Evolve (WWNLive)

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mlev76
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Re: Evolve (WWNLive)

Post by mlev76 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 4:46 pm

supersonic wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 4:37 pm
WWE has previously given PROGRESS the go ahead to show their matches with Ohno and Riddle (which weren't streamed, but still), so this is the only decent thing to do. It also makes me think that WWN is going to rely a lot more on WWE non-main roster talent to keep ticket sales and VOD purchases up while they determine the future of the company.

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SuperplexlariatBW
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Re: Evolve (WWNLive)

Post by SuperplexlariatBW » Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:00 pm

I know there's been this discussion about the effects of Evolve relying on WWE names and how it makes their regulars look minor league. I don't think it really matters since Evolve are booking talent from their indie style brands rather than the main roster. It's not like Evolve is booking people like Strowman, Orton or New Day. They're mainly booking people with indie backgrounds who have yet to bevome official Raw or Smackdown roster members. Plus, a guy like Ohno has a history there.

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mlev76
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Re: Evolve (WWNLive)

Post by mlev76 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:59 pm

As a short term fix, it's certainly not a bad financial decision. But, the more they book WWE guys, the less room they have to build up new talent for the future. This year has been especially odd with this regard in that the only non-established new talent they've really pushed has been Josh Briggs. Everyone else on the core roster are people who've been around at least since 2017 if not longer and even those numbers are dwindling. Having guys like Walter and Thatcher part time doesn't help the larger problem nor does using talent on regionally specific shows (think DJZ and Myron Reed).

The "What is Evolve?" tagline is cute, but also telling. Because I can't really say what it is anymore beyond a WWE feeder system/place for non main roster guys to get additional work.

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SuperplexlariatBW
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Re: Evolve (WWNLive)

Post by SuperplexlariatBW » Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:03 pm

So they went full force last night with making Evolve into a WWE feeder system with Fabian Aichner winning the Evolve title, The Street Prophets winning the tag titles and other appearances by lower level NXT talents. I would imagine with these changes comes more departures like Strickland since he's contracted to MLW.

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Re: Evolve (WWNLive)

Post by FilipPejic » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:45 pm

I can kinda understand why Street profits won cause they are an over act in nxt and I can see them being tag champs. Aichner is a good wrestler but he is guy right that now should not be winning evolve title especially since Strickland was starting to develop a good run as champ. I’m guessing cause Strickland is signed with MLW wwe wanted the title off him
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mezomi
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Re: Evolve (WWNLive)

Post by mezomi » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:20 pm

FilipPejic wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:45 pm
I can kinda understand why Street profits won cause they are an over act in nxt and I can see them being tag champs. Aichner is a good wrestler but he is guy right that now should not be winning evolve title especially since Strickland was starting to develop a good run as champ. I’m guessing cause Strickland is signed with MLW wwe wanted the title off him
I agree with this. Considering the deal they have, I don't think it's wrong that Evolve is pushing NXT talent over their own talents. They allegedly, will have consistent access to these talents, so they have time to build stories around them and develop their skills. But putting the title on Fabian Aichner was unnecessary. He's a guy that isn't established enough to win a major title like this, nor is he charismatic enough to get away with it. If they wanted to hotshot a NXT guy to their world title who isn't getting used, Dijack would have been a perfect choice. Then again, he probably doesn't need the extra seasoning.

I don't hate Aichner, and I am exited to see what he does with this opportunity, though, this was an embarrassing move for the company as a whole. Of course, with WWE backing them, the booking and the state of the company is mostly irrelevant. I think this will make for some fun shows at least. I've always wanted to see Largo loop shows, and shows like that seems to be Evolve's current trajectory.

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Re: Evolve (WWNLive)

Post by Kirk D » Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:25 pm

In the end it is a change of business model. From a feeder system that was the last station for indie stars before they move to the performance center it is now a waiting line, where the performance center and NXT can send performers who they do not yet deem ready for bigger purpose. So from hot and fresh they move to second hand performers. Progress, wXw, be aware of what happened with Evolve!

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Re: Evolve (WWNLive)

Post by SuperplexlariatBW » Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:21 pm

Not saying this would work, but I can also see there being this mentality that sending these lower NXT names to Evolve will help them by giving them more indie cred.

Overall, not sure what else Evolve can do at this point since whatever they were doing before was clearly not working based off their attendance. It's either run with this idea or try the super indie model that is already being done by a zillion other promotions.

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Re: Evolve (WWNLive)

Post by mlev76 » Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:09 am

Some general thoughts on 114:

-Though I don't share the sentiment, I understand why many were turned off by such a large influx of NXT talent. The show really did feel in many ways like a coopted NXT show with the old Evolve roster in a much more limited role.

-I think starting this changeover with wrestlers who haven't really been on TV or, if they have, have been unpushed was a mistake. It would also help if the talents they brought in wrestled at the level we expect from Evolve. On the undercard, they definitely didn't.

-The Leon Ruff/Barrett Brown match was the best thing on the undercard and a good sign that they aren't completely outsourcing their roster building to NXT. Both guys looked good and Ruff is probably their top prospect going into 2019.

-The two title changes were both very good matches, but they felt very different. The tag title change felt in some ways like the title loss to the Work Horsemen last year and they did at least a cursory build to prepare for such a change. But, the Evolve title change really came out of nowhere and Aichner (who I'm a fan of) really had no business challenging for the title. Not sure the political reasons for getting the title off Strickland, but they should have at least put it on an existing roster guy. My read from the crowd reaction was the crowd was not happy about this title switch.

