VOW Flagship: G1 Climax Blocks, WWE Stomping Grounds & NOAH

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Murcatto
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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Climax Blocks, WWE Stomping Grounds & NOAH

Post by Murcatto » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:35 pm

Re: the juniors in G1 - Devitt entered both the 2010 and 2013 G1s as junior heavyweight champion. He had winning records both years. He was 4-3 in 2010 and 5-4 in 2013. Both of those tournaments featured a lot of parity booking so he actually came pretty close to winning the block both years.

It's not a ton to go on but I think it adds a little bit of weight to the argument that Gedo will book the juniors to at least win more than they lose in this tournament.

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Joe Lanza
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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Climax Blocks, WWE Stomping Grounds & NOAH

Post by Joe Lanza » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:58 pm

armsofsleep wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:34 pm
armsofsleep wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:41 pm
Pretty interesting comparing NOAH's strapping the rocket to Kaito to AJPW's situation with Miyahara. It's easy to forget that most fans thought that at the time, Miyahara might not be ready for the big time. But AJPW's hand was forced and there was really no other option, and it happened to work because Miyahara is a generational talent.

Ultimately NOAH just feels like it has a void right now. Back to the AJPW comparison, when they needed new blood for Kento, Suwama and Doering both came back, and they brought in Shuji Ishikawa. Now Kento has had plenty of time to develop as an ace against fresh opponents AND build up the next generation of guys like Jake Lee and Naoya Nomura. That stopgap of somewhat fresh main event talent helped them give more time to the young guys.

But NOAH doesn't really have that. Go, Sugiura, and Marufuji are all great talents but they've had mostly interrupted stints with the company for a long time. So it feels a little weird for them to pass the torch off to the young guys instantly. Not sure if it's a case of "a whole generation of wrestlers was probably stunted by Suzuki-gun and NJPW" or simply a case of needing to bring in some free agent talent but their current business level was basically years in the making.
Guess I forgot that Kenoh was supposed to be the guy, and his heel turn was mega hot, but then they didn't do anything with him for months and pulled the trigger way too late. Masa Kitamiya could also probably be in that range, where he should've been next up and sort of got bypassed. Not to mention that Nakajima flamed out at first and they just never went back to him even after he's proven to be a guy with star quality.
I think they are giving Nakajima a chance to be as far removed from that run as possible before they ramp him back up. And I think that's smart. When they go back to it (I guess *if*, since who knows, but they should), I think it will work.

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Joe Lanza
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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Climax Blocks, WWE Stomping Grounds & NOAH

Post by Joe Lanza » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:02 pm

Bloodbuzz Bunk wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:37 pm
Ckkj14 wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:25 am
Re - Naito has a slow start in the G1. I went back to see who he faced first 2 nights of the G1 last year. It was matches against Omega and Ishii that I rated both at ****3/4! So not sure that’s a true statement.
Plus the year before that was the Naito v Ibushi G1 match which was Ibushi’s first match since taking off the Tiger Mask W mask. So idk the guys might be out to lunch a little on Naito’s In ring in the G1.
All of the big stars have a great match out of the gate because the first night of each block is loaded. Naito tends to then chug along, beneath the surface, until the final few nights.

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Tigerkinney
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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Climax Blocks, WWE Stomping Grounds & NOAH

Post by Tigerkinney » Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:15 pm

Murcatto wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:35 pm
Re: the juniors in G1 - Devitt entered both the 2010 and 2013 G1s as junior heavyweight champion. He had winning records both years. He was 4-3 in 2010 and 5-4 in 2013. Both of those tournaments featured a lot of parity booking so he actually came pretty close to winning the block both years.

It's not a ton to go on but I think it adds a little bit of weight to the argument that Gedo will book the juniors to at least win more than they lose in this tournament.
2013 G1, Devitt was clearly being groomed to step up from the ace of the Junior Division to being a notable player in the Heavyweight Division, giving him a significant push as the leader of the hot new heel stable (Bullet Club). Who knows how far Devitt could have risen in New Japan, had he not gone to WWE? Would he have an IWGP Heavyweight title run on his resume, seeing that all the BC leaders since Styles, Omega and White all managed to achieve that feat, it's not inconceivable to think that Devitt could have achieved that.

2010 is interesting also, Devitt was brought in as an injury replacement for Naomichi Marufuji but he still managed to put a respectable 4-3 record that included an eye-catching victory over Hiroshi Tanahashi (who by this point had been established as the Ace of New Japan- which would kind of be like Ospreay beating Okada in this years G-1). Thing is they didn't really follow up on it by having Devitt continue to mix it with the heavyweights from that point on. Maybe they just decided not to rebook anything and kept the same results that would have been in place for Marufuji.

