Ring of Honor (Discussion)

WWE, TNA, and all U.S./Canada based graps talk
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LK3185
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Re: *NEW* ROH Thread. Keep it clean.

Post by LK3185 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:27 am

VilinskiKonjic wrote:
Fuck, though, that main event was special. Far and away the MOTN for me. Daniels busting his ass to a ridiculous degree at his age. Cole getting increasingly carried away and overconfident, spurred on no doubt by how well he's been able to hide behind Bullet Club but I love how it came back to haunt him here. The Styles Clash spot was brilliant, one of the best false finishes of the year,. Cole's tricks finally falling short of the mark worked great too, his overconfidence finally catching up to him as he couldn't spot the blatantly telegraphed Kazarian switch, it all fell into place perfectly. Can see some people turning their nose up at the bullshit but for me, it was necessary bullshit for the sake of the story and in the grand scheme of things I'd say that for me it actually greatly helped rather than remotely harmed the match.
See, I don't mind the finish BUT Cole's overconfidence is a weakness in the story to me. He felt Daniels wasn't on his level... So he shouldn't need to go to the low blow stuff, or have Kaz in his back pocket. I mean i get what they were trying to do but still felt it missed the mark a bit.

Really good show though.

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VilinskiKonjic
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Re: *NEW* ROH Thread. Keep it clean.

Post by VilinskiKonjic » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:34 am

LK3185 wrote:
VilinskiKonjic wrote:
Fuck, though, that main event was special. Far and away the MOTN for me. Daniels busting his ass to a ridiculous degree at his age. Cole getting increasingly carried away and overconfident, spurred on no doubt by how well he's been able to hide behind Bullet Club but I love how it came back to haunt him here. The Styles Clash spot was brilliant, one of the best false finishes of the year,. Cole's tricks finally falling short of the mark worked great too, his overconfidence finally catching up to him as he couldn't spot the blatantly telegraphed Kazarian switch, it all fell into place perfectly. Can see some people turning their nose up at the bullshit but for me, it was necessary bullshit for the sake of the story and in the grand scheme of things I'd say that for me it actually greatly helped rather than remotely harmed the match.
See, I don't mind the finish BUT Cole's overconfidence is a weakness in the story to me. He felt Daniels wasn't on his level... So he shouldn't need to go to the low blow stuff, or have Kaz in his back pocket. I mean i get what they were trying to do but still felt it missed the mark a bit.

Really good show though.
I feel like the low blow made sense after the Styles Clash spot because Daniels had literally been milliseconds from victory, so when Cole saw his shot he went for it because at that point, he wasn't risking anything. I could see him accepting Kaz in more to take a personal shot at Daniels too, rather than because he thought he needed Kazarian himself - I might be overthinking this but the personal shot he took at Daniels' wife during the match makes it an easier idea to run with - I can totally see Daniels thinking he needed Kazarian on the inside though. Partially because the Addiction are just the kind of team to pull that shit, but mostly to neutralise any advantage gained from the Bucks rather than to have the advantage themselves over Cole. It just so happened that the Hardys had neutralised the Bucks for them shortly prior.

There's a good chance I'm reading into it farmore than necessary. But the same things I'm reading into are what made me enjoy the match - and particularly the finishing stretch - as much as I did, so I'm not gonna complain.

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adamclark52
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Re: *NEW* ROH Thread. Keep it clean.

Post by adamclark52 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:57 am

I thought the 15th Anniversary show was a great show. I know RoH gets the shitz for having so little continuity between their weekly TV show, their untelevised shows and their pay per views but I honestly don’t care. I want to watch a wrestling show that won’t leave me feeling angry, ripped off and questioning why I still watch once it’s over.

Kenny King w/Caprice Coleman vs. Jay White
This wasn’t a very exciting match at all. Kenny King is good enough to carry a match on his own but I find he’s much more in his element when he’s tagging with Rhett Titus. Jay White really can’t hold my interest at all.
Winner: Kenny King

To Determine the Number One Contender for the Ring of Honor World Television Title
Frankie Kazarian vs. “Hangman” Adam Page vs. Chris Sabin vs. Punishment Martinez vs. Cheeseburger vs. Silas Young
This was a much better match but I kinda wish it wasn’t sudden death. Had it been an elimination match it would’ve been given much more time and been a lot better. Even still I really enjoyed it. Everyone had their moment to shine but Punishment Martinez was really the “winner” in this match. That dude is a fucking beast and even though I was rooting for Silas Young I kinda wanted Martinez to win. Neither won though.
Winner: Frankie Kazarian

