VOW Flagship: Fight for the Fallen, Extreme Rules, EVOLVE & more!

Talk about shows from the Voices of Wrestling podcast network and argue with us here.
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Rich Kraetsch
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VOW Flagship: Fight for the Fallen, Extreme Rules, EVOLVE & more!

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:34 pm

Another packed edition of the VOW Flagship with reviews of all the major shows from last weekend including AEW Fight for the Fallen, WWE Extreme Rules, EVOLVE 131. Additional topics include a brief preview of Dragon Gate's massive Kobe World show and a catch-up on the latest in NJPW's G1 Climax.



MP3: https://audioboom.com/posts/7321238-vow ... e-more.mp3

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Ckkj14
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Re: VOW Flagship: Fight for the Fallen, Extreme Rules, EVOLVE & more!

Post by Ckkj14 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:01 pm

Only at the start of the show but did Rich say Joe grew up a teenager in the 60's! haha not sure Joe picked up on that

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Re: VOW Flagship: Fight for the Fallen, Extreme Rules, EVOLVE & more!

Post by Ckkj14 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:02 pm

Oh and only at the start but think you may have gone early with the Dark Order shout. They've only had one match! Their a good team and the more they wrestle the more they will get over and get the act over.

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Joe Lanza
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Re: VOW Flagship: Fight for the Fallen, Extreme Rules, EVOLVE & more!

Post by Joe Lanza » Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:08 pm

Ckkj14 wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:01 pm
Only at the start of the show but did Rich say Joe grew up a teenager in the 60's! haha not sure Joe picked up on that
I no sold it

Bloodbuzz Bunk
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Re: VOW Flagship: Fight for the Fallen, Extreme Rules, EVOLVE & more!

Post by Bloodbuzz Bunk » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:19 pm

I think the last time there was a planned male on female violence spot in wwe was Roman Reigns spearing Stephanie at WM32( whenever the Dallas one was where Trips inserted himself into the main event scene because everyone tore a muscle or ligament for the safest company in the world).

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Re: VOW Flagship: Fight for the Fallen, Extreme Rules, EVOLVE & more!

Post by suplexberry » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:27 am

I am so fucking over JR burying any company he works for. Happened with NJPW, it's happening with AEW. Doesn't matter how much you pay him. Doesn't matter how good and logical the matches are. You can't teach an old dog new tricks, and apparently this guy cannot call modern matches in a way that accurately sell the promotion he's working for. He can shape up and then quickly fall back into old habits, like making refs out to be stupid or asking for guys to do pinfalls in a match where they're trying to get multiple personalities and various feuds over. On top of this, the company does one (1) chairshot and he goes on Austin's pod to bury it and say it shouldn't be done anymore because yadda yadda Bill Watts. He also talked about teaching Excalibur, who knows the roster inside and out, has done commentary for most of their careers and who has to help JR on every single broadcast of this company. I'm also not a fan of PWG commentary but Excalibur has done a tremendous job carrying a hopeless case in Marvez and JR these three shows.

I will say this: I've been able to relax and just enjoy AEW's first two shows. This latest one, my mind was a little bit on an edge. Like most matches, they went too lost so my focus started drifting. Or they weren't great so I started thinking what they could've done differently. This is admittedly the burden of an overly analytical wrestling fan but it also just speaks to a certain exhaustion that happened to most people during the show.

Not sure where Dark Order needs to go. They are good wrestlers, and I've always liked Evil Uno. They weren't the stars of the threeway and the promos are lackluster. Maybe a normal tag to let them show off their skills? I don't know. I have a sneaking suspicion the next tag they do, it's gonna be the babyfaces that are more over. I actually have that PWG DVD with their match against the Bucks from back in the day, I need to check it out.

The women's division in this company is so weird right now. They got some good people, but none of them have storylines, and the storyline they had going into this show with Allie and Brandi was well-built, only for Brandi to turn heel. Then without giving people any room to breathe, they went into the Kong vs Kong program, which will be dope! but also feel like there's story behind Allie vs Brandi now, or even Bea vs Britt because of the heat the tag match had. Then you got Riho, who they definitely should do something cool with! I guess it's good you've got a lot of things cooking at the same time but I'm not sure they absolutely needed the Kong vs Kong thing *now*. Would've been fine to keep that in your backpocket for TV or the next PPV once they go to TV.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Fight for the Fallen, Extreme Rules, EVOLVE & more!

Post by BlizzardAcolyte » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:23 pm

suplexberry wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:27 am
Not sure where Dark Order needs to go. They are good wrestlers, and I've always liked Evil Uno. They weren't the stars of the threeway and the promos are lackluster. Maybe a normal tag to let them show off their skills? I don't know. I have a sneaking suspicion the next tag they do, it's gonna be the babyfaces that are more over. I actually have that PWG DVD with their match against the Bucks from back in the day, I need to check it out.
Turn them face, of course--they come off so unnatural being heels, and while I've heard that Dos/Stu has done good heel work (in C4, I think), you absolutely need to establish him as the killer and bigger personality on his team before you make him go to the dark side. Get them a mouthpiece too: they're okay as promos overall but that's about as far as they can go if not doing backstage segments where they (particularly Uno) can be themselves better.