The first Junior to have any notable success in the tournament was Koji Kanemoto in 2006. In a 5 man Block, Kanemoto picked up victories over Togi Makabe and Naofumi Yamamoto (now known as Yoshitatsu) and went to a 30 minute time limit draw with Yuji Nagata. It was enough to secure second place in the Block and a semi-final match against Satoshi Kojima.

Bloodbuzz Bunk
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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Climax Blocks, WWE Stomping Grounds & NOAH

Post by Bloodbuzz Bunk » Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:42 am

Joe Lanza wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:02 pm
Bloodbuzz Bunk wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:37 pm
Ckkj14 wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:25 am
Re - Naito has a slow start in the G1. I went back to see who he faced first 2 nights of the G1 last year. It was matches against Omega and Ishii that I rated both at ****3/4! So not sure that’s a true statement.
Plus the year before that was the Naito v Ibushi G1 match which was Ibushi’s first match since taking off the Tiger Mask W mask. So idk the guys might be out to lunch a little on Naito’s In ring in the G1.
All of the big stars have a great match out of the gate because the first night of each block is loaded. Naito tends to then chug along, beneath the surface, until the final few nights.
He doesn’t shut it down more than any other guy imo. He doesn’t have tremendous chemistry with some of the bottom ring guys like Fale and Yoshi-Hashi but excels with chemistry of other lower quality workers like Tama Tonga. So I don’t really think it’s a fair assessment of Naito’s G1s. Dude delivers throughout imo.

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Ckkj14
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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Climax Blocks, WWE Stomping Grounds & NOAH

Post by Ckkj14 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:47 am

Also got very excited hearing Joe talk about G1 prop bets. You know where to find me!

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armsofsleep
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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Climax Blocks, WWE Stomping Grounds & NOAH

Post by armsofsleep » Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:11 pm

Bloodbuzz Bunk wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:42 am
Joe Lanza wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:02 pm
Bloodbuzz Bunk wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:37 pm


Plus the year before that was the Naito v Ibushi G1 match which was Ibushi’s first match since taking off the Tiger Mask W mask. So idk the guys might be out to lunch a little on Naito’s In ring in the G1.
All of the big stars have a great match out of the gate because the first night of each block is loaded. Naito tends to then chug along, beneath the surface, until the final few nights.
He doesn’t shut it down more than any other guy imo. He doesn’t have tremendous chemistry with some of the bottom ring guys like Fale and Yoshi-Hashi but excels with chemistry of other lower quality workers like Tama Tonga. So I don’t really think it’s a fair assessment of Naito’s G1s. Dude delivers throughout imo.
Naito has higher highs than anyone else and I don't get the idea that he "coasts" either, or atleast anymore than any other NJPW top guy. Omega and Tana had worse G1s on average the last two years.

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Ten410
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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Climax Blocks, WWE Stomping Grounds & NOAH

Post by Ten410 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:17 pm

Excellent in depth G1 breakdown and for it's participants. I'm going to be that guy and risk it all by saying this, Taichi will have a great G1. Based in his performances with the two matches with Ishii and the one with Cobb of him limiting the comdey and doing a Kawada tribute act I think he'll be game.

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Goat
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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Climax Blocks, WWE Stomping Grounds & NOAH

Post by Goat » Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:08 pm

I am 100% convinced Ospreay is beating Okada. Their next big show after G1 is Royal Quest in London. Okada is defending the title there. He is the block with 2 Brits. The Sabre match is a 3rd from the top in Ota. The Ospreay match is the main event in Korakuen Hall which is the building that gets the big upset every year. Ospreay is beating Okada and Okada vs Ospreay is the Royal Quest main event.

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yaritaihoudai
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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Climax Blocks, WWE Stomping Grounds & NOAH

Post by yaritaihoudai » Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:54 am

Goat wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:08 pm
I am 100% convinced Ospreay is beating Okada. Their next big show after G1 is Royal Quest in London. Okada is defending the title there. He is the block with 2 Brits. The Sabre match is a 3rd from the top in Ota. The Ospreay match is the main event in Korakuen Hall which is the building that gets the big upset every year. Ospreay is beating Okada and Okada vs Ospreay is the Royal Quest main event.
Does anyone know how well ticket sales are doing for Royal Quest?

They could do Okada vs. Ospreay, for sure. But if they book Okada vs. Sabre, they can have Ospreay in the semi-main defending his Jr. Title vs. El Phantasmo to avenge his other BOSJ loss. Depends on how much they want to/need to stack the card.

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Joe Lanza
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Re: VOW Flagship: G1 Climax Blocks, WWE Stomping Grounds & NOAH

Post by Joe Lanza » Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:04 pm

I always figured Eagles would get his match in Australia, and ELP would yet his at Royal Quest underneath Okada/ZSJ. That seems like the obvious path, and I'm not sure they want to give Will his first shot this soon, but who knows. It wouldnt shock me.

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