VOW Flagship: NOAH Great Voyage, Tanahashi vs Omega WOTY, Gedo & Jado, Thursday TV Reviews

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VOW Flagship: NOAH Great Voyage, Tanahashi vs Omega WOTY, Gedo & Jado, Thursday TV Reviews

Post by Joe Lanza » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:56 pm

A better late than never Flagship this week, as we break down how the Yokohama crowd committed murder on the NOAH Great Voyage show while putting new GHC champ behind the 8-ball, why you are wrong if you think Hiroshi Tanahashi is the Wrestler of the Year and a head-to-head comparison to the obvious winner, a historical streak comes to an end, and a special FREEBIE of the paywall Thursday TV Reviews.


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Re: VOW Flagship: NOAH Great Voyage, Tanahashi vs Omega WOTY, Gedo & Jado, Thursday TV Reviews

Post by armsofsleep » Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:56 am

Cannot fathom how anyone would view Tanahashi as a legit WOTY candidate from a Thesz/Flair perspective. Laid an egg (his fault or not) on the biggest show of the year. The Suzuki match was mediocre, his G1 was pretty ho-hum outside of the money matches, and the Okada match post-G1 was the worst of the entire series. Even if you adore his high end stuff, I simply don’t see it, even if he’s the biggest draw in NJPW.

That being said, if Thesz/Flair really is 50% draw and 50% workrate (which Atleast is how I take it), Kenny is at like a 9.5/10 from a drawing perspective but probably a 6/10 from a workrate perspective. He suffers most from the Ibushi match being sort of shit, with the biggest feathers in his cap probably being way overachieving in the Penta and Fenix matches.

Ultimately, I would probably trade off some of Kenny’s drawing power for a much better wrestler and award Zeus or Miyahara instead. Park and Ishikawa I loved early on but their cases tailed off by the end of the year. Hell, WALTER might be my number 3 and I don’t even love him as a worker.

Almost forgot Takeda who would have to be there for me. I get that he’s a “small fry” but in comparison to NJPW but he had an extremely tangible business effect in both BJW and FREEDOMS over and over, and also main evented Atleast one show for DDT. I even think the Kodaka match is a touch overrated but I think his high end resume might swallow anyone in the world outside of the AJPW main eventers.

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Re: VOW Flagship: NOAH Great Voyage, Tanahashi vs Omega WOTY, Gedo & Jado, Thursday TV Reviews

Post by Ckkj14 » Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:39 am

Absolutely no way you can have Tanahashi as WOTY. Purely from a workrate perspective I'd have the following above him and I've probably missed a few. Ibushi, Omega, ZSJ, Ospreay, Walter, Ishii, Okada and Naito.
For me I don't think we've ever seen a year with the quality of matches that Ibushi has produced. I don't think its being talked enough just about quite how great his 2018 was.

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Re: VOW Flagship: NOAH Great Voyage, Tanahashi vs Omega WOTY, Gedo & Jado, Thursday TV Reviews

Post by mlev76 » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:01 pm

I think the Omega portion made me hate him even more even if I don't really have an argument in opposition.

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Re: VOW Flagship: NOAH Great Voyage, Tanahashi vs Omega WOTY, Gedo & Jado, Thursday TV Reviews

Post by elloziom » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:18 pm

Joe, you've didn't mention Tanahashi-Ibushi match, when you talked about matches that had moty buzz. It literally finished 2nd in super j cast,shu-pro(japanese awards) and Tokyo Sports awards and 5th in post wrestling awards. It was also before the 2nd biggest crowd of the year, but I'm not going to give him credit for it since it sold out in advance.
Here are links to some of the awards:


https://www.postwrestling.com/wp-conten ... f_2018.pdf

Also here is a tweet from evandeadlysins about popularity contest in japan that happened earlier in the year, and as you can see it was a close battle between him and Naito( if I remember Naito won, but not by a wide margin). As I can't find when was Tanahashi vs White announced compared to Omega vs Cody vs Ibushi, I can't dispute the fact that they drew this crowd.


Then again I would also like to mention that I'm probably voting for Kenny for WOTY in my awards. He's got all the business arguements and he's in like 5 of my top 20 matches this year. As for my most outstanding I think I have to go with Ibushi, since he's in like 6 of my top 20 matches and he's got a similar number of awesome matches that I've seen compared to ZSJ/Ospreay. I didn't see a lot of wXw (only Carat and True Colors?? I think) and PWG (only BOLA) stuff so I'm not sure about WALTER in my top 3 , but based on his EVOLVE/OTT/Progress matches I would definitely put him in the top 10.