-The ladder match was too long and overbloated. They also had crowd brawling in an unlit area for a good portion of the early match which is never not annoying. Drake as the new champion is a great pick as I was hoping for him or Henry to win. He's had a very good 2018 in Evolve and this was well earned.

Overall, it was a weird show with some good wrestling up top and some questionable choices on the rest of the show. Going forward, I imagine the NXT participation will be less jarring and the quality of imports will likely be better. I believe they have Ohno, Ali and the new champions for next weekend's double shot,so there is a clear upgrade there.

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Re: Evolve (WWNLive)

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:47 pm

It'll be very difficult for some (myself included) to adjust to the fact that you are now officially watching a WWE minor league team as opposed to an independent wrestling alternative. Over time, that will likely be easier to stomach and will probably result in a business uptick so it makes all the sense in the world... it's just different and ultimately difficult to reconcile right now.

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Re: Evolve (WWNLive)

Post by mlev76 » Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:06 pm

Rich Kraetsch wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:47 pm
It'll be very difficult for some (myself included) to adjust to the fact that you are now officially watching a WWE minor league team as opposed to an independent wrestling alternative. Over time, that will likely be easier to stomach and will probably result in a business uptick so it makes all the sense in the world... it's just different and ultimately difficult to reconcile right now.
One thing I didn't even mention was listening to Lenny Leonard talk about NXT, the Performance Center and such with as much frequency as he did. It was very jarring.

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Re: Evolve (WWNLive)

Post by BlizzardAcolyte » Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:08 pm

mlev76 wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:09 am
-The Leon Ruff/Barrett Brown match was the best thing on the undercard and a good sign that they aren't completely outsourcing their roster building to NXT. Both guys looked good and Ruff is probably their top prospect going into 2019.
This part of the situation is probably what gets the most response out of me--it's clear that The Skulk as a whole are in an excellent position right now, raw-talented enough to have potential and be refined through NXT proper in the future, but not so tied down to the system that they're unable to go elsewhere and hone their craft under different settings. I suspect they're perfectly happy staying put as EVOLVE regulars and having that door to NXT open, and I'm happy for them...but damn does it hurt me that, most likely, we're never gonna see any of them have a run anywhere outside of the WWE Umbrella, even for just a year. A.R. Fox pulling a CIMA and making the Skulk his BraveHearts, just causing a ruckus in the super-indies for a while--even outside the U.S., if possible--would have been a hell of a ride to have been along for.

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Re: Evolve (WWNLive)

Post by cbacon87 » Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:54 pm

mlev76 wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:09 am
-I think starting this changeover with wrestlers who haven't really been on TV or, if they have, have been unpushed was a mistake. It would also help if the talents they brought in wrestled at the level we expect from Evolve. On the undercard, they definitely didn't.
See, maybe it's just me, but that would have been less interesting to me. If it's just Ohno showing up to have matches for the sake of matches to keep EVOLVE afloat, what's the point big picture? In theory, guys like Jaoude and Bononi can actually do something and build themselves up in the same way any non-signed EVOLVE guy would. If it's just people like TM61 doing showcase matches or Velveteen Dream doing cameos, I'm not sure what that really accomplishes, besides keeping people busy and sustaining EVOLVE artificially.
BlizzardAcolyte wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:08 pm
This part of the situation is probably what gets the most response out of me--it's clear that The Skulk as a whole are in an excellent position right now, raw-talented enough to have potential and be refined through NXT proper in the future, but not so tied down to the system that they're unable to go elsewhere and hone their craft under different settings.
EVOLVE have been tying people down for years though, that sort of thing would happen with or without WWE factors surely? Plus, there's plenty of people who get booked by PROGRESS and still get to do their own thing (within reason) too, so we'll see if they still can do other stuff.

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Re: Evolve (WWNLive)

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:30 pm

We were told after some people listened to this week's flagship that everyone from NXT in EVOLVE now is there by choice and that they do not see it a demotion of any kind but rather something exciting. So that definitely changes my scope on it. I'm with you cbacon in that, yeah, it's cool to see Ohno back in the mix, but that's ultimately hollow and meaningless. It just sells a few additional tickets. If this is going to be the minor leagues, you would rather see real development happen with the raw pieces like, say, a Jessie or whatever.

I expect a weird blend of weekend specials with Ohno, Ali, etc. and the raw parts. The real interesting pocket is like you guys were mentioning those not signed to WWE. Do they slowly just filter out? Does WWE still want Gabe pursuing new talents to try to bring into the fold?

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Re: Evolve (WWNLive)

Post by Danwaka » Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:41 pm

Rich Kraetsch wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:30 pm
We were told after some people listened to this week's flagship that everyone from NXT in EVOLVE now is there by choice and that they do not see it a demotion of any kind but rather something exciting. So that definitely changes my scope on it. I'm with you cbacon in that, yeah, it's cool to see Ohno back in the mix, but that's ultimately hollow and meaningless. It just sells a few additional tickets. If this is going to be the minor leagues, you would rather see real development happen with the raw pieces like, say, a Jessie or whatever.

I expect a weird blend of weekend specials with Ohno, Ali, etc. and the raw parts. The real interesting pocket is like you guys were mentioning those not signed to WWE. Do they slowly just filter out? Does WWE still want Gabe pursuing new talents to try to bring into the fold?
I mean, at what point does Gabe just wind down EVOLVE and join NXT properly? Between the Performance Center, Largo Loop, NXT UK and NXT on the Network, why does he need to run a hundred ticket show to pursue new talent? Just give him the Largo Loop and call it a day.

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