F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

WWE, TNA, and all U.S./Canada based graps talk
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rovert
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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by rovert » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:28 pm

rovert wrote: WWE has WWE resources but I haven't seen any sustained effort by Bryan to make good on the issues with the site this year. Just changes that last two weeks that are dropped with no explanation. Heaven forbid his site gets in the way of After Dark or his Jitz school though.
See: Time stamps

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ceftaxias
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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by ceftaxias » Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:16 am

If you bring up timestamps your post will get deleted. Such a strange year for their website.

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Tim Cooke
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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by Tim Cooke » Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:54 am

The WON will always have value and be worth subscribing to if just for the back issue library. I'm a big fan of well done design and user interfaces but if I held the WON to the standard of national magazines, I would never subscribe to any wrestling publication.

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cbacon87
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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by cbacon87 » Fri Oct 30, 2015 5:25 pm

I've not subbed in a while and generally, I only re-sub to grab the DKPs and BANs. I don't think I was ever a regular Observer reader and it was mostly the audio and Board I was subbing for. The Board doesn't need much explanation and with the audio, I don't know as it's so much Bryan and Dave do a bad job, so much as I'm not into hearing them complain about stuff, even if it's warranted. I forget which PPV it first was where the review just drained me but I want to say one of the Bragging Rights shows. The reviews of older shows tend to be more jovial and thus more fun to listen to. But that's more of a personal thing.

On a bigger picture note, things do give off the vibe of coasting, at least from the outside. People joke about the B&V shows having the same drops as 2007, but it's not completely inaccurate. I've compared Bryan to Vince (McMahon, that is) before, mostly in an "isn't it ironic some of the things Bryan complains about kind of way", but I do think there's something to it. Beyond some of his reactions to criticism which are amusing in that sense, I don't think it's a matter of Bryan not caring about the site or not wanting to put out a good product, but it does seem like he abandons ideas really quickly and reverts to type. And the lack of wrestling he's watching does seem like a problem. I get that there's plenty of subscribers, maybe the majority, who only care about WWE and UFC and I know Bryan's been boycotting Smackdown on and off for 7-8 years because WHO could POSSIBLY care, but it does feel more stark now, at least looking in from the inside. So I can understand why other people are questioning the content now as well.

It does feel like a fresh take is needed.

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MOJO
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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by MOJO » Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:34 pm

God, I can't even believe Dave printed that story about Del Rio's contract. If common sense doesn't tell you there's no way that's true, I have no idea what to say to you.

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Morten VH
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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by Morten VH » Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:36 pm

Did he report it as fact or rumor?

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rovert
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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by rovert » Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:16 am

Morten VH wrote:Did he report it as fact or rumor?
Fact and per multiple sources - likely Court Bauer and Konnan as they pushed the narrative that ADR signed for big money all week.

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JFC3400
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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by JFC3400 » Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:25 am

STOP LYING DAVE!

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Joe Lanza
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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by Joe Lanza » Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:37 am

dave's sources were worked too, from what I'm told. Not a case where sources worked dave, in the case anyone is confused. Many people in this situation were worked. ADR was the root of all of it, presumably for leverage reasons (my personal speculation), and then disappeared and turned his phone off when the people he mislead came for his head.

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LesMoore
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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by LesMoore » Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:19 am

Sources being worked actually makes Dave look worse here, IMO. "Triple sourcing" a story like this, and using three sources who got their info from Del Rio is inexcusable and unprofessional. If he couldn't get it from someone at least tertiarily related to the company, he shouldn't have reported a number. He's been doing this too long to run with hearsay from three guys Del Rio told what he was making.

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Joe Lanza
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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by Joe Lanza » Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:28 am

LesMoore wrote:Sources being worked actually makes Dave look worse here, IMO. "Triple sourcing" a story like this, and using three sources who got their info from Del Rio is inexcusable and unprofessional. If he couldn't get it from someone at least tertiarily related to the company, he shouldn't have reported a number. He's been doing this too long to run with hearsay from three guys Del Rio told what he was making.

He ultimately got it wrong, and then owned it. Nobody gets everything right. I have some sympathy for him here. ADR worked A LOT of people here, including other promotions aside from AAA according to my source, who BETTER NOT BE WORKING ME OMG AM I BEING WORKED?

But seriously, dave, his sources (whoever they were, as he publicly said Konnan wasn't one of them) and many others were duped. He got it wrong. He was contrite about it. I'm sure he feels like shit.

Not trying to compare myself to dave by any means, but we've broken a few stories on this site, many double sourced from rock solid people, and myself & Rich are always like "should we run this?" because a lot of times it just isn't worth it on the off chance you're wrong. I have no idea how people like dave & Johnson deal with that on a daily basis.

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Wiretaup
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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by Wiretaup » Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:34 am

This seems like a pretty big one though. I don't want to pretend I have a real idea of what the average WWE guy is making, but 1.45 million for a guy they already squandered should have raised every flag, alarm, and nuclear launch code in Dave's head. Triple sourcing with guys close to Del Rio shouldn't have cut it here.

Plus, there was no real need to rush to the presses with how much ADR was making.

I'll give him credit for owning it though.

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LesMoore
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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by LesMoore » Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:39 am

I hear what you're saying, and I know he was contrite. But someone with a degree in journalism, doing this professionally for so many years, claiming "triple sourced" story that really amounts to circular reporting, and false confirmation from people del rio told, is a bad, bad look. The story being wrong is embarrassing, sure. The practice that led to it being obtained, if true, is amateurish and would get someone fired at any of the papers or mags I've worked at in the past. Triple sources have to be independent, otherwise you're not triple sourcing. That's just basic journalism 101.

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rovert
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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by rovert » Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:07 pm

LesMoore raises valid points but at least I know Dave feels bad about the situation and offered his contrition. Bryan never does this with his messages from WWE that nearly always turn out to be false. The ones that are normally the vague ones - "Raw is expected to be boring".

Really regret recommending F4W to people. Everyone I've done that with this year has come back to me asking dozens of questions on how the place operates or they just quit after a month. The forum is the worst. The strange moderation choices are actually more annoying than it being left being a cesspool. I swear I just got a DM this morning from someone in NXT REALLY angry at there being a 8 page anti-Izzy thread and another creepy one about Bayley on the F4W forum. Will probably cost Meltzer a source of sorts but posts about time stamps are the administrators/moderators focus.

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LesMoore
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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by LesMoore » Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:32 pm

The other thing I'm watching for here is how this gets handled in the next newsletter and podcast. I'm skeptical of contrition on the Board, given we're constantly made aware of how only a fraction of the site's membership have anything to do with the Board. So, apologies, and contrite mea culpas there don't really make up for the big lede hook in the main story of the newsletter being completely wrong.

Even the piece in the daily update deflected a bit with the whole "well, he COULD make that much" bit.

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