NWA Thread - The Relic, The Remnant

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Danwaka
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NWA Thread - The Relic, The Remnant

Post by Danwaka » Sun May 22, 2016 5:32 am

See above and see below, the new home for all things NWA on VOW.

That which was once monopolistic and prestigious.

That which was once the home of legends.

That which is far beyond it's prime, though if they're below GFW I can't really say.

Also known as Mama Tharpe's Baby Boy's Playground of Fun.

--

So yeah... The NWA.

I didn't realize they were around still until 2011 and then I found out in 2014 that they were doing stuff with NJPW. I guess the titles might still mean something in Japan, but considering there's a part of me that thinks of them fondly in relation to WCW and another part that fantasy books Hashimoto-Otani strangle-holding them for Zero-1 and a third part that thinks TNA should have kept the TNA-era lineages if not the belts...

Eh.

I've heard they've got a semi-decent territory called Smoky Mountain, is it worth checking out? Did Rob Conway ever improve? Any decent NJPW or NOAH matches I should look into? What's the deal with Tharpe taking over the NWA, is he like impeachable now and can he just kick out everyone else and keep the titles to his own little territory? Either way, is there really a place left for the NWA in modern North America, beyond being a booking office for a few loyalists ala Diamond Ring?

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Joe Lanza
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Re: NWA Thread - The Relic, The Remnant

Post by Joe Lanza » Sun May 22, 2016 5:42 am

The best thing about the modern NWA for the wrestlers is that if you're a champion, you will get booked in places that you would never get booked otherwise, which obviously means good exposure.

Of course, this means politics does rear its head, as we saw with the last few women's title runs. You also still have people buying title wins, something that was an epidemic pre-Tharpe and is now happening again because I know of at least one back door deal to hold a belt so I'm sure there are more.

With the Tiger Mask loss to Steve Anthony it does appear the NJPW/NWA thing is done. KES quietly dropped the tag titles a few months back, too.

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Re: NWA Thread - The Relic, The Remnant

Post by Danwaka » Sun May 22, 2016 5:57 am

Joe Lanza wrote:The best thing about the modern NWA for the wrestlers is that if you're a champion, you will get booked in places that you would never get booked otherwise, which obviously means good exposure.

Of course, this means politics does rear its head, as we saw with the last few women's title runs. You also still have people buying title wins, something that was an epidemic pre-Tharpe and is now happening again because I know of at least one back door deal to hold a belt so I'm sure there are more.

With the Tiger Mask loss to Steve Anthony it does appear the NJPW/NWA thing is done. KES quietly dropped the tag titles a few months back, too.
I remember you mentioning that whole "buying a belt" thing on one of the episodes. Was that really that big of a problem pre-Tharpe that people knew about it? What were the going rates meant to be? Who approved it, and for how long? Did wrestlers have to pay installments per title defense or was it just a lump sum? I'm surprised the World Women's title is involved, since I'd heard it was one of the more respectable titles for women on the NA indy circuit. I guess it was post-Garrett?

Is Tharpe's NWA service any good? I heard he had Paul Bosch's weird archives of Houston events, with all sorts of cross-matches between AWA-NWA-WWF talents.

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Re: NWA Thread - The Relic, The Remnant

Post by ayaashm » Sun May 22, 2016 6:09 am

Joe Lanza wrote:The best thing about the modern NWA for the wrestlers is that if you're a champion, you will get booked in places that you would never get booked otherwise, which obviously means good exposure.

Of course, this means politics does rear its head, as we saw with the last few women's title runs. You also still have people buying title wins, something that was an epidemic pre-Tharpe and is now happening again because I know of at least one back door deal to hold a belt so I'm sure there are more.

