WWE (Discussion)

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DETROIT_KEJB
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Re: Let's bury the World Wrestling Federation....

Post by DETROIT_KEJB » Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:44 pm

Reigns is not Austin. The Authority/McMahon in 2015 is not McMahon in 1999.

There is no way to believe that the powers that be in the WWE would he anti Roman Reigns. He is the prototype of what they want. It's what I hate about this whole story. It made sense with Austin, Punk and Bryan. They were counter to everything the WWE stood for. Reigns is in the wrong role. He needs to be attached to the Authority not against them. You put Ambrose or Owens in the Reigns role, it might have a fleeting chance.

And then, not only would you be creating a top face, you'd be making Reigns the top heel at the same time.

In reality, how many times can WWE tell the same story? Especially when Reigns is the least effective as the anti-authority baby face?

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Re: Let's bury the World Wrestling Federation....

Post by Quentin Moody » Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:53 pm

DETROIT_KEJB wrote:
In reality, how many times can WWE tell the same story? Especially when Reigns is the least effective as the anti-authority baby face?
Him doing the anti Authority shtick has worked more than anything they've tried with him since he's came back so from that perspective it's worked. The fact that it took being the anti Authority guy and getting McMahon's directly involved to get the crowd invested in him is extremely telling.

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wac
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Re: Let's bury the World Wrestling Federation....

Post by wac » Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:11 pm

DETROIT_KEJB wrote:Reigns is not Austin. The Authority/McMahon in 2015 is not McMahon in 1999.
Wrestling in 2015 is not wrestling in 1999. This is an unreasonable standard to hold people to. If this angle works in the context of 2015/16, then go with it.
There is no way to believe that the powers that be in the WWE would he anti Roman Reigns. He is the prototype of what they want. It's what I hate about this whole story. It made sense with Austin, Punk and Bryan. They were counter to everything the WWE stood for. Reigns is in the wrong role. He needs to be attached to the Authority not against them. You put Ambrose or Owens in the Reigns role, it might have a fleeting chance.

And then, not only would you be creating a top face, you'd be making Reigns the top heel at the same time.

In reality, how many times can WWE tell the same story? Especially when Reigns is the least effective as the anti-authority baby face?
This is kind of a moot point post-Survivor Series. They had a chance to do something new and they didn't do it. Turning him now makes less than zero sense. They could have (/should have) used Survivor Series to elevate Owens or Ambrose to the point that they could be credible as the #1 heel or #1 face, but they didn't do it. If the goal is to get Reigns to succeed in this role, for the love of god, just put him in the position to succeed in this role and see if he can succeed in this role!

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DETROIT_KEJB
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Re: Let's bury the World Wrestling Federation....

Post by DETROIT_KEJB » Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:41 pm

Are you okay if that means basically booking him like John Cena? Where he overcomes all odds and rips through the entire upper mid card (only because there is no main event heels) on a regular basis?

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Re: Let's bury the World Wrestling Federation....

Post by Garuda » Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:54 pm

wac wrote:This is kind of a moot point post-Survivor Series. They had a chance to do something new and they didn't do it. Turning him now makes less than zero sense. They could have (/should have) used Survivor Series to elevate Owens or Ambrose to the point that they could be credible as the #1 heel or #1 face, but they didn't do it. If the goal is to get Reigns to succeed in this role, for the love of god, just put him in the position to succeed in this role and see if he can succeed in this role!
I agree. They've flopped around long enough for something to stick. People do want to like Roman, so let's see if they can maintain him as an ass-kicker long enough for this to stick. Sadly, it looks like HHH and Lesnar (and Cena eventually) are the only big opponents. Everyone else is going to be tough to get juice for. Maybe now that he's champ they can refocus elsewhere.

And finally, it's just nice that this endless transition is finally over. They've been trying to groom and coronate him forever. If he fails, I'm sure they'll have excuses for him and try again, but at it feels like the timeline has progressed somewhere.

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Re: Let's bury the World Wrestling Federation....

Post by wac » Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:14 pm

DETROIT_KEJB wrote:Are you okay if that means basically booking him like John Cena? Where he overcomes all odds and rips through the entire upper mid card (only because there is no main event heels) on a regular basis?
I'm not a Reigns fan, I would much prefer if someone other than Reigns was The Guy, but if they're going to spend 2 years making sure nobody else is allowed to be more over than Reigns I'd at least like it if they could get the job done with him. I liked Reigns as much as the next guy when he was in The Shield; he was protected, they hid his weaknesses and accentuated his strengths. They put him in the best possible position to succeed. He was well booked. The WWE's incompetent booking turns me off way more than any individual guy on the roster. I'm not in love with the idea of Super Roman Reigns tearing through the roster, but there is every reason for them to give it a shot right now. This opens up so many more options going into the Rumble and Wrestlemania season.

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Re: Let's bury the World Wrestling Federation....

Post by themib » Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:12 pm

Something worked this week at least anyway, as average viewership went up over 800,000 compared to last week, and Hour 3 was up by nearly a million viewers. Of course we should see how many stick around next week, but clearly WWE produced something that caused interest with a lot of people who had gone away.

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Re: Let's bury the World Wrestling Federation....

Post by BillThompson » Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:48 pm

wac wrote:I can't think of any reason he'd be compared to Tanahashi besides "they are both pro wrestlers who some people dislike."
There really is no comparison; Reigns is a really good to great pro wrestler while Tanahashi is still pretty darn awful.

