Ring Of Honor

WWE, TNA, and all U.S./Canada based graps talk
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thecubsfan
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Re: Ring Of Honor

Post by thecubsfan » Mon May 09, 2016 6:47 am

Crowd reacted to the ROH more than I thought, but were quiet during some of the matches. They saw the NJPW guys as the big stars until the main event. They got up on their feet for the big spots, but it didn't feel like they were on their feet a lot.

Naito was really over coming out and cheered like a face.

Everyone seemed to like Fish/Ishii a lot more than I did. I had trouble following the action from where I was sitting; the sightlines for GA in that building have always sucked. You got get there early and I did not.

It sounds like the eight man semimain came across a lot better live than it did on the PPV.

Main event angle was weird to me, because the fans love the Bullet Club, or at least the idea of the Bullet Club. It seemed like the idea was that we'd be horrified about them attacking innocent people, but it came off as more ha ha comedy and cool guys doing their cool moves than something that got heel heat - and everyone knew that was going to happen, because the crew simply walked over to the merchandise stand and sold tons of t-shirts. It feels like it was more well received in the building than on the PPV, but if it was supposed to get Bullet Club over as heels that people want to see get beat, it failed. I was disappointed not to get a finish for the main event, not even someone ringing the bell for a no contest.

The dark match three way tag match was fun, no lost classic or anything, but I got to cheer for Kamaitachi and he won so that was cool.

The ticket only cost me $20 and the tag title match was fun and there was enough other interesting things to make it worth it. I'd feel differently if I spent $45 on PPV for this (but then I can't imagine a situation where I would've spent $45 on PPV.) The PPV all along felt like a cash in on having the NJPW guys around without a real desire to do one, and it came off more that way than I would've expected.

I liked AAW easily more than ROH of the two weekend shows. ROH still was fine, but I can't imagine going back to another show soon unless there's something extraordinary.

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Robareid
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Re: Ring Of Honor

Post by Robareid » Mon May 09, 2016 10:07 am

I know, armchair booker and all that, but bare with me:
  • The whole show goes down exactly how it did up until the main event.

    Lethal and Colt have a full uninterrupted match, and Lethal wins (preferably clean, but at least mostly clean).

    Post match you tease a respect thing (handshake perhaps) between Lethal and Colt only for them both to get jumped by the Young Bucks.

    After a short beatdown Colt and Lethal start fighting back and working together and get the upper hand.

    Then *lights go out* (if you really want to do it that way) Adam Cole hits the ring and teams up with the Bucks and the three of them take Colt and Lethal out.

    Then you have your nWo close-out of the show if you really have to (I'd rather it was way turned down so it was less goofy but I'm trying to change as little as possible here).
Little changes, but how much does that improve the show? Even if Lethal vs. Colt doesn't turn out to be great at least it'd feel fulfilling, and you still get your exact same hot closing segment without the need for a bad taste being left in your mouth.

That'd also let you appreciate the undercard more, which I thought was actually booked well and was solid->good in terms of in-ring:

Castle gets a fairly big win and they seem to be pushing him up the card
Briscoes-War Machine have a really good match and it was ROH-ROH
There was balance between NJPW and ROH in the booking (big matches went 1-1, other tags with NJPW were balanced too)
Bobby Fish's title win felt important and got off to a good start


Sure, Kyle losing coming off his big win against Cole wasn't ideal, but that would sting a whole lot less when you have a positive feel coming out from the show.

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PKThree
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Re: Ring Of Honor

Post by PKThree » Mon May 09, 2016 10:42 am

I kinda wish the Bullet Club was a little more willing to get heat as well. It has to be hard to book a strong heel angle when the heels pander to the crowd to the leve that they do

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Re: Ring Of Honor

Post by DETROIT_KEJB » Mon May 09, 2016 12:16 pm

PKThree wrote:I kinda wish the Bullet Club was a little more willing to get heat as well. It has to be hard to book a strong heel angle when the heels pander to the crowd to the leve that they do
This. It's a huge reason I haven't ever really been able to get behind the Bucks. It sort of works in Japan with them being foreign but in the states they put in zero effort as heels.

