WWE (Discussion)

WWE, TNA, and all U.S./Canada based graps talk
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MobbVanDam
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Re: Let's bury the World Wrestling Federation....

Post by MobbVanDam » Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:50 am

wac wrote:
MidSouthMonster wrote:There hasn't been a huge pop since Bryan turned on Bray.
Well there was Wrestlemania that year
I don't even count that. I was there, and the end of the streak absolutely murdered that crowd. There was no coming back from that

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sivapc
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Re: Let's bury the World Wrestling Federation....

Post by sivapc » Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:58 am

this might come handy

Image

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Morten VH
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Re: Let's bury the World Wrestling Federation....

Post by Morten VH » Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:20 am

It's not even a month since Joe put over Reigns strong on the podcast, and yet people are saying he's a hater. I wonder if people actually hear what is being said, or what they want to hear be said.

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mlev76
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Re: Let's bury the World Wrestling Federation....

Post by mlev76 » Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:35 am

Morten VH wrote:It's not even a month since Joe put over Reigns strong on the podcast, and yet people are saying he's a hater. I wonder if people actually hear what is being said, or what they want to hear be said.
Reigns has become a flashpoint for all irrational wrestling discussion. He's almost Trumpesque in that way

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Wiretaup
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Re: Let's bury the World Wrestling Federation....

Post by Wiretaup » Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:28 pm

Post match


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themib
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Re: Let's bury the World Wrestling Federation....

Post by themib » Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:31 pm

RAW's in Minneapolis next week, centered around the Slammys. IIRC, Vince isn't a big fan of the Minneapolis crowd, so this could be a tough start for Roman.

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supersonic
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Re: Let's bury the World Wrestling Federation....

Post by supersonic » Tue Dec 15, 2015 4:25 pm

themib wrote:RAW's in Minneapolis next week, centered around the Slammys. IIRC, Vince isn't a big fan of the Minneapolis crowd, so this could be a tough start for Roman.
I expect a certain stadium event announcement next week.

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Morten VH
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Re: Let's bury the World Wrestling Federation....

Post by Morten VH » Tue Dec 15, 2015 4:55 pm

If only WWE could plan out the schedule themselves.. :roll:

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BillThompson
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Re: Let's bury the World Wrestling Federation....

Post by BillThompson » Tue Dec 15, 2015 4:58 pm

wac wrote:It's incredible the curve Roman Reigns gets graded on, but I guess this is a losing battle.
Don't worry, you can keep grading Tanahashi and most of New Japan on a curve, we won't mind.

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wac
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Re: Let's bury the World Wrestling Federation....

Post by wac » Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:40 pm

BillThompson wrote:
wac wrote:It's incredible the curve Roman Reigns gets graded on, but I guess this is a losing battle.
Don't worry, you can keep grading Tanahashi and most of New Japan on a curve, we won't mind.
Thanks!

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DETROIT_KEJB
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Re: Let's bury the World Wrestling Federation....

Post by DETROIT_KEJB » Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:42 pm

Part of the burden when your anointed is a ridiculous measure of everything. It comes with the territory and I don't think Roman should get a free pass. It happened to Cena too.

The measuring stick isn't set in stone either. Wrestling evolves and changes on a weekly basis. It's not that surprising that opinion changes with such frequency.

I've gone from disliking Roman during the Shield debut because I was already familiar with Rollins and Ambrose. I then thought he was going to breakout and outshine the other two, based on his reactions and look. Then he started wrestling singles matches and he was awful. Then he looked great in a huge match with Brock at mania. Then he started talking and he was awful. Then he wrestled the same match format for a year and it was even worse. Then it fell on WWE for not booking him properly.

The point is that ther will always be a "and then" with Roman. They could flip him heel and let him work like Brock. Guess what? People will love it. They can book him as another superman and we can basically extend the Cena era another 15 years.

Anything can happen with Roman.

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wac
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Re: Let's bury the World Wrestling Federation....

