The Lucha Underground Thread

WWE, TNA, and all U.S./Canada based graps talk
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DETROIT_KEJB
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Re: The Lucha Underground Thread

Post by DETROIT_KEJB » Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:42 am

I also fell prey to googling Matanza a month or so ago.

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GuestTimekeeper
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Re: The Lucha Underground Thread

Post by GuestTimekeeper » Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:14 pm

I hope people who rated the Royal Rumble ****+ feel silly after watching Aztec Warfare.

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Rich Kraetsch
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Re: The Lucha Underground Thread

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:29 pm

GuestTimekeeper wrote:I hope people who rated the Royal Rumble ****+ feel silly after watching Aztec Warfare.
What if you loved both? I thought very highly of this year's Rumble. It was as good a Rumble as you'll probably ever see and did a lot throughout the hour that entertained me greatly. Does that mean Aztec Warfare couldn't be better? Of course not. Aztec Warfare was incredible and I loved it, I'd probably go ****1/4-1/2

It's not a zero sum game.

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JML
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Re: The Lucha Underground Thread

Post by JML » Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:39 pm

Also Aztec Warfare doesn't have to restrictions and the WWE trope quota they have to meet that the Royal Rumble has. LU has a lot to explore with.

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mlev76
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Re: The Lucha Underground Thread

Post by mlev76 » Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:00 pm

Maybe I'm alone here, but I think AW is getting a tad overrated both here and elsewhere. Now, don't get me wrong, I thought it was very good, bordering on great and the debut of Matanza was as good of a debut of someone on US TV as you will see.

With that said, there are a few things that made this less than the classic some are claiming it to be:

-The involvement of joke characters like Marty the Moth, Mascarita Sagrada and Joey Ryan meant others who could have meant something had to be excluded.
-For large portions of the match, most of the participants were nowhere to be seen. That seems to have been intentional, but from the perspective of logic, it makes little sense that people will 'clear out' to allow others the chance to succeed or fail.
-I know some (Meltzer in particular) are praising the use of pins as superior to the Royal Rumble over the top gimmick. But, as to my second point, that allows for far less storytelling and a lot less great moments.

The idea that this or last year's match was the best RR style match ever is utter nonsense though I can appreciate enjoying something new. But, to me, it fell short of a classic.

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Chismo
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Re: The Lucha Underground Thread

Post by Chismo » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:00 pm

Those hollow comodo dragon eyes is what makes Matanza in my book. He's not tall, but he's fucking JACKED and those dead eyes piercing through the mask is what makes his appearance awesome. He carries himself perfectly. Also, amazing booking helps.

Anyway, Aztec Warfare II delivered in tugboats and then some more. Immensely fun match. I felt like a little kid watching the whole thing, especially the parts with Pentagon destroying Mil and Dario coming back to take his Temple back. So many little subplots and stories. I loved Joey Ryan doing his silly thing. Chavo was hilarious. Some eliminations were rather shocking. Mascarita! Catrina lost her cool. Mil didn't even get a chance. Famous B marking out. Matanza positioning himself 10 levels above the roster. Goddamn it, what a fucking match!

That's three stupendously awesome main events in a row. But yeah, Lucha Underground totally fell off, guys.

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Re: The Lucha Underground Thread

Post by GuestTimekeeper » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:18 pm

Rich Kraetsch wrote:
GuestTimekeeper wrote:I hope people who rated the Royal Rumble ****+ feel silly after watching Aztec Warfare.
What if you loved both? I thought very highly of this year's Rumble. It was as good a Rumble as you'll probably ever see and did a lot throughout the hour that entertained me greatly. Does that mean Aztec Warfare couldn't be better? Of course not. Aztec Warfare was incredible and I loved it, I'd probably go ****1/4-1/2

It's not a zero sum game.
Eh, to each their own I guess, but everything the Royal Rumble tried to do this year, AW did better. From making their new guy enter early and look like a big deal to having their champion defend the title to having a surprise come in at the last spot to dominate, AW did it better. I thought this year's Rumble was mediocre, with some good and some bad, but I have no complaints about Aztec Warfare this year.