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Grammarian
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Re: Ring Of Honor

Post by Grammarian » Mon May 09, 2016 1:05 pm

I think Adam Cole is great, but him joining the Bullet Club at this point feels kind of like when Bret Hart and Jeff Jarrett joined the new NWO. The entire angle in fact felt reminiscent of something you'd see to end an episode of Nitro.
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Rich Kraetsch
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Re: Ring Of Honor

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Mon May 09, 2016 1:45 pm

There was a lot of talk w/r/t the crowd heat or lack thereof. Being there live I can say it was loud at times but mostly subdued. One of the big issues is most of the matches were simple showcase matches and not nearly the indie dream matches we get with other companies nor matches with any sort of build, story, or reason to get behind any of the workers. This led to the huge reactions for guys coming out, big reactions to prominent moves and a lot of silence in-between. The only matches with any sustained heat were Tanahashi/Elgin vs. Okada/Moose and that was mostly when Okada/Tanahashi squared off... which that doesn't need to be explained, that's a special pairing. The other was Colt/Lethal and not simply because Colt is from Chicago (though it helps) but rather that it was an actual story, with actual build and there was reason to get behind the guys beyond simply "OH COOL NAITO IS HERE!"

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MobbVanDam
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Re: Ring Of Honor

Post by MobbVanDam » Mon May 09, 2016 2:24 pm

Missed the first few matches, but what I did catch left me mostly cold. This is far from that big joint show they did that inspired an instant reaction VOW podcast. That show had me going nuts, this just had me waiting for it to be over.

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mlev76
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Re: Ring Of Honor

Post by mlev76 » Mon May 09, 2016 2:30 pm

Rich Kraetsch wrote:There was a lot of talk w/r/t the crowd heat or lack thereof. Being there live I can say it was loud at times but mostly subdued. One of the big issues is most of the matches were simple showcase matches and not nearly the indie dream matches we get with other companies nor matches with any sort of build, story, or reason to get behind any of the workers. This led to the huge reactions for guys coming out, big reactions to prominent moves and a lot of silence in-between. The only matches with any sustained heat were Tanahashi/Elgin vs. Okada/Moose and that was mostly when Okada/Tanahashi squared off... which that doesn't need to be explained, that's a special pairing. The other was Colt/Lethal and not simply because Colt is from Chicago (though it helps) but rather that it was an actual story, with actual build and there was reason to get behind the guys beyond simply "OH COOL NAITO IS HERE!"
I missed the show, but it is interesting to read people upset about an actual angle in ROH seeing as there really is little storyline development this year and way too may showcase or exhibition matches. Even with the Colt angle, did anyone actually believe that he'd win? Now, there is a defined story going forward at least even if it isn't all that new. Lethal vs. Cole will be a great and if they can resolve Omega's visa issues, having the Bucks, him and Cole as BC US could be lots of fun.

But, cut the prices, guys. Way too much for what looked like an inconsequential show going in.

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itsberlo
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Re: Ring Of Honor

Post by itsberlo » Mon May 09, 2016 2:40 pm

After last night , I feel that at this point the Bullet Club has jumped the shark, overstayed their welcome or what ever cliché you want to use. From the Bucks superkicking their own father to the cheesy camera guy saying " that's a $10,000 camera!" before getting superkicked, the whole angle fell flat to me. I was hoping after AJ, Karl and Doc left that we would see a slow removal of the Bullet Club brand and see the Bucks and Omega truly distance themselves from any Bullet Club member. I truly would not have had a problem if Cole joined the Elite but to me for them to keep adding to the Bullet Club seems redundant. It's just a matter of time until we get the Bullet Club "Wolfpack" vs. Bullet Club "Black and White" in the Tokyo Dome.