With the Tiger Mask loss to Steve Anthony it does appear the NJPW/NWA thing is done. KES quietly dropped the tag titles a few months back, too.
Politics with the Women's title. Does that have something to do with the wife of a former New Japan wrestler? Maybe that's why she gad such a long reign?
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Re: NWA Thread - The Relic, The Remnant

Post by Joe Lanza » Sun May 22, 2016 6:28 am

The bought title that I'm aware of was NOT the women's title. Sorry for the confusion. The women's title was strife with stupid, largely pointless politics though in recent years.

Pre-Tharpe people like The Almighty Sheik would flat out buy title runs, with the idea being it would increase their profile, and ultimately booking rates.

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Re: NWA Thread - The Relic, The Remnant

Post by Joe Lanza » Sun May 22, 2016 6:37 am

NWA Classics on Demand is the old Boesch Houston tapes, yes. The service gets rave reviews, but I haven't had the time to check it out yet (I will eventually). They promised contemporary matches as well, but I *think* so far the only new match added was the Jax Dane World Title win over Tenzan.

The Houston stuff is ultra rare aan much of it hasn't been seen since it originally aired. It was a good territory and well worth checking out. Probably the most prominent territory WWE doesn't own.

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Re: NWA Thread - The Relic, The Remnant

Post by MobbVanDam » Sun May 22, 2016 6:48 am

If the dudes down the street from me bought that tag title run off of KES I will laugh and laugh

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Re: NWA Thread - The Relic, The Remnant

Post by BackLash » Mon May 23, 2016 12:57 am

That's a real bummer if New Japan is done with the NWA, I still see Owens and Conway on their roster and wonder why they haven't taken them off like they had done with Styles, Ibushi, Mike Bennett, etc. (though Owens being a replacement in the BotSJ AND the he's still Bullet Club is kinda amazing). I won't say everything they did over there worked TBH, Wes Brisco was horrible and Mike Tarver was reckless. I'm one of those guys who sees a guy struggle in WWE and call it a mulligan, it is WWE after all, but those two (along with Tanga Loa for now) proved that they are bad wherever they go.

Overall though, I did enjoy when they came on tour, Tharpe is a great foreign heel manager, Jax Dane a great powerhouse, Yum Yum was bad, but his strange name, athleticism, ring gear and over the top selling won me over and Owens and Anthony are decent Juniors.

Then we come to Rob Conway, a WWE system guy and bodybuilder who, when compared to the younger talent (and some older) talent New Japan had, his matches would average 2-3 stars for their 4-5. This guy in 2013 was NWA's champion, a move most ridiculed, but I reacted with amazement. Here you had this 4x-OVW champion, WWE Tag Team champion, "military service man" who spent his last years in WWE as not only a jobber with horrible ring music, but a failure that got called out by Vince and then fired. To turn around, become NWA champion, become the face of that company, have feuds in freaking New Japan Pro Wrestling and win and to be treated as somewhat of a big deal, it was amazing.

So to hear that it all may be over really sucks. Say what you will of RoH being New Japan's **ahem** special friend, they are getting tons of exposure from it more so than NWA ever did. I also get the feeling that RoH's (along with Goldbar Flimflam Wrestling's) involvement with New Japan pushed NWA out of doing two consecutive Wrestle Kingdom shows, something that still annoys me.

But I digress, New Japan is my favorite wrestling company right now so it's premiere TV for me. But if NWA and NJPW are going to go their separate ways, then I will be following this thread to stay in touch.
Last edited by BackLash on Mon May 23, 2016 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: NWA Thread - The Relic, The Remnant

Post by PKThree » Mon May 23, 2016 11:00 am

Shame really. Since there should be a place for the NWA in the current wrestling landscape, even if it is just as a governing body for independents of various size and shape. Guess they can go back to Zero1 for a third run to get a Japanese promotion under banner. But that brings up the question of if there is a suitable fit.

Does the NWA have the funding to send guys over to Japan regularly by itself? Or does there exist a promotion in Japan not named Dragon Gate/New Japan who has the money to spare to fly in a bunch of random gaijin?