I think it's only natural to compare the two, especially this year when they had the same stipulation.

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Re: The Lucha Underground Thread

Post by billknust » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:55 pm

No one is going to bring up the fact that AW is taped and can be edited any way LU pleases? Seems a bit unfair to compare the two head to head.

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Re: The Lucha Underground Thread

Post by Frank Olson » Sat Mar 26, 2016 2:07 pm

Aztec Warfare was a lot of fun, but my one knit pick is that I wish that Fenix had played a larger role in it. He had that great opening sequence with Rey Mysterio and some fun stuff with Cuerno and Mundo shortly afterwards but it felt like he got too lost in the shuffle considering that he was defending his title. Also, while I get what they were going for with Fenix being the first guy pinned by Matanza I think they could've gotten a similar effect with Mysterio or Puma being Matanza's first victim and then protected Fenix as a top-level guy by allowing him to get some offense in on Matanza before ultimately being the last guy eliminated.

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Re: The Lucha Underground Thread

Post by elloziom » Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:52 pm

Frank Olson wrote:Aztec Warfare was a lot of fun, but my one knit pick is that I wish that Fenix had played a larger role in it. He had that great opening sequence with Rey Mysterio and some fun stuff with Cuerno and Mundo shortly afterwards but it felt like he got too lost in the shuffle considering that he was defending his title. Also, while I get what they were going for with Fenix being the first guy pinned by Matanza I think they could've gotten a similar effect with Mysterio or Puma being Matanza's first victim and then protected Fenix as a top-level guy by allowing him to get some offense in on Matanza before ultimately being the last guy eliminated.
Good to see that I'm not the only one, who didn't like Fenix's early elimination. I think that Puma could easily be in this place so they protect their champ more (as he couldn't be really protected just by participating in this match with Matanza) for the rematch or something. Expected a little bit more from AW, but I am still satisfied with what I witnessed.

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Re: The Lucha Underground Thread

Post by BoxingRobes » Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:56 pm

Frank Olson wrote:Aztec Warfare was a lot of fun, but my one knit pick is that I wish that Fenix had played a larger role in it. He had that great opening sequence with Rey Mysterio and some fun stuff with Cuerno and Mundo shortly afterwards but it felt like he got too lost in the shuffle considering that he was defending his title. Also, while I get what they were going for with Fenix being the first guy pinned by Matanza I think they could've gotten a similar effect with Mysterio or Puma being Matanza's first victim and then protected Fenix as a top-level guy by allowing him to get some offense in on Matanza before ultimately being the last guy eliminated.
Paul Heyman booking.

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Re: The Lucha Underground Thread

Post by kcstlchi » Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:50 pm

I don't think they're planning on Fenix being a top guy. They needed a transition champ and he had the history with Mil so Mil could lose to him and not look weak. I think he's firmly slotted behind 3 or 4 babyfaces.

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Re: The Lucha Underground Thread

Post by Quentin Moody » Sat Mar 26, 2016 6:59 pm

Yeah as much as I like Fenix I never thought that he would have a sustained reign as champ. Having him be the transition guy and the first one to get wrecked was perfectly fine with me.

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Re: The Lucha Underground Thread

Post by BoxingRobes » Sat Mar 26, 2016 10:31 pm

Eh. I wasn't a fan of Fenix actually beating Mil in the first place...but I guess you needed a reason for Aztec Warfare to be for the title. Getting rid of the champ "first" is, IMO, great booking. It gets you invested for the rest as you know you'll see a title change.

/Maybe could have had Mil in a fit of narcissism, after beating Puma, Pentagon, and Fenix say he could take on the whole roster, but whatevs.

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Re: The Lucha Underground Thread

Post by wac » Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:54 pm

wac wrote:Marty the Moth is setting the gold standard for go away heat
I'm only through episode 7 but this Marty/Sexy Star/Marty's sister storyline is the most I've viscerally disliked a storyline in recent memory. Just abysmal on every level.

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