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PKThree
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Re: Ring Of Honor

Post by PKThree » Mon May 09, 2016 2:41 pm

mlev76 wrote:
I missed the show, but it is interesting to read people upset about an actual angle in ROH seeing as there really is little storyline development this year and way too may showcase or exhibition matches. Even with the Colt angle, did anyone actually believe that he'd win? Now, there is a defined story going forward at least even if it isn't all that new. Lethal vs. Cole will be a great and if they can resolve Omega's visa issues, having the Bucks, him and Cole as BC US could be lots of fun.

But, cut the prices, guys. Way too much for what looked like an inconsequential show going in.
I just hope the bucks and Omega actually try being heels in ROH. They are presented as top heels going forward but they're so lazy as heels with this angle being the prime example. Beat everyone up, go out and celebrate in the crowd and shill shirts? Hows that being a proper heel?

Cole's got a hell of a carry job on that front, but I fear he'll fall in the same hole.

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PKThree
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Re: Ring Of Honor

Post by PKThree » Mon May 09, 2016 2:42 pm

itsberlo wrote:After last night , I feel that at this point the Bullet Club has jumped the shark, overstayed their welcome or what ever cliché you want to use. From the Bucks superkicking their own father to the cheesy camera guy saying " that's a $10,000 camera!" before getting superkicked, the whole angle fell flat to me. I was hoping after AJ, Karl and Doc left that we would see a slow removal of the Bullet Club brand and see the Bucks and Omega truly distance themselves from any Bullet Club member. I truly would not have had a problem if Cole joined the Elite but to me for them to keep adding to the Bullet Club seems redundant. It's just a matter of time until we get the Bullet Club "Wolfpack" vs. Bullet Club "Black and White" in the Tokyo Dome.
"why should we put actual work in on establishing a new brand when we can piggy back on an existing one?" - Nick and Matt Jackson probably.

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TGD287
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Re: Ring Of Honor

Post by TGD287 » Mon May 09, 2016 3:05 pm

It was so weird in that in interviews, they talked how that they were going to focus on the Elite name, but if they were required to add "(Bullet Club)" next to it in Japan then so be it. And this was completely in the other direction.

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Rich Kraetsch
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Re: Ring Of Honor

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Mon May 09, 2016 3:50 pm

MobbVanDam wrote:Missed the first few matches, but what I did catch left me mostly cold. This is far from that big joint show they did that inspired an instant reaction VOW podcast. That show had me going nuts, this just had me waiting for it to be over.
Yeah, remember that? Joe and I were texting back and forth that night and decided we HAD to, HAD TO get our energy out somehow and do it via podcast. This show will be 100% forgotten within a week, hell it may already be at that point.

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Rich Kraetsch
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Re: Ring Of Honor

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Mon May 09, 2016 3:51 pm

TGD287 wrote:It was so weird in that in interviews, they talked how that they were going to focus on the Elite name, but if they were required to add "(Bullet Club)" next to it in Japan then so be it. And this was completely in the other direction.
I guess the question becomes, will this carry over as much to New Japan or primarily be ROH-focused? I'd imagine Gedo and Delirious talked it over before and Adam Cole got this spot because Gedo thinks highly of him but I suppose we'll find out!

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wac
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Re: Ring Of Honor

Post by wac » Mon May 09, 2016 4:00 pm

PKThree wrote:
itsberlo wrote:After last night , I feel that at this point the Bullet Club has jumped the shark, overstayed their welcome or what ever cliché you want to use. From the Bucks superkicking their own father to the cheesy camera guy saying " that's a $10,000 camera!" before getting superkicked, the whole angle fell flat to me. I was hoping after AJ, Karl and Doc left that we would see a slow removal of the Bullet Club brand and see the Bucks and Omega truly distance themselves from any Bullet Club member. I truly would not have had a problem if Cole joined the Elite but to me for them to keep adding to the Bullet Club seems redundant. It's just a matter of time until we get the Bullet Club "Wolfpack" vs. Bullet Club "Black and White" in the Tokyo Dome.
"why should we put actual work in on establishing a new brand when we can piggy back on an existing one?" - Nick and Matt Jackson probably.
Of all the things to criticize the Young Bucks for, not being willing to put in work to establish a new brand is a weird one

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