VOW Flagship: G1 Finals, KENTA/Shibata & WWE SummerSlam Review

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suplexberry
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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Finals, KENTA/Shibata & WWE SummerSlam Review

Post by suplexberry » Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:38 pm

Real saddened not to hear a breakdown of the legendary BONE SOLDIER turn on Yoshitatsu, one of the best developed angles in history, resulting in a legendarily bad match between the two. BONER was 1000% right to turn on that dollar store HHH. The vote that Yoshi had on Twitter. Mwah, *chef's kiss* sublime.

In all seriousness, though, the Shibata angle had me *shrieking*. It was so unexpected and the level of physicality shocked me. He was hitting all his spots! It was like he hadn't lost a step. The KENTA turn in itself was predictable the moment he walked out, but that whole "turning on your tag partners" angle is such a good trope to me, utilized correctly it's just delicious to watch. The fact KENTA was already a hated guy helped tremendously. And the Shibata angle is just perfect for both guys. Perfect for Shibata to return to defend the company against his former best friend. Like Joe said, I truly believe that could sell out the Dome. God I hope it happens.

People have this attitude about gaijins because I think the assumption remains everybody's goal is WWE, which is somewhat founded, but also somewhat misses the point. The landscape is changing. I mean, isn't Tama mostly trained in the dojo as well? I am starting to think that dude is not waiting for Florida to call, he's happy where he is. I think the standard attitude towards work is different in the West, so yes, assumably you could say all these Western guys have an independent/I-look-out-for-me kind of attitude - work in Japan is stable, you could probably put in the years and even retire in this company, but you could go on your own and try making your name elsewhere.

But people also underestimate the appeal of a sure thing. NJPW is thriving, and doesn't look to be slowing down any. They're creating a place where you can apply your trade until your Nakanishiland years. AEW is a newborn. WWE will take you just to have you, and then spit you out five years later in a vigorous spring cleaning along with twelve other names from NXT. NJPW is creating stars, they're expanding, and even if they drop off a cliff at some point, at least you can say you were there for the best years they did in business, both creatively and financially.

So for a guy like Jay or Juice, the appeal of NJPW is not just loyalty, it's not just pay, it's not just prestige, but it's also a surefire thing. Hell, in today's economy, a lot of people would kill for a job you could actually climb the ladder AND retire in. But it's a lot rarer.

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Ferrante207
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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Finals, KENTA/Shibata & WWE SummerSlam Review

Post by Ferrante207 » Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:19 pm

In my mind, legitimacy does matter to a degree. Guys like Shelton Benjamin, Ziggler, Gable, Swagger may not have mma records but I know for sure they'd be able to whip any random fan's ass. I hate guys like Adam Cole and Gargano that I'm pretty convinced me 5'7 205 lbs only done some basic BJJ and kickboxing, would kick their ass. Yes, Kashin got murked in pride but he'd still beat the common man's ass. Just having a baseline of legitimacy helps, but I can def see it going out of fashion. People want wrestlers similar to them, not some aspirational badass. Maybe I've got too much JR in me, because I still believe "real sports" draws from a better athletic talent pool. Brock, the biggest freak of wrestling couldn't even make the Vikings practice squad. I always wonder about a counter-factual world in which wrestling pays the highest salaries and is the most prestigious. What would a motivated, mark-ass wrestling fan version of like Allen Iverson do in a wrestling? We'd reach even greater heights. A guy like Richochet couldn't even come close to matching NFL combine numbers. De'Aaron Fox has more burst and twitch than Richochet and Montez Ford.

Joe going all Ranger Rick with the fucking pest control corner was fun. Have you encountered scorpions in Texas? My mom told me a horror story of finding scorpions in her clothes in the dryer, while she was living outside of Dallas.

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suplexberry
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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Finals, KENTA/Shibata & WWE SummerSlam Review

Post by suplexberry » Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:24 pm

armsofsleep wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:47 am
The Naito thing feels like another example of people approaching booking from different angles. I think NJPW business will pretty much keep booming no matter what, but I think the Naito story has just been a major fumble from a storytelling quality perspective. It’s like if Thanos just killed all the heroes in Infinity War but then Endgame just never came out.

I actually agree that they will do Naito/Okada again but I just think it will feel too late and the result won’t feel as satisfying. The ship has sailed. As a Naito fan (less emotionally invested and more just I think he’s by far the best in ring worker in the company so I want him doing more main event matches) honestly I don’t care enough anymore. It’ll be cool when he wins but I’ll never be as invested as I was in 2016/2017.
I agree with this. He is hot as ever but the storyline makes less sense.

The storyline was pitch-fucking-perfect going into WK12. After that, he's done .. what exactly? He's been Naito, the ungovernable. Over as fuck and cool as hell, but not much progression has happened. Which is fine, characters don't need to be constantly changing, if it works keep it. But it also means he is not as dynamic as a character as he was, going into that angle and match.

This is one of those things where I feel like some people may say you're spoiled, so what if a storyline didn't pay off precisely the way you wanted to, big whoop, he's not being buried. But I think if we're gonna talk about wrestling in a nuanced, interesting way, then the text should be subject to this kind of criticism. It's not that business fell off, Naito was buried, nobody bought an LIJ shirt ever again, but it's this niggling dissatisfaction with a character arc that many, many Naito fans have.

I don't think the ship has entirely sailed because I trust in Naito and Gedo that they could spin a satisfying new twist to lead into a match. But I'm also hesitant. I don't know. I will judge it when I see it.

