FloSlam is Suing WWN & Everybody is Nuts

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mlev76
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Re: FloSlam Suing WWN

Post by mlev76 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:10 pm

Bix wrote:
Joe Lanza wrote:
thisredengine wrote: 5. Firing Botter was a big mistake. The site was his baby and never really became what he originally pitched.
I can confirm that it never really became what he pitched, because I know a lot of the ideas first hand.

Full disclosure. I was in informal talks with Botter for a job with Flo shortly before he was fired. There was no specific title discussed, but it wasn't the same role that McCarron accepted/quit, or the role many others interviewed for. We discussed a number of roles, including writing, "indie hunter"/point man in negotiations with indies, podcasting, and even an on camera role for a behind the desk wrap up/news show covering Flo promotions. I was local, had years of writing & podcasting under my belt, and most importantly, I was in tune with the wrestling scene, something Flo personnel obviously lacked, so it made a ton of sense. So yeah, Botter had a lot of outside the box ideas, and almost none of them came to fruition.

It reached a point where I was asked to submit a resume, which I did, either on the day or day after Botter was let go. That's where things ended, as I was his recruit. Another Flo employee (not on the FloSlam side) warned me that whatever Botter potentially had cooking with me was likely unknown to his bosses. I reached out to Toby to see if my name ever came across his desk, and never heard back. Of course, Toby was eventually fired as well.

RE: NJPW negotiations. I think this is bullshit, unless Botter was bullshitting me. In my conversations with him, he noted that they wanted to negotiate with NJPW, but didn't have the proper connections and continually hit dead leads. In fact, I was asked if I could get them in the door. I know a few people employed by or connected with NJPW, probably not the right ones, but of course I said yes anyway. I was sniffing around for a potential job, after all.
I have to be careful how I reply to this because a decent bit of what I know that's on-point (though far from all of it) was said off the record.

Between your post and stuff said to me privately, the vibe I'm getting is that Botter was being super grandiose in chatting up other reporters/media types even when it had little connection to reality. For example, the alleged offer to buy the Observer (or Observer site, it's not clear), which I had heard Dave told friends about with a dollar amount attached, was something that I was told earlier today was a Botter pipe dream not run by upper management. The story you tell sounds similar.

The whole company sounds increasingly like a clusterfuck, but it still seems likely that they're the wronged party in the WWN dispute. So...yeah.
A fair estimate of the content on Floslam was that 70-80% of its content was derived from WWN products. It was the most major company to sign with Flo and the only one that has remained loyal to the site for the entirety of the company's run (HOH may be as well, but I would be shocked if a single subscriber signed on for them). WWN increased its output to meet this role and became the face of Flo for better or worse.

Falsifying numbers, whether done because you have really no real data or malicously and intentionally deceiving someone, is wrong, 100%. If a client of mine suggested doing so, I'd tell them that either they should not do that or to find another attorney. And if I were being given data, I would demand proof especially if millions of dollars were involved.

With that in mind and ignoring the many issues apart from this that WWN and Gabe have (and that I personally have with their product that I've spent more on this year than in any previous years), I have a hard time with anyone casting Flo as a the wronged party. They didn't do their homework, they let their ambition trump logic and they were clearly shooting way above the pay grade. When you look at the extent of their ambitions (buying the Observer, getting ROH and NJPW), it's clear that they were desperate to get any deal and WWN got lucky as the one viable target for them. It was a bad deal for Flo, but no worse than the many, many deals that other companies flush with investor cash have made in the past.

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Re: FloSlam is Suing WWN & Everybody is Nuts

Post by mlev76 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:04 pm



Some thoughts on the complaint starting here.

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Bix
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Re: FloSlam is Suing WWN & Everybody is Nuts

Post by Bix » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:15 pm

FWIW, regardless of how it was taken by Dave and whoever he told, someone reached out to say that their understanding was that Botter never made an offer for Flo buying the Observer site, just that it was a pie in the sky "What if..." type discussion early. Even if friends of Dave's have relayed it as him saying there was an offer.

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Re: FloSlam is Suing WWN & Everybody is Nuts

Post by BoxingRobes » Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:26 pm

mlev76 wrote:

Some thoughts on the complaint starting here.
I have not read any of the official documentation, but I always assumed this was getting hotshot straight to a federal filing.

Not sure who said it (maybe you, idk)...but it would not shock me if they lull WWN out of business just by sure cost of litigation. I guess it depends if FLO really gets emotional over this, because they could put the hammer down on this company if they want.