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Re: NWA Thread - The Relic, The Remnant

Post by Danwaka » Mon May 23, 2016 11:30 am

BackLash wrote:So to hear that it all may be over really sucks. Say what you will of RoH being New Japan's **ahem** special friend, they are getting tons of exposure from it more so than NWA ever did. I also get the feeling that RoH's (along with Goldbar Flimflam Wrestling's) involvement with New Japan pushed NWA out of doing two consecutive Wrestle Kingdom shows, something that still annoys me.
I can sorta see where you're coming from, but at the same time GFW and ROH provided a lot more for NJPW than the NWA ever did. Say what you like about Jarrett, he provided Jim freakin' Ross to commentate on New Japan's biggest show of the year. ROH basically lets New Japan walk over them and promotes their stars as top guys in a country that hasn't been too kind to Japanese stars in the last twenty five years or so.

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Re: NWA Thread - The Relic, The Remnant

Post by BackLash » Mon May 23, 2016 12:07 pm

Danwaka wrote:I can sorta see where you're coming from, but at the same time GFW and ROH provided a lot more for NJPW than the NWA ever did. Say what you like about Jarrett, he provided Jim freakin' Ross to commentate on New Japan's biggest show of the year. ROH basically lets New Japan walk over them and promotes their stars as top guys in a country that hasn't been too kind to Japanese stars in the last twenty five years or so.
You speak the truth and I'm glad to see New Japan expand their business into the west because of their help. Heck, I'll never complain about an epic New Japan RoH match. The year of WK9 however NWA got the short end of the stick after months of build for their matches. But hey it was fun while it lasted (for me anyway) and I understand New Japan has to run a business.

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Re: NWA Thread - The Relic, The Remnant

Post by BackLash » Mon May 30, 2016 12:48 pm

Since there are so many territories, I'm going to focus on certain wrestlers/territories. On my watch list:

-The Main NWA Champions
-Conway (natch)
-The Empire
-Jason Kincaid and his stable
-Chase Owens
-Gregory James (hear great things about him)
-Americanos
-Smokey Moutain (easiest territory to watch weekly)
-SAW
-Fight Nation!
-IWHE
-Old matches that need more love (Kid Kash's retirement match, Danielson vs. Devitt etc.)

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Re: NWA Thread - The Relic, The Remnant

Post by Buzz Sawyer » Mon May 30, 2016 5:08 pm

The NWA died after Crockett got control of the Gold in 1985-86. The NWA that sorta exists today is basically a glorified indy fed.
Who's Rob Viper ?

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Re: NWA Thread - The Relic, The Remnant

Post by Joe Lanza » Mon May 30, 2016 6:36 pm

The NWA today is essentially the exact same structure as the NWA of 50 yeas ago, with the only difference being the old NWA was a far more prominent and relevant collection of promotions. Today's NWA is mid to low level indies. There is actually a monetary advantage to being pushed as one of the "national" champions (World, Tag, Women's, North American, National) because the members are required to book the champs "X" amount of times per year, so you get added bookings plus exposure in new places (although glancing at title matches the last year or so it looks like this has become more of a suggestion than requirement).

Structurally, it is the same. The relevance fluctuates from completely non relevant to mid level indie type relevance, based largely on who the champs are. Rob Conway was a good choice at the time in terms of name value and working ability, because he was of major league caliber and could competently work New Japan. The titles have slowly ended up back on questionable choices. Jax Dane never caught on despite the NJPW tours and has very little cache. I couldn't pick the tag champs out of a lineup. The women's title is filled with politics. A recent junior run was bought and paid for. I was warned of these things happening when Chris Tranquillo (Tony Brooklyn) was forced out as the man behind the curtain so to speak. I think James Beard still books the titles but I'm not certain.

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Re: NWA Thread - The Relic, The Remnant

Post by Joe Lanza » Mon May 30, 2016 6:38 pm

Chris Ronquillo, but Tranquillo is a quality auto correct.

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