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BoxingRobes
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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Finals, KENTA/Shibata & WWE SummerSlam Review

Post by BoxingRobes » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:13 pm

Joe Lanza wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:27 pm
Everyone is saying, "Joe, this will take years to finish", to which I say, ok, where am I going? I'm not concerned with how long it takes. The shows will be evergreen, and I'm not going anywhere.
You better get the aesthetic right, pal.

You better steal all the early to mid 90s alt and grunge music and have some commercials interwoven between takes. Also, for Patreon subscribers...Lanza Lens while you wear a leather jacket. brood, and partake in substance abuse.

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Rich Kraetsch
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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Finals, KENTA/Shibata & WWE SummerSlam Review

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:34 pm

Ferrante207 wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:19 pm
Yes, Kashin got murked in pride but he'd still beat the common man's ass.
Are we sure about that though? All he did was get his shit pushed in during any legitimate fight.
Ferrante207 wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:19 pm
Brock, the biggest freak of wrestling couldn't even make the Vikings practice squad.
Hold on a minute though. Dude hadn't played football since high school and very nearly made an NFL roster. That, in of itself, is a tremendous accomplishment. Most guys who live, breath and play football every day of their lives get to where Brock was.

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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Finals, KENTA/Shibata & WWE SummerSlam Review

Post by Danwaka » Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:30 pm

Rich Kraetsch wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:34 pm
Ferrante207 wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:19 pm
Yes, Kashin got murked in pride but he'd still beat the common man's ass.
Are we sure about that though? All he did was get his shit pushed in during any legitimate fight.
I mean, I wouldn't have lasted nearly long enough with a Gracie for said Gracie to get hurt in the process of beating my ass. That alone is a level of toughness and willingness to endure pain that I think most people don't have.

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Rich Kraetsch
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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Finals, KENTA/Shibata & WWE SummerSlam Review

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:33 pm



This is the loss, btw. Can't find a clean video of Kashin's win. The second Kashin stood up he got fucking pulverized. :lol:

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Danwaka
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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Finals, KENTA/Shibata & WWE SummerSlam Review

Post by Danwaka » Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:51 pm

And he not only volunteered for that, he volunteered for a rematch.

To which I say: FUCK THAT.

Combat Sports people are crazy.

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Ferrante207
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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Finals, KENTA/Shibata & WWE SummerSlam Review

Post by Ferrante207 » Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:47 pm

I want Rich to fight Kendo Kashin now.

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Rich Kraetsch
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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Finals, KENTA/Shibata & WWE SummerSlam Review

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:45 pm

Ferrante207 wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:47 pm
I want Rich to fight Kendo Kashin now.
I've been in exactly 0 fights my entire life. I'm sure he and many others can kick my ass.

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BoxingRobes
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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Finals, KENTA/Shibata & WWE SummerSlam Review

Post by BoxingRobes » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:21 am

You all have been very weird about Johnny Gargano's run at the top. It has been legitimately great by any metric. I don't believe anything he's done over the past two years would be anything less than 4*. Every Takeover is a 10K+ house and he's been at the top of like 7 of them.

I get it...they really laid into the storiez aspect and it became overkill at some point...but he's delivered in the ring at an insane rate by any metric. Dave, cagematch, and grappl all basically align with this guy having a ridiculous run of matches at the top in NXT.

You want him to be gone to 205 Live or some other nonsense? I'd rather him wrestle some of these new NXT guys to more four star matches in front of hot crowds, but getting 7m in front of the Smackdown crowd that wants to avoid the parking lot against Lince Dorado is cool, too, I guess.

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Joe Lanza
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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Finals, KENTA/Shibata & WWE SummerSlam Review

Post by Joe Lanza » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:18 am

I either want him out of NXT, or to have some matches that arent hour long epic struggles of survival.

I cant take another program like Ciampa or Cole.

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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Finals, KENTA/Shibata & WWE SummerSlam Review

Post by PrivateRadio87 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:51 pm

I have a day off and the house to myself, and I value an empty kitchen to make breakfast in. This morning I opened the fridge, a fridge compromised by letting my girlfriend do the grocery run, and realized I'd used up most of my preferred omelette accoutrements. There was no way I was going to the store to stock up first, so I start improvising. I run to the shitty bodega across the street that I normally wouldn't trust for anything beyond a loose cigarette and grab a sack of broccoli. I get that in the oven (unconventional breakfast move perhaps, but trust me it's been a huge success) around the same time I get the bacon started. I'm getting a little desperate here now, picking at some remains of kale for leaves that aren't wilted, ripping pieces off of a rotisserie chicken. I just wanted a nice breakfast, there was time now.

The broccoli's starting to look good, so I give it a taste before I'm gonna throw it all in the pan. I start noticing the small bits of yellow. This broccoli tastes like shit. Of course it does. I've been burned by the fucking bodega across the street again. I want vegetables, so I have to think on my feet. I start frantically cutting up cherry tomatoes, I throw some mushrooms I found in the back of the fridge in there. You know how this story ends. My bacon is all burnt up, my eggs cooked unevenly, stiff mushrooms, my breakfast sucks. To top it all off I've got an oven full of trash broccoli. You know what probably would have been good? A modest plate of bacon and eggs.

And that's how I feel about most of the Gargano/Cole trilogy, and much of the NXT main event scene lately. That said, I still ate every bite of my shitty breakfast.
Last edited by PrivateRadio87 on Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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suplexberry
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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Finals, KENTA/Shibata & WWE SummerSlam Review

Post by suplexberry » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:25 pm

I enjoyed that breakfast story.

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Rich Kraetsch
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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Finals, KENTA/Shibata & WWE SummerSlam Review

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:49 pm

That may be the best post we've ever had on this forum. I was reading and at like 5-6 points was like "okay this makes sense" "wait this doesn't make sense" then the hook came and MAN did that make sense.

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