the Elite.

2 is a bit greyer of an area, but in the end, I don't see this being an issue since a) it's not clear these are especially great seats you won't be able to otherwise get and b) if you are the type who wants to sit with the F4W crew at the event, you very likely would be willing to go to the Q&A session anyway.

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mlev76
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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by mlev76 » Sat May 05, 2018 6:24 pm

As a follow up, Josh Nason of F4W said that they are not making money off the tickets and were not gifted the tickets.

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thecubsfan
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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by thecubsfan » Sun May 06, 2018 5:36 am

They're selling tickets to an event they plan on covering. They may not make a cent off them. They may be doing it simply to help out people who would want to sit together do just that - I'd bet every person who is buying an All In ticket thru them would've bought a ticket on their own if this wasn't an option, and it's not putting any extra money in anyone's pocket. But, still, they've put themselves into a business relationship with someone they cover and that's so obviously ethically messed up that it seems silly to even debate it.

The thing I take away from this is how little they must be concerned about criticism. There's of people who do not not think much of Dave's coverage of NJPW, of the Bullet Club guys, of "PWG style indies" in general among other issues. Any minor issue with how WON handled All In was going to be pounced on as confirmation of the belief Meltzer is in the tank for those things. This is not a minor thing, this is not an imagined slight, this is a real ethical lapse - and they were OK making it and are OK having made it even with the criticism. They're not really worried the people who already are looking for reasons to not like them, and they're not really worried about those people convincing others to stay away, or they would've been even slightly aware about how this would all look before doing it. This thread and the Twitter equivalents are useful as a venting outlet, but they appear to be useless a change mechanism.

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syxxpakk
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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by syxxpakk » Sun May 06, 2018 1:35 pm

There is nothing wrong with it.
"If I’m Neville or Aries, I definitely give a shit about the take of TJ “Career Trajectory Vanilla Midget” Perkins regarding my burning desire for advancement and steady income." - supersonic

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SuperplexlariatBW
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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by SuperplexlariatBW » Mon May 07, 2018 9:09 am

Meltzer and company can like whatever people and promotions they like and do what they can to assist them. They and their supporters should just not claim that they are impartial and that they have any credibility left. It's so obvious what their biases and alliances are. Just show some courage for once, admit the truth and stop playing up to this facade that your word is gospel and you have any legitimacy. Non-WWE promotions always have to rely on co-opting the wrestling media. I've seen it for over 20 years in following wrestling news. In the 90's ECW had all these shill sites and you had Bob Ryder running a news site while working for WCW and later on with TNA. New Japan, ROH and the All In crew have the same thing going on.

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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by TGD287 » Mon May 07, 2018 3:43 pm

The F4W section tickets really should be offered independent of the Q&A purchase. Sure, most would go to the Q&A, but then it comes across as using the no personal gain group ticket offer to prop up their for-profit Q&A.

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ODonnell
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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by ODonnell » Mon May 07, 2018 5:17 pm

Like if this was a show that would struggle to sell 200 tickets and they went in there with 80 tickets tied to the show, I'd agree. Or if they were given like 3,000 tickets and all of those tickets were tied to their Q &A that they're doing, yeah I'd agree too. Both scenarios have shows that a large portion of their tickets are getting sold by piggybacking off them, and vice versa. But we're talking at most like a 100 tickets in a 10,000 seat building. It's clearly being done for the subscribers to sit together, they're not making money off it, and All In will or won't be a success based on 100 obsese men sitting together.

If the only sold out tickets were the ones tied to All In, I guess I could see that while they're not making money off the All In tickets, it helped them move their own. But they sold out of all of their own as well, completely independant of the All In tickets.