To Determine the Number One Contender for the Ring of Honor World Heavyweight Championship
Bobby Fish vs. Jay Lethal
This was a really good match that will sadly be overlooked. I can’t say much more than that; that it was a really good match. Maybe MATCH OV DA NIGHT ov da week.
Winner: Jay Lethal

For the Ring of Honor World Six-Man Tag Team Championships
Dalton Castle & the Boys vs. the Kingdom (champions)
This match wasn’t as jokey as you’d think. The Boys were okay. Their purpose was just to get their asses kicked really and they did. One took a nasty bump at the beginning. But that nasty bump was nothing compared to how the match ended. Just as the match was gaining steam TK O’Ryan attempted a moonsault to the outside of the ring but his shins landed on the guardrail and he did a Sid on his left leg. It wasn’t quite as disgusting as Sids leg break at Sin in 2001 (since he wasn’t the focal point of the match) but if you watch it his boot (O’Ryans) is all that was holding his leg together too. Too bad. They had to improvise the ending.
Winners: the Kingdom (still Ring of Honor World Six-Man Tag Team Champions

For the Ring of Honor World Television Championship
Lio Rush vs. Marty Scrull (champion)
The ending of that last match kinda took the wind out of everything at the beginning of this match. But once attention was back on it this was another really good match. I don’t know what Lio was planning with the chairs on the outside of the ring but all I kept thinking was “it’s okay Lio, we already had one guy DIE tonight”.
Winner: Marty Scrull

War Machine & Davey Boy Smith Jr. vs. the Briscoes & Bully Ray
This match was a decent match. Nothing too special and it felt really thrown together, which it was. I haven’t seen Smith in years and he seemed pretty good. I’d like to see him become a Ring of Honor regular. Jay Briscoe needs to get rid of that hairstyle.
Winner: the Briscoes & Bully Ray

Las Vegas Street Fight for the Ring of Honor World Tag Team Championships
The Young Bucks vs. Roppongi Vice vs. the Hardys (champions)
On paper this match should have been great but there were a few things keeping it from being so. The biggest thing being the Hardys coming to Ring of Honor, winning the tag team titles and being added to the match all within the last six days. I felt really bad for Roppongi Vice because I’m sure they had this match booked for a while and they ended up just being in the way of the Bucks and the Hardys. It wasn’t even hidden a few times. There were some good spots and once the tacks came out the old violent mark in me got happy. And it was still really entertaining. I just felt bad for Roppongi Vice the entire time.
Winners: the Hardys

For the Ring of Honor World Heavyweight Championship
Christopher Daniels vs. Adam Cole (champion)
This was another really good match. I’ve known and respected Daniels for years but watching his promos leading up to it of him getting older and this being his last chance really struck with me. Any other time I wouldn’t have cared who won but after those I was firmly behind him. I really liked the double turn by Frankie Kazarian at the end. It gave me “the feels”. It was like Vader at the end of Return of the Jedi.
Winner: Christopher Daniels (new Ring of Honor World Heavyweight Champion)
_______________________________________________________________________________________

Overall I thought this was a really good show. It started out slow with what should have been a dark match (King verses White) but from then on it had me. Well worth selling my ticket to Dinosaur Jr. to stay home tonight, well worth the full pay per view price and I’m typing positive words for a pay per view for the first time in a long time.

The commentary was kinda bad. I was really glad to see Kevin Kelly there. He’s probably on a pay per appearance deal and I hope they bring him in for pay per views or reconsider and resign him. I like the guy. Colt Cabana was fine. But that other guy Ian Riccaboni sucked total ass. After the first or second match Kevin Kelly pretty much took over lead announcing because Riccaboni sucked. It was pretty funny at the end when he was talking trying to make a point and Kevin Kelly completely cut him off.

So I wonder. Is this the last we’ve seen of Adam Cole as Ring of Honor Champion? His last two reigns really haven’t been the best and should have only been one (that Kyle O’Reily run was a waste of time). If he is WWE bound he’ll probably get a rematch at a house show and that will be it. Hopefully the WWE beautifiers can get that fucking lump off his forehead.