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Re: FloSlam is Suing WWN & Everybody is Nuts

Post by DXvsNWO » Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:17 am

This has to be one of the craziest wrestling stories of 2017. What a whirlwind the last week has been.
Image

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Re: FloSlam is Suing WWN & Everybody is Nuts

Post by NutCrack » Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:43 am

Something about FloSlam always struck me as cheap and dodgy.

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Re: FloSlam is Suing WWN & Everybody is Nuts

Post by mlev76 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:03 pm

https://www.fightful.com/flosports-reve ... rt-filings

Gabe is, to a certain extent, owed an apology given what is being shown in terms of numbers. If this is how egregiously he misled Flo, then it seems Flo was deluding themselves about the potential for growth or saw WWN as a small piece of a much bigger pie that became much smaller without additional deals.
mlev76 wrote:Two pronged perspective here regarding all this:

1) As a fan and a soon-to-be former Flo subscriber, this series of events over the last 24 hours or so has left me rather disgusted with both companies. But, without knowing the exact details of what the actual claimed statistics were, my instinct is to side with WWN. They were the only thing pushing anyone to Flo and Flo really didn't provide them or themselves with any reason to stay. Beyond Mania weekend, which was great for getting tons of content, it really hasn't fulfilled it's promise. Withholding funds from WWN is a garbage tactic regardless of what statistics were provided. If it was so egregious, then they should have breached the contract and cut it off cleanly. Not airing the shows that people already paid for is also a giant dick move.

2) From the perspective of being a lawyer and someone whose reviewed, negotiated and sued over contracts, I'm really not sure how Flo can justify their claims that they were so egregiously misled. What data did they use to confirm what WWN said? If it was dicey, why did they proceed? What were the comparables? Why are they only now dealing with this and doing so in a very public and nasty way? I'd love to see the complaint to see how this wasn't simply a contract that both sides entered into with greater aspirations/lesser due dilligence and is now blowing up because they didn't look at things realistically.

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Re: FloSlam is Suing WWN & Everybody is Nuts

Post by supersonic » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:48 am


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Re: FloSlam is Suing WWN & Everybody is Nuts

Post by supersonic » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:33 pm

SPYWARE/POP-UP WARNING - https://www.pwinsider.com/article/11397 ... -.html?p=1

Johnson:
Although this was expected as soon as Flosports filed their amended lawsuit against WWNLive, WWN's attempts to have the lawsuit thrown out were rejected by the court on 11/30. They will be able to argue their points again, once they specifically respond to the amended version of the suit. WWN is expected to file a counter-suit.

Interesting to note that despite being shut down, the Floslam website has not been updated to reflect that the service is done. In a podcast he recorded after being let go by the service, writer Brent Brookhouse admitted that he had tried in vain to get management to drop the price point of the service and attempted to find other promotions for the service to work with after they cut ties with WWNLive, but management would never sign off on anything. Brookhouse admitted that after the WWN lawsuit was filed by Flosports, there was nothing, from a fan's perspective, that he would have wanted to subscribe to the service for, gave management options to fix things and basically was hired to do one job and trapped doing another.

In a story that completely infuriated me listening to the podcast, Brookhouse stated that he was preparing to drive three hours to EVOLVE's events to cover them for the service when he began getting messages from fans asking about the lawsuit Flosports had filed days before - so the service didn't even inform their point person in charge of creating content for the service about the lawsuit before it broke publicly. That basically meant Flosports would have been putting Brookhouse into a position to drive three hours and then walk into a show where he would have been seen as the "enemy" from the company that was now suing WWNLive, without any knowledge of the situation. In the end, Brookhouse was told not to attend the shows (as Flosports decided to pull EVOLVE's live streams hours before they went on the air) but the fact that no one thought to inform him privately is WCW-level ridiculousness.

What really, truly angered me, was hearing Brookhouse recount that he learned the platform was shut down when people began contacting after hearing the reports via Twitter. So, the guy (who has one young child and another baby on the way) found out he was fired from a job that sought him out from social media, well before he was able to actually get someone from the actual company to give him the respect of telling him what was going on. Actually, that sounds worse than even the worst WCW stupidity, but what should I expect from a company that responded to an email from me asking what they intended to do to replace WWNLive content so people didn't cancel their subs by actually CANCELING MY SUBSCRIPTION instead of responding to the question.

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Re: FloSlam is Suing WWN & Everybody is Nuts

Post by supersonic » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:45 pm


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Re: FloSlam is Suing WWN & Everybody is Nuts

Post by supersonic » Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:44 pm


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