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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by Joe Lanza » Mon May 07, 2018 11:05 pm

thecubsfan wrote:
The thing I take away from this is how little they must be concerned about criticism. There's of people who do not not think much of Dave's coverage of NJPW, of the Bullet Club guys, of "PWG style indies" in general among other issues. Any minor issue with how WON handled All In was going to be pounced on as confirmation of the belief Meltzer is in the tank for those things. This is not a minor thing, this is not an imagined slight, this is a real ethical lapse - and they were OK making it and are OK having made it even with the criticism. They're not really worried the people who already are looking for reasons to not like them, and they're not really worried about those people convincing others to stay away, or they would've been even slightly aware about how this would all look before doing it. This thread and the Twitter equivalents are useful as a venting outlet, but they appear to be useless a change mechanism.
This.

dave doesn't give a fuck what people think when it comes to stuff like this.

I do believe if the show stinks, he'll say it stinks. They probably shouldn't be selling tickets for the optics it brings (although I don't personally have an issue with it, I can see where some do), but this doesn't make me question dave in terms of his coverage at all.

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SuperplexlariatBW
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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by SuperplexlariatBW » Wed May 09, 2018 1:47 am

The writing has been on the wall for a long time when it comes to Dave's coverage. This recent situation also comes shortly after he appears on New Japan World after a show and he finds a way every week to come up with over the top WWE criticism. Shit that he wouldn't do with these other promotions. If New Japan did all the things WWE did with Saudi Arabia he would go light on them and make sure the controversy quickly gets swept under the rug. He's getting all stupid about Backlash, yet you never hear him talk about how much of a shit show ROH is.

He use to do great coverage work and provide great scoops. Now has morphed into Monday Night wars era Bob Ryder. Its quite sad.

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supersonic
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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by supersonic » Wed May 09, 2018 2:23 am

SuperplexlariatBW wrote:The writing has been on the wall for a long time when it comes to Dave's coverage. This recent situation also comes shortly after he appears on New Japan World after a show and he finds a way every week to come up with over the top WWE criticism. Shit that he wouldn't do with these other promotions. If New Japan did all the things WWE did with Saudi Arabia he would go light on them and make sure the controversy quickly gets swept under the rug. He's getting all stupid about Backlash, yet you never hear him talk about how much of a shit show ROH is.

He use to do great coverage work and provide great scoops. Now has morphed into Monday Night wars era Bob Ryder. Its quite sad.
And don't dare confront him this way like I did, or else he'll be a bitch and pull a power play to censor the critical thought.

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mlev76
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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by mlev76 » Wed May 09, 2018 4:43 pm

I started this thread almost three years ago and in that time, my usage and enjoyment of the Observer sight has diminished exponentially. It's not one thing and there are certainly things that still are great-Dave's bios and other historical pieces. But, nothing with regard to the promotions I mainly follow seems all that new by the time I read it and the audio really doesn't do it for me. I still would love to more Dave/Sempervive shows, but each of them with Bryan is a non-starter.

After eight years, I pulled the plug today and subscribed to the Torch just to hear Alan's stuff. Knew I'd do the latter but the former was up in the air. I guess after all this time, my answer to my original question is no.


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Joe Lanza
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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by Joe Lanza » Sat May 12, 2018 4:38 am

Genuinely don't understand what the fuss is about. They've done this for WWE & UFC shows for years. If you also have a problem with that, then that's being consistent and you're being fair.

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thecubsfan
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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by thecubsfan » Sat May 12, 2018 2:55 pm

My understanding had been that it wasn't "WON/'F4W" doing these group ticket sales deals, but people on their message board doing the organizing and purchasing. It'd sometimes be someone who considered themselves close to Dave & Bryan, like Ed in San Antonio, and the people working for the site were just purchasing tickets like anyone else, not running the thing. This seems like they're more directly involving themselves in the process than before. If they were selling tickets themselves all along and I didn't understand that, then I would've had a problem with that all along (but it'd still be a Bad Look to do it start doing it more publicly in time for All In.)

As a site selling the best analysis of the news, it's not a great idea. As a site selling a community and a seat at the cool kid's table, it's a tremendous idea. I think the latter is more of what they're selling nowadays.

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