VOW Flagship: Moxley on Talk is Jericho & AEW Double or Nothing

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Rich Kraetsch
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VOW Flagship: Moxley on Talk is Jericho & AEW Double or Nothing

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:29 am

Huge VOW Flagship this week talking Moxley on Talk is Jericho, WWE creative issues and AEW's Double or Nothing PPV.



MP3: https://audioboom.com/posts/7277262-vow ... othing.mp3

It's Jon Moxley-Mania this week on the Voices of Wrestling Flagship podcast as we talk about Moxley's much-publicized appearance on Talk is Jericho, take our deserved victory lap and discuss our thoughts on his comments regarding the creative process in WWE.

We then move to the biggest show of last weekend as we review and dissect All Elite Wrestling's Double or Nothing. Reviews of each and every match on the show, our ratings for each match (presented by GRAPPL), thoughts on commentary, production and why one match in particular reinvigorated our love for pro wrestling.

We ran out of time on the main show so if you're looking for our thoughts on NJPW's Best of the Super Juniors tour, Moxley in NJPW and a preview of NXT TakeOver XXV, you'll need to head over to patreon.com/voicesofwrestling and subscribe now for only $2.


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Re: VOW Flagship: Moxley on Talk is Jericho & AEW Double or Nothing

Post by andrewrich » Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:02 am

You don't push up your monocle, you adjust it. And if you're feeling particularly chuffed, you take the monocle off, go "Well I never!" and then angrily put it back in place.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Moxley on Talk is Jericho & AEW Double or Nothing

Post by Ckkj14 » Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:34 am

Rich asking Joe to imagine he's Peyton Royce getting fucked by 10 guy! First time I think Rich has ever made Joe feel uncomfortable!

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Re: VOW Flagship: Moxley on Talk is Jericho & AEW Double or Nothing

Post by supersonic » Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:45 pm

Podcast is unavailable on all platforms, all browsers.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Moxley on Talk is Jericho & AEW Double or Nothing

Post by FilipPejic » Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:53 pm

I’m going to defend Orange Cassidy cause he is blowing up right now and to be fair he has the same Schtick since 2012. He benefited a lot from that one spot in the battle royal. He is all over reddit and twitter being talked about by people you never would think of like Matt Morgan who is mayor in a city Florida. Too be honest he is going to keep making money in this business he is also has been a good worker for years as evident by his work as Fire Ant. So I don’t think his 15 minutes are up in wrestling popularity. But joe is right in he is not the guy to entice people to buy a PPV
Some Guy from Canada that you can follow on twitter @FilipPejic97

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Re: VOW Flagship: Moxley on Talk is Jericho & AEW Double or Nothing

Post by BlizzardAcolyte » Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:00 am

Thank you Joe. (he might or might not know why I'm thanking him, but those on the Patreon might.)

I love how three different podcasts on this network have blasted the AoN pre-show (the J-Cast said the show overall was excellent, but did not specify their thoughts on the pre-show). It has motivated me to seek it out, re-watch it, and preserve it for all time...I WILL make all eight of you fuckers re-watch it, as part of some retrospective, someday.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Moxley on Talk is Jericho & AEW Double or Nothing

Post by throwstuff165 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:15 am

If I'd sat down for a week straight and tried to come up with all the takes I'd hear on this show, I'm not sure I ever would've thought of "I couldn't tell Excalibur and Alex Marvez apart."

Anyway, here's my question about something much more important, although I'm sure y'all will cover it in more detail as All Out approaches: if you have the pencil, as things stand today, who goes over in the Jericho/Page match? I've heard good arguments for both and really can't decide which side I land on.

From a booking perspective, you can obviously do a lot with prick heel Jericho in terms of building up contenders and eventually beating him with one, and it goes without saying that he has the name value and therefore the ability to bring many more eyes to the product in the beginning, but I almost wonder if that's not a little overstated. I've talked to multiple people that are strictly WWE watchers who have literally laughed off the idea of Jericho still being good in 2019, so I almost wonder if putting the belt on him might look a lot like something bad-era TNA would do from the perspective of at least part of the audience they'd presumably be targeting by making him champ. Like, they'll turn on TNT if they hear Jericho is champ, but do the aesthetics of 48-year-old Y2J with a beer gut immediately turn some of them off before they get the chance to see him actually work? If I'm AEW, I don't know if I love the idea of having Jericho in the record books as my first World Champ - feels like a missed opportunity to forge our own identity right off the bat.

The argument against Page winning is that you want him to have that chase. You want to build him up so that his first win feels like a big moment. On the other hand, though, it's not like his first title win will be his last, and I think sometimes (not all the time, but sometimes), that first win can be a little overrated. If he's the champ when TV starts, it's an immediate signal to new viewers that he's a big deal and they need to pay attention to him. There's other ways to accomplish that, though, and they might be taking a risk by leading into TV with an unknown as champ.

Is this just a situation where AEW gauges the kinds of reactions Page gets at Fyter Fest and Fight for the Fallen and makes their decision then?

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Re: VOW Flagship: Moxley on Talk is Jericho & AEW Double or Nothing

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:24 pm

supersonic wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:45 pm
Podcast is unavailable on all platforms, all browsers.
AudioBoom server error. 100% out of our control. Should be fixed now.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Moxley on Talk is Jericho & AEW Double or Nothing

Post by armsofsleep » Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:23 am

Lmaooooooo at the “Chris Jericho is the lucha brawler everyone says LA Park is”

Not only does Chris Jericho suck when he’s not in the ring with Naito, but the main event fucking sucked. Park has had 50 matches better than that just since he’s turned 50. A brawl that felt tame, repeating spots because you cant hit them, no impact at all on your shit, just complete trash. Jericho looked like Shane McMahon level of gassed.

