Ring of Honor (Discussion)

WWE, TNA, and all U.S./Canada based graps talk
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rovert
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Re: *NEW* ROH Thread. Keep it clean.

Post by rovert » Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:54 am

Thoughts supersonic?

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supersonic
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Re: *NEW* ROH Thread. Keep it clean.

Post by supersonic » Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:57 am

I'd be thrilled for a stacked NXT roster with the likes of the Bucks, Briscoes, Sombra, Scurll, Strong, KENTA, Lethal, Cole, Castle, and DIY busting ass to get on Raw and SmackDown.

It'd also be sweet to see Daniels go out on NXT, perhaps even a main roster run before retiring to offscreen positions.

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stevenkmason
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Re: *NEW* ROH Thread. Keep it clean.

Post by stevenkmason » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:38 pm

I'm doubtful that this will go through.

SBG is a large corporate entity, not a bunch of wrestling carnies- of course they're going to listen to a proposal, and even potentially explore terms. Unless WWE is willing to vastly overpay out of spite/wanting to shut down competition, they won't offer enough for it to be worth it for SBG.

Flo offered SBG in the neighborhood of $9 million on a 3 year deal for streaming rights and the library. WWE's offer to TNA was reportedly $1 million for the whole promotion, including library, contracts, and tv deals. Obviously it's a different situation because of the dire financial straits that TNA was in at the time.

WWE paid $4.3 million for WCW. Adjusting for inflation, that's $5.9 million today. WCW was more valuable to WWE at the time than ROH would be today, and WWE's wrestling profits (excluding losses incurred by XFL and the World restaurant) were more than double what they are now, almost triple accounting for inflation.

Traditionally businesses are valued for sale based on a multiplier of EBITDA (earnings before interest, tax, depreciation, and amortization). The entertainment industry, which wrestling would most closely align with, is usually somewhere in the 4.5-7.5 range. ROH's EBITDA is less than $1 million at this point, and I would really guess dramatically less than that. I wouldn't be surprised if it were under $100k really. So that would put a purchase price anywhere from $500k to $4 million, at the VERY high end.

If you look at SBG's interest as that of a VC firm, which they're not, and they haven't behaved as, but I will for the sake of conversation, it still doesn't make sense. SBG likely purchased ROH for around $2 million. Any value added during their holding would largely be based on SBG related TV deals, which would not carry over in the case of an acquisition. They've made minimal capital improvements and most of their high value (to WWE) contracts, are complicated by the NJPW relationship.

My gut feeling is that WWE will make an offer in the $3 million range and SBG will walk away. ROH will continue operations as normal, but with lowered morale due to these rumors.

However, this is wrestling, and anything can happen. Vince could get a bug up his ass and overpay for ROH just to shut them down. To anyone in the know, this would be an obvious mistake as WWE has failed at producing superstars in-house. So even from WWE's business perspective, it makes sense for ROH to exist, at the very least so they can have an additional source of talent. Not to mention that anyone in business understands that competition breeds innovation and is almost always good for business.

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monster mafia
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Re: *NEW* ROH Thread. Keep it clean.

Post by monster mafia » Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:07 pm

supersonic wrote:I'd be thrilled for a stacked NXT roster with the likes of the Bucks, Briscoes, Sombra, Scurll, Strong, KENTA, Lethal, Cole, Castle, and DIY busting ass to get on Raw and SmackDown.

It'd also be sweet to see Daniels go out on NXT, perhaps even a main roster run before retiring to offscreen positions.

this is not good.

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monster mafia
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Re: *NEW* ROH Thread. Keep it clean.

Post by monster mafia » Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:17 pm


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Danwaka
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Re: *NEW* ROH Thread. Keep it clean.

Post by Danwaka » Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:58 pm

supersonic wrote:I'd be thrilled for a stacked NXT roster with the likes of the Bucks, Briscoes, Sombra, Scurll, Strong, KENTA, Lethal, Cole, Castle, and DIY busting ass to get on Raw and SmackDown.

It'd also be sweet to see Daniels go out on NXT, perhaps even a main roster run before retiring to offscreen positions.
I like you sonic, but I find shit like this disgusting. How can you think WWE would do right by any of them?

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supersonic
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Re: *NEW* ROH Thread. Keep it clean.

Post by supersonic » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:13 pm

CM Punk
Bryan Danielson
Tyler Black
Kevin Steen
AJ Styles
Jon Moxley
Samoa Joe
Prince Devitt

Lesser extent:
PAC
Brodie Lee
El Generico
Austin Aries
Shinsuke Nakamura
Claudio Castagnoli
Tommaso Ciampa
Johnny Gargano

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Danwaka
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Re: *NEW* ROH Thread. Keep it clean.