But I’d like to see Daniels get a good run. He’s not really as “over” as Cole but not many in the roster are. I think he’ll be a good champion and he deserves it.
The only logical answer Sheamus could come up with was to disguise himself as Daniel Bryants seafood dinner.

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Joe Lanza
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Re: *NEW* ROH Thread. Keep it clean.

Post by Joe Lanza » Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:38 am

Grammarian wrote:Just generally, I don't like it in wrestling when wrestlers do weeks of play-acting in order to set-up a big moment later where they reveal it was a ruse. I'm not sure this angle needed a pretend Bullet Club turn. Still, overall I enjoyed the show.
Bingo.

The proper story would have been for Daniels to complete the comeback on his own. It would have been obvious, but sometimes the obvious story is the right one. I thought the ref bump and Kaz angle ruined an otherwise excellent match and took the edge off of what should have been a real feel good story.

Overall the show was great.

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ScorpioCorp
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Re: *NEW* ROH Thread. Keep it clean.

Post by ScorpioCorp » Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:24 pm

Joe Lanza wrote:
Grammarian wrote:Just generally, I don't like it in wrestling when wrestlers do weeks of play-acting in order to set-up a big moment later where they reveal it was a ruse. I'm not sure this angle needed a pretend Bullet Club turn. Still, overall I enjoyed the show.
Bingo.

The proper story would have been for Daniels to complete the comeback on his own. It would have been obvious, but sometimes the obvious story is the right one. I thought the ref bump and Kaz angle ruined an otherwise excellent match and took the edge off of what should have been a real feel good story.

Overall the show was great.
I think it added another layer to the story of the match & the rivalry which made it more intriguing. Also, there was the added tension of knowing that Kazarian was going to come out & try to screw his former friend. Basically, Kazarian was the wildcard factor. I was so happy when Kazarian sided with Daniels. I don't think it took any edge off the match. If anything, that gave it more edge.

As much as I like a simple story, I do enjoy one with some extra twists & turns.

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Re: *NEW* ROH Thread. Keep it clean.

Post by ScorpioCorp » Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:37 pm

Man, that 15th anniversary show was incredible. A show of the year contender. The main event, street fight & TV title match were fantastic. All 3 were over 4 stars for me. Also had a sneaky great Fish vs Lethal match. The rest of the undercard was good.

Also, R.I.P. Trent (not literally, but he took some nasty bumps in that street fight).

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rovert
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Re: *NEW* ROH Thread. Keep it clean.

Post by rovert » Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:58 pm

Grammarian wrote:Just generally, I don't like it in wrestling when wrestlers do weeks of play-acting in order to set-up a big moment later where they reveal it was a ruse. I'm not sure this angle needed a pretend Bullet Club turn. Still, overall I enjoyed the show.
Especially with the influx of TNA talent on the card and it being ROH's anniversary. Also Owens and Jericho recently did it.

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Re: *NEW* ROH Thread. Keep it clean.

Post by Murrr » Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:59 pm

What a great show that was! It has been a long time since I sat down and watched an ROH PPV from start to finish, and I went in with very low expectations, but ended-up having an absolute blast. I had Lethal/Fish, Scurll/Rush, and the Tag Title match all at ****+, and Daniels/Cole was on it's way to becoming a classic until the finish.

It didn't outright ruin the match for me, but it definitely ended things on a sour note. I just don't understand why you go to all the effort of building-up old man Daniels' quest to gain the one major championship that has eluded him throughout his career then have him win via swerve. That just completely undermines his struggle to me, and it took all the juice out of his eventual coronation. A shame, as I thought everything up to that point was excellent, but not everything can be perfect I guess.

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JB Gremlin
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Re: *NEW* ROH Thread. Keep it clean.

Post by JB Gremlin » Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:14 pm

The swerve finish didn't offend me as much as it has others, it got a good reaction from the live crowd and Daniels didn't NEED Kazarian's help, to me it was more about Cole not being able to finish Daniels without the help of Bullet Club, once that was gone Daniels got the win. I thought the match was really good, I was actually expecting a few more ROH History Call Back spots from Daniels for near falls but what was done worked nicely. A great moment for Daniels (who has worked real hard in this push) to cap off an excellent show.