Post by wac » Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:04 pm

I think Reigns has a lower bar to clear than any anointed top guy I can think of. Not getting booed out of the building is a big success. He doesn't have to get the biggest sustained crowd reactions in years AND move Raw ratings AND do killer house show business AND do big merch sales. His promos aren't even good enough to call mediocre. The crowds pop for his big end of the match spots, but his match structures aren't exactly lighting the world on fire, his offense is not very good, and he's not a guy who has demonstrated any consistent ability to carry an opponent. His matches usually aren't terrible, but they're formulaic and there's not a lot of depth or rewatchability.

I can't think of any reason he'd be compared to Tanahashi besides "they are both pro wrestlers who some people dislike."

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Hollaplaya
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Re: Let's bury the World Wrestling Federation....

Post by Hollaplaya » Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:20 pm

I still think Reigns winning the title was rushed coming off of the TLC angle, which was the first step towards Reigns regaining his edge. They should've down more to re-establish his edge on Raw. Like have destroy Vince McMahon or have him cut a Diesel post 1995 Survivor Series style promo. Have him say he will not be a corporate puppet and the same guy you remembered from the Shield is back.

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wac
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Re: Let's bury the World Wrestling Federation....

Post by wac » Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:33 pm

Hollaplaya wrote:I still think Reigns winning the title was rushed coming off of the TLC angle, which was the first step towards Reigns regaining his edge. They should've down more to re-establish his edge on Raw. Like have destroy Vince McMahon or have him cut a Diesel post 1995 Survivor Series style promo. Have him say he will not be a corporate puppet and the same guy you remembered from the Shield is back.
I actually think this was the best way to go. Strike while the iron's hot, right after TLC's post-match angle. Don't wait around and risk his crowd reactions going back to apathy or boos. Don't count on a drawn out feud with Sheamus where he keeps getting screwed. The Vince angle was the perfect way to do it, Vince as heel foil works so much better than any other method they've tried. Triple H and Stephanie have had go away heat for a while, and one of the big problems is that nobody has ever really been able to win against them.

The two most proven, foolproof gimmicks in WWE history are Vince as the heel owner and the babyface standing up to him and coming out on top. Unless you count Reigns at Rumble or Fastlane or Undertaker at Summerslam (which you shouldn't really in context), every single main roster PPV this year (including King of the Ring and Elimination Chamber) ended with the heels standing tall. There were never any payoffs to investing in the babyfaces, especially Ambrose. The big face team win at Survivor Series was negated within weeks. We'll see if they can actually commit to this one. As down as I am on Reigns as a performer, this company is in such desperate need of an actual payoff to a storyline that I hope they go through with it.

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Hollaplaya
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Re: Let's bury the World Wrestling Federation....

Post by Hollaplaya » Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:38 pm

wac wrote:
Hollaplaya wrote:I still think Reigns winning the title was rushed coming off of the TLC angle, which was the first step towards Reigns regaining his edge. They should've down more to re-establish his edge on Raw. Like have destroy Vince McMahon or have him cut a Diesel post 1995 Survivor Series style promo. Have him say he will not be a corporate puppet and the same guy you remembered from the Shield is back.
I actually think this was the best way to go. Strike while the iron's hot, right after TLC's post-match angle. Don't wait around and risk his crowd reactions going back to apathy or boos. Don't count on a drawn out feud with Sheamus where he keeps getting screwed. The Vince angle was the perfect way to do it, Vince as heel foil works so much better than any other method they've tried. Triple H and Stephanie have had go away heat for a while, and one of the big problems is that nobody has ever really been able to win against them.

The two most proven, foolproof gimmicks in WWE history are Vince as the heel owner and the babyface standing up to him and coming out on top. Unless you count Reigns at Rumble or Fastlane or Undertaker at Summerslam (which you shouldn't really in context), every single main roster PPV this year (including King of the Ring and Elimination Chamber) ended with the heels standing tall. There were never any payoffs to investing in the babyfaces, especially Ambrose. The big face team win at Survivor Series was negated within weeks. We'll see if they can actually commit to this one. As down as I am on Reigns as a performer, this company is in such desperate need of an actual payoff to a storyline that I hope they go through with it.
Yeah, Vince really showed one of the main WWE problems has been a lack of effective heels to help get babyface over.

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