Post by Danwaka » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:40 pm

Punk, the guy they drove away and fed to Rock and Cena.
Daniel, the guy they tried to bury and retire.
Seth Rollins, who has been mutilated as a babyface since 2015.
Kevin Owens, who lost 12 matches to Roman Reigns since becoming Universal Champion and then dropped the belt to a 50 year old part-timer.
Am I the only one who remembers AJ Styles pre-Brand Split?
Joe just debuted.
Finn Balor had one match.
Neville is only just getting some semblance of a push since his first main roster match with Rollins.
Luke Harper's last push before the Brand-Split was a Seven-Man at Wrestlemania. Before that, it was the Shield feud.
El Generico retired to Mexico. More seriously, Sami Zayn is a loveable punching bag with nothing to show for it.
Austin Aries only just came back from injury.
Cesaro isn't much more than a mechanic.
Shinsuke hasn't made the main roster yet.
Ciampa and Gargano haven't made the main roster yet.

This is a company with a perennial record of sabotaging it's own talent and having a very skewed view of how to get them over. While I don't think Delirious has been setting the world on fire recently with ROH, the WWE's creative teams generally do nothing more than fill time on Raw and NXT as of late, while Smackdown ranges between genuinely great and genuinely mediocre. The man at the top is the same as he's always been, and what you're asking for undermines the wrestlers, creates the same stale product we got post-Invasion and will always get fumbled by the WWE, because that's what the WWE does. They fumble, and turn to mediocrity when at the cusp of creativity.

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thecubsfan
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Re: *NEW* ROH Thread. Keep it clean.

Post by thecubsfan » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:44 pm

If there's a difference here, it's WWE has already had chances to hire all those ROH veterans (Lethal, Briscoes, Daniels, etc.) and either they didn't think those guys were worth extended a good offer towards, or those guys really didn't want to work in WWE. The younger guys (Cole, Castle, Dijak) probably were already eventually going to get WWE looks before this came up. WWE buying ROH wouldn't change either of those things.

There's always a chance someone who might not have gotten in any other way do end up in the WWE system and it works out wonderfully for them - the Briscoes are the obvious pick - but WWE can really sign anyone they wanted for Ring of Honor if they're patient enough. They don't need to eliminate ROH to make a loaded NXT, they just have to offer people deals they want. Or, I guess, take away other options.

It amazing ROH is just letting this news out there and not shooting it down publicly. Even if it's absolutely true, you've got to protect your brand at least until the deal is done, and there's nothing more damaging to ROH's alternative brand than the idea of them 'selling out' to WWE. They seem like they're totally understaffed for these things, but this is the most important thing going with the image of their company today and they're just going to pretend it's not happening.

(I'm sorry I said the word brand)

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monster mafia
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Re: *NEW* ROH Thread. Keep it clean.

Post by monster mafia » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:53 pm


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ODonnell
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Re: *NEW* ROH Thread. Keep it clean.

Post by ODonnell » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:45 pm

Danwaka wrote:Punk, the guy they drove away and fed to Rock and Cena.
Daniel, the guy they tried to bury and retire.
Seth Rollins, who has been mutilated as a babyface since 2015.
Kevin Owens, who lost 12 matches to Roman Reigns since becoming Universal Champion and then dropped the belt to a 50 year old part-timer.
Am I the only one who remembers AJ Styles pre-Brand Split?
Joe just debuted.
Finn Balor had one match.
Neville is only just getting some semblance of a push since his first main roster match with Rollins.
Luke Harper's last push before the Brand-Split was a Seven-Man at Wrestlemania. Before that, it was the Shield feud.
El Generico retired to Mexico. More seriously, Sami Zayn is a loveable punching bag with nothing to show for it.
Austin Aries only just came back from injury.
Cesaro isn't much more than a mechanic.
Shinsuke hasn't made the main roster yet.
Ciampa and Gargano haven't made the main roster yet.

This is a company with a perennial record of sabotaging it's own talent and having a very skewed view of how to get them over. While I don't think Delirious has been setting the world on fire recently with ROH, the WWE's creative teams generally do nothing more than fill time on Raw and NXT as of late, while Smackdown ranges between genuinely great and genuinely mediocre. The man at the top is the same as he's always been, and what you're asking for undermines the wrestlers, creates the same stale product we got post-Invasion and will always get fumbled by the WWE, because that's what the WWE does. They fumble, and turn to mediocrity when at the cusp of creativity.

There's glass half full people, there's glass half empty people, but this was just, the glass is half full and been it's poisoned levels of pessimism and negativity.

Any chance the IPPV thing was a morale boost in response to buy out rumors? Probably not

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supersonic
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Re: *NEW* ROH Thread. Keep it clean.

Post by supersonic » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:05 am

Meltzer:
Joe Koff had something sent to ROH talent to tell them that the discussions with WWE regarded licensing old footage from their library.

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monster mafia
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Re: *NEW* ROH Thread. Keep it clean.

Post by monster mafia » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:36 am

for dvds of owens,rollins etc...and stuff? ok cool.

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Re: *NEW* ROH Thread. Keep it clean.

Post by ChutiyaHogaTeraBaap » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:17 am


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supersonic
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Re: *NEW* ROH Thread. Keep it clean.

Post by supersonic » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:20 pm


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