Scurll/ Rush was also an excellent match, it was interesting that the crowd seemed to react a lot more for the arm work and early exchanges than they did some of the stuff slightly later on in the match, although they came back up for the finishing stretch, maybe that was because they went fairly long at a good pace or maybe it was just the slight repeating of spots, I'm not sure! I was surprised the Tower of London didn't get a bit more of a reaction actually, still I had high hopes for this and it delivered. Very good stuff.

The Tag Title Match was also very good, it was a touch sloppy in parts as you might expect from such a match but it was a lot of fun and the Bucks and RPG worked hard. as soon as that ladder got set up on the second rope everyone who has seen Trent wrestle knew the bump he was taking on it and JESUS CHRIST it looked like it sucked, I've always liked Trent on the indies but he really seems to be busting his ass the last few months.

Finally I thought Fish and Lethal was bloody brilliant and probably the MOTN for me, the best match both men have had in some time, I've never been a big lover of Fish outside of reDRagon but he was terrific here and they worked exceptionally well together. ****1/4 from me and the other three big matches all getting **** a really great show with everyone working really hard even the stuff I've not mentioned was pretty good (Although having not seen Bully for a while he looks like he's struggling on those knees nowadays) The best PPV they've had in a considerable time!

BTW, what's Colt's twitter handle? He failed to mention it 1000 times during the show!

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Re: *NEW* ROH Thread. Keep it clean.

Post by FilipPejic » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:00 pm

From the most recent Wrestling Observer Radio.

And I quote:

TNA or Impact is threatening anyone that uses the Hardys gimmick with a lawsuit and it actually ended up where the Dish Network cancelled the Ring of Honor PPV. [...] DirecTV and the cable companies aired the PPV, the Dish Network cancelled the PPV because of the legal letter sent by TNA.

Edit: Alvarez makes a good point that since TNA sent the letter to all ROH's PPV providers, ROH could've been screwed out of having the show on PPV if more providers had decided to pull the show as well.

Thoughts
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LK3185
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Re: *NEW* ROH Thread. Keep it clean.

Post by LK3185 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:30 pm

Its pretty ridiclous even if TNA is in the right about the characters gimmick. their was not one mention of the broken hardys by ROH.. I don't see how you can control chants or what someone wears to the ring either.

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syxxpakk
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Re: *NEW* ROH Thread. Keep it clean.

Post by syxxpakk » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:19 pm

Enjoyed 15th Anniversary more than many a ROH show I've purchased in the last year or so. Bully Ray seems to fit in right well where he's at on the card.
"If I’m Neville or Aries, I definitely give a shit about the take of TJ “Career Trajectory Vanilla Midget” Perkins regarding my burning desire for advancement and steady income." - supersonic

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Lawsoncomedy
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Re: *NEW* ROH Thread. Keep it clean.

Post by Lawsoncomedy » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:23 pm

Noticeably the Hardy's couldn't even really do the "Delete" signal, but alluded to it by doing chops.

I loved this show. The Kazarian swerve at the end, though I suspected it when he came out, worked for me on every level. And it sounded effective in the building. That match was special to me, it made the title feel relevant for the first time since Lethal had it. I've been all in on Daniels and his chase, and Kazarian turning on him really bothered me, so I don't mind the swerve here. We all know Bullet Club plays dirty, why wouldn't the wily vets have a plan to counteract that? It all makes sense to me. And made for a great moment. Especially because Kazarian didn't hit Cole with the title and lay him out for Daniels to hit the moonsaults on him. He let Daniels do it all his own. In that regard, I feel you can't even really call it a fuck finish in any way.

I thought that, the Lethal/Fish match, the Scurll/Rush match and the tag team street fight were all great matches. Trent is very underrated. Everyone acknowledges how great Rocky is, but when Baretta has his working boots on he's great. I thought he was the best guy in this match.

Sucks for TKO Ryan. That landing looked awful. Wouldn't wish that on anybody.

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Lawsoncomedy
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Re: *NEW* ROH Thread. Keep it clean.

Post by Lawsoncomedy » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:27 pm

Bully Ray, though he tried, doesn't really fit in this company.

I will continue to drive the Punisher Martinez bandwagon if anyone wants to hop on. Dude's impressive.

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syxxpakk
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Re: *NEW* ROH Thread. Keep it clean.

Post by syxxpakk » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:48 pm

He certainly fit last night. If he's in the main event scene, I agree with you. But as the third guy in a Briscoes six-man tag, yeah, he's just fine.

Agreed about Martinez. Bit of a coming out for him last night in my eyes.
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