Thx to you two as always: you basically talked me into getting Kobe World, and I'll be heading off to watch it right now.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Fight for the Fallen, Extreme Rules, EVOLVE & more!

Post by mlev76 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:15 pm

Pretty good takes on the big three shows last weekend, but Okada/Fale was the worst match I've seen in a considerable number of years from people at that level. Throw out your prelim matches, your shindie stuff and anything seen by less than 100 people. For the champion of the second biggest company in the world and a guy they've pushed in the past as a threat to that champion, it was the absolute biggest piece of shit to come out of any company perhaps in this entire decade. And I blame Sucks Shit Fale for it 100%. I'd rather watch 1996 Yokozuna vs. 1995 Mabel vs. 1993 Giant Gonzalez vs. Any point in his career Great Khali in a pure rules match than watch that disgusting, not trying piece of human garbage wrestle.

He, not the singhs, is the physical equivalent of shitting all over the lid of your toilet seat. HE STINKS.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Fight for the Fallen, Extreme Rules, EVOLVE & more!

Post by Joe Lanza » Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:50 am

mlev76 wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:15 pm
Pretty good takes on the big three shows last weekend, but Okada/Fale was the worst match I've seen in a considerable number of years from people at that level. Throw out your prelim matches, your shindie stuff and anything seen by less than 100 people. For the champion of the second biggest company in the world and a guy they've pushed in the past as a threat to that champion, it was the absolute biggest piece of shit to come out of any company perhaps in this entire decade. And I blame Sucks Shit Fale for it 100%. I'd rather watch 1996 Yokozuna vs. 1995 Mabel vs. 1993 Giant Gonzalez vs. Any point in his career Great Khali in a pure rules match than watch that disgusting, not trying piece of human garbage wrestle.

He, not the singhs, is the physical equivalent of shitting all over the lid of your toilet seat. HE STINKS.
The Singhs's arent actively bad, they just exist and bring nothing whatsoever to the table and it sticks out badly on 205 where everyone is real good. Disappointing because they were great as Jinder sidekicks.

Fale is bad. So he's worse.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Fight for the Fallen, Extreme Rules, EVOLVE & more!

Post by Danwaka » Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:11 am

The Singhs should have been actors / stuntmen. They'd have done great in Bollywood films with over-the-top action scenes.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Fight for the Fallen, Extreme Rules, EVOLVE & more!

Post by Murcatto » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:49 am

Bloodbuzz Bunk wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:19 pm
I think the last time there was a planned male on female violence spot in wwe was Roman Reigns spearing Stephanie at WM32( whenever the Dallas one was where Trips inserted himself into the main event scene because everyone tore a muscle or ligament for the safest company in the world).
Stephanie has taken a few bumps from men at Mania over the years (she went through a table in the HHH vs. Rollins match, Bryan did a tope suicida onto her and several others at WM30) but they always made sure to make it look accidental enough that the faces had plausible deniability. I can't claim to remember much about the HHH vs. Reigns match, but I think it may have been a deal where Roman tried to spear HHH and he moved out of the way at the last second and got Steph instead. Similarly the WM33 bump was Rollins sidestepping HHH who then collided with Steph on the apron

The last planned male-on-female violence spot was Nia Jax in this year's Rumble. I think Meltzer said at the time that WWE felt audiences/sponsors would be less uncomfortable with male violence against large women because it looks like less of a physical mismatch

I'm not exactly clamouring for more of these spots but I think the blanket ban was silly. There are certain circumstances where it can be very effective (e.g. Jericho punching Michaels' wife), the ban led to some very awkward situations and at the end of the day I don't think fans or sponsors are going to jump ship if WWE uses these spots in moderation. It would be a different story if it turns into 1996 ECW, or if they ever do anything like that LU match where Pentagon Jr. beat the shit out of Kairi Sane. But they aren't going to

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Re: VOW Flagship: Fight for the Fallen, Extreme Rules, EVOLVE & more!

Post by Ferrante207 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:24 pm

Chris rock has a good bit on his netflix special about how on demand internet porn turns us into 'sexual autistics' where we can only get hard and get off with very specific things being met. Sex IRL is far from that. I see internet porn as a huge net negative for intimacy. Also not gonna act like I didn't tug it to Mandy Moore on TRL. GREAT INTRO!

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Rich Kraetsch
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Re: VOW Flagship: Fight for the Fallen, Extreme Rules, EVOLVE & more!

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:10 pm

Yo, I didn't know you were a Mandy Moore guy. She is my all-time A-1 celebrity crush.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Fight for the Fallen, Extreme Rules, EVOLVE & more!

Post by Danwaka » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:16 pm

Joe & Rich, when's the next time you guys are doing a Flagship Q&A? I have a Dragon Gate / NJPW question I wanted to ask and maybe get a minute or two of your thoughts on.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Fight for the Fallen, Extreme Rules, EVOLVE & more!

Post by Ferrante207 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:26 pm

Rich Kraetsch wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:10 pm
Yo, I didn't know you were a Mandy Moore guy. She is my all-time A-1 celebrity crush.
When you're a pre-teen you just sorta like whoever is "hot" at the time. Even your boner wants to fit in and is scared to step out of line. I think tween and teen culture is less fall in line now then it was in our youth.

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