Sorry but you’re just really wrong.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Moxley on Talk is Jericho & AEW Double or Nothing

Post by Danwaka » Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:51 am

I'm kind of with arms here. Jericho hasn't impressed me since leaving the WWE.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Moxley on Talk is Jericho & AEW Double or Nothing

Post by yaritaihoudai » Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:01 am

Park and Jericho are both way overhyped imo, but at least Jericho makes me laugh sometimes and just stands out more for being so stylistically different than all of his opponents. I don't expect his match with Okada to be any five star masterpiece, but at least I can count on it being totally unlike any of Okada's other defenses.

Also, Excalibur is fucking great. I got back into wrestling during the age of the super indy, where every top guy was working every company, but his commentary is what made PWG stand out as my favorite promotion at the time. I'd put him easily in the top three color guys with Cabana and Don Callis.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Moxley on Talk is Jericho & AEW Double or Nothing

Post by BoxingRobes » Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:00 pm

Jericho is 100% the best damn shill in the business. His pivots to hock some sponsor are unrivaled in the world of podcasting. Most podcast hosts begrudgingly put ads in their shit, but Jericho does it because he really loves shilling and does it completely in flow with conversation. Its the standard that all sponsors wish their hosts would do.

Lanza needs to study Talk is Jericho and perfect his shilling.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Moxley on Talk is Jericho & AEW Double or Nothing

Post by mlev76 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:35 pm

Had Moxley stuck with the Jericho podcast and not done the subsequent few other podcasts he's done this week, I would say (and did say elsewhere) that he did a masterful job of getting his feelings out there, selling himself to an audience yearning to hear what he said and wisely not shitting in the wind over everyone in WWE. The more we hear from him, the less inclined I am to feel that way and the more it's starting to come across as grievance repetitiveness. In the end, I hope he's cleansed his soul and now produces some great stuff for AEW, NJPW and wherever else he works.

I wonder what the impact this and the other grievances will have on WWE and if even a solid showing from AEW come fall will hasten a wake up call. The last time Vince had to shift his thinking, he had just turned 50 and was fighting for his company's financial future. That is no longer an issue. WWE will succeed financially for the foreseeable future absent a massive scandal/problem. He's also on the wrong side of 70 and folks at that age are almost uniformly not capable of change. So I tend to see the only hope for a widespread creative change is a network basically telling them they need to change or (and I don't think this is as unimaginable as many would) they get bought out by a bigger conglomerate and the powers that be choose to install someone other than Vince in as head honcho.

Vince right now is very much like the lead character in the HBO show Succession. In all the wrong ways.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Moxley on Talk is Jericho & AEW Double or Nothing

Post by SuperplexlariatBW » Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:44 pm

mlev76 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:35 pm
Had Moxley stuck with the Jericho podcast and not done the subsequent few other podcasts he's done this week, I would say (and did say elsewhere) that he did a masterful job of getting his feelings out there, selling himself to an audience yearning to hear what he said and wisely not shitting in the wind over everyone in WWE. The more we hear from him, the less inclined I am to feel that way and the more it's starting to come across as grievance repetitiveness. In the end, I hope he's cleansed his soul and now produces some great stuff for AEW, NJPW and wherever else he works.

I wonder what the impact this and the other grievances will have on WWE and if even a solid showing from AEW come fall will hasten a wake up call. The last time Vince had to shift his thinking, he had just turned 50 and was fighting for his company's financial future. That is no longer an issue. WWE will succeed financially for the foreseeable future absent a massive scandal/problem. He's also on the wrong side of 70 and folks at that age are almost uniformly not capable of change. So I tend to see the only hope for a widespread creative change is a network basically telling them they need to change or (and I don't think this is as unimaginable as many would) they get bought out by a bigger conglomerate and the powers that be choose to install someone other than Vince in as head honcho.

Vince right now is very much like the lead character in the HBO show Succession. In all the wrong ways.
I don't doubt Moxley had complaints about how his dealings woth the WWE system, but i also think the more he does interviews the more it comes off like this is apart AEW's TNAesque marketiing strategy. Jericho ans Dustin continuing to blab about things makes me think this even more.

I also don't doubt that there are a number of unhappy WWE talents, but I also think hardocorecfans and cetain wrestling media members are overplaying things to some extent. Like I think it sounds ludicrous that only ten or less wrestlers will stay with WWE.

We always hear people push the negatives, but nothing positive like if anybody re-signs witn WWE.

Like weren't people pushing two months ago that the Usos were going to leave?

Why no talk about claims Jim Ross made regarding a lower carder who's in his early 30's and barely on TV renewing for a 500K deal? Why no effort to reveal ths person's identity?

What about Finn Balor? I heard somebody say that Jason Powell reported in last week that Balor recently signed a new contract.

I would also like for more analysis on what negatives AEW signing a bunch of WWE names could bring. Like how would the current AEW roster feel about a dozen or so WWE names coming in over a short period of time, which is what everybody seems to want. This is the type of shit that caused problems in WCW and TNA long term. Wrestlers will lose their spots. Plus, the Pac situstion is an early indication that wrestlers having too much freedom may not always be a good idea and that people from the WWE system have a mind for politicking.

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