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Re: Let's bury the World Wrestling Federation....

Post by ajdb » Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:49 am

We got Vince McMahon himself last night. The article by Brandon Howard got me thinking...

How far in shitter is the product that it takes Vince making a last second call and putting Reigns over himself?
Is it a concern that Steph & Trips can't garner the same reaction? Vince can't live forever
Does NXT hinder our ability to hate Triple H, because Steph wasn't getting heel heat, she was getting X-Pax heat?

Also, those of you who keep saying the Rumble is wide open, go get yourself checked for head trauma. There are only 2 people winning that Rumble, Brock Lesnar or John Cena. Rematch or the default button.

Last night also cemented something for me. Undertaker's streak was ended with sole purpose of making Roman Reigns. Roman was supposed to beat Brock at Mania. He was supposed to beat the man that ended The Undertaker's streak. So come hell or high water Vince was going to get that belt on Reigns, because he respects Taker that much. If that meant going out and putting himself on camera once again, he was going to do it. The final step is Roman pinning Brock at Mania. I really don't see any other way Mania ends.

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Re: Let's bury the World Wrestling Federation....

Post by rollup » Wed Dec 16, 2015 2:21 am

let us just enjoy a good raw with a great main event

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Re: Let's bury the World Wrestling Federation....

Post by MobbVanDam » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:33 am

BillThompson wrote:
wac wrote:I can't think of any reason he'd be compared to Tanahashi besides "they are both pro wrestlers who some people dislike."
There really is no comparison; Reigns is a really good to great pro wrestler while Tanahashi is still pretty darn awful.

Whoa, how did the Observer board leak into this place

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Re: Let's bury the World Wrestling Federation....

Post by mlev76 » Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:55 am

ajdb wrote:We got Vince McMahon himself last night. The article by Brandon Howard got me thinking...

How far in shitter is the product that it takes Vince making a last second call and putting Reigns over himself?
Is it a concern that Steph & Trips can't garner the same reaction? Vince can't live forever
Does NXT hinder our ability to hate Triple H, because Steph wasn't getting heel heat, she was getting X-Pax heat?

Also, those of you who keep saying the Rumble is wide open, go get yourself checked for head trauma. There are only 2 people winning that Rumble, Brock Lesnar or John Cena. Rematch or the default button.

Last night also cemented something for me. Undertaker's streak was ended with sole purpose of making Roman Reigns. Roman was supposed to beat Brock at Mania. He was supposed to beat the man that ended The Undertaker's streak. So come hell or high water Vince was going to get that belt on Reigns, because he respects Taker that much. If that meant going out and putting himself on camera once again, he was going to do it. The final step is Roman pinning Brock at Mania. I really don't see any other way Mania ends.
The Authority ran its course with the end of the Bryan feud. I guess the Rollins build worked too, but really, once he won the title at Mania, there was no juice left. Vince works because he isn't a regular character and it felt special. In all honesty, the best possible scenario is to keep them all off tv most of the year and use them sparingly.

If Reigns is going into Mania champion (and he really should at this point), the only 3 people that can win are Brock, Taker and Cena. I think the money match is Lesnar as there was no resolution last year. Cena will probably happen eventually, but right now, I think its Brock.

In terms of ending the streak, I think the purpose was to give a big win to the next guy, Reigns or otherwise. It's probably less powerful now since Taker has gotten a win back (even under shady circumstances), but it would be foolish to not emphasize that Lesnar beat the streak and beating him at Mania is the new 'brass ring.'

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BillThompson
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Re: Let's bury the World Wrestling Federation....

Post by BillThompson » Wed Dec 16, 2015 2:57 pm

MidSouthMonster wrote:
BillThompson wrote:
wac wrote:I can't think of any reason he'd be compared to Tanahashi besides "they are both pro wrestlers who some people dislike."
There really is no comparison; Reigns is a really good to great pro wrestler while Tanahashi is still pretty darn awful.

Whoa, how did the Observer board leak into this place
Yes, there's no possibility for genuine difference of opinion, we must all think the same thing, always.

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Garuda
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Re: Let's bury the World Wrestling Federation....

Post by Garuda » Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:54 pm

mlev76 wrote:If Reigns is going into Mania champion (and he really should at this point), the only 3 people that can win are Brock, Taker and Cena. I think the money match is Lesnar as there was no resolution last year. Cena will probably happen eventually, but right now, I think its Brock.'
Is HHH not an option, as well? I don't think he'd be the strongest choice, but I'm inclined to believe that the WWE thinks he would be. They have been retreading the Daniel Bryan story to get Roman over, and they've got beef; it'd work to at least some degree. Wouldn't be my choice, but I can't count him out. In particular I can imagine Vince and HHH thinking that HHH being a surprise entrant into the Royal Rumble and winning it all being a juicy surprise.

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Re: Let's bury the World Wrestling Federation....

Post by Shining Wiz » Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:59 pm

BillThompson wrote:
MidSouthMonster wrote:
BillThompson wrote:
There really is no comparison; Reigns is a really good to great pro wrestler while Tanahashi is still pretty darn awful.

Whoa, how did the Observer board leak into this place
Yes, there's no possibility for genuine difference of opinion, we must all think the same thing, always.
About as much possibility of you not intending to elicit that kind of response.

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