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Re: VOW Flagship: NOAH Great Voyage, Tanahashi vs Omega WOTY, Gedo & Jado, Thursday TV Reviews

Post by armsofsleep » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:53 pm

The ShuPro poll is another nice get for Takeda. For a guy without a lengthy popular history in Japan, he’s already one of the biggest stars in the entire country. Also worth pointing out in that poll is Marufuji, who has been a HUGE draw this year in multiple promotions.

One thing about something Joe has said in the past, that I do subscribe to, is that sometimes Thesz/Flair is all about what wrestler “defined” 2018. I’d have a hard time giving it to Omega in that case, because he had a much better case last year and NJPW was a hotter product (to me Atleast).

If I’m really gonna go back and think about who owned 2018 five years from now, I’m probably gonna think about Zeus, WALTER, Takeda, and maybe even Suguira more than I ever think about Omega. Not all of that is his fault, as the Golden Lovers and Bullet Club storylines both fizzled out with no payoff (and the latter was garbage from start to finish), but it’s still worth noting. This feels like the first year where NJPW booking really kept guys from standing out or feeling like big stars.

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Re: VOW Flagship: NOAH Great Voyage, Tanahashi vs Omega WOTY, Gedo & Jado, Thursday TV Reviews

Post by Joe Lanza » Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:21 pm

Since everyone is bringing it up, i'll explain why I didn't bring up the G1 final match.

G1 Final sells out before anything is announced, so I always leave it out of things like this. Because it was out of sight, out of mind, and because I personally didn't see the match at that level, I forgot to bring it up. It was an oversight from the perspective of like the Omega/Fenix match that I wasn't super high on, I do concede that others see it much higher than I do.

Didn't bring it up on purpose as a business argument, totally whiffed on it as a great match. My bad.

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Re: VOW Flagship: NOAH Great Voyage, Tanahashi vs Omega WOTY, Gedo & Jado, Thursday TV Reviews

Post by Joe Lanza » Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:25 pm

armsofsleep wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:53 pm
The ShuPro poll is another nice get for Takeda. For a guy without a lengthy popular history in Japan, he’s already one of the biggest stars in the entire country. Also worth pointing out in that poll is Marufuji, who has been a HUGE draw this year in multiple promotions.

One thing about something Joe has said in the past, that I do subscribe to, is that sometimes Thesz/Flair is all about what wrestler “defined” 2018. I’d have a hard time giving it to Omega in that case, because he had a much better case last year and NJPW was a hotter product (to me Atleast).

If I’m really gonna go back and think about who owned 2018 five years from now, I’m probably gonna think about Zeus, WALTER, Takeda, and maybe even Suguira more than I ever think about Omega. Not all of that is his fault, as the Golden Lovers and Bullet Club storylines both fizzled out with no payoff (and the latter was garbage from start to finish), but it’s still worth noting. This feels like the first year where NJPW booking really kept guys from standing out or feeling like big stars.
What's funny about this, is I think the "Who's year was it?" thing might be Omega's strongest argument lol. If someone hates his matches, I could see why that perception might be different.

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Re: VOW Flagship: NOAH Great Voyage, Tanahashi vs Omega WOTY, Gedo & Jado, Thursday TV Reviews

Post by armsofsleep » Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:38 pm

Joe Lanza wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:25 pm
armsofsleep wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:53 pm
The ShuPro poll is another nice get for Takeda. For a guy without a lengthy popular history in Japan, he’s already one of the biggest stars in the entire country. Also worth pointing out in that poll is Marufuji, who has been a HUGE draw this year in multiple promotions.

One thing about something Joe has said in the past, that I do subscribe to, is that sometimes Thesz/Flair is all about what wrestler “defined” 2018. I’d have a hard time giving it to Omega in that case, because he had a much better case last year and NJPW was a hotter product (to me Atleast).

If I’m really gonna go back and think about who owned 2018 five years from now, I’m probably gonna think about Zeus, WALTER, Takeda, and maybe even Suguira more than I ever think about Omega. Not all of that is his fault, as the Golden Lovers and Bullet Club storylines both fizzled out with no payoff (and the latter was garbage from start to finish), but it’s still worth noting. This feels like the first year where NJPW booking really kept guys from standing out or feeling like big stars.
What's funny about this, is I think the "Who's year was it?" thing might be Omega's strongest argument lol. If someone hates his matches, I could see why that perception might be different.
Yeah I certainly don’t “hate” his matches but the only stuff I would consider MOTYC material are the Ishii matches, the Goto match, and most of the Golden Lovers tags. So he has a strong case with his superb drawing record but he’s just a shade out of my top tier of contenders. And I’ll admit that it’s mainly because his schtick and main event style is just so far opposite of my workrate taste. Plus I was super hyped for the Ibushi match and it let me down a lot

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Re: VOW Flagship: NOAH Great Voyage, Tanahashi vs Omega WOTY, Gedo & Jado, Thursday TV Reviews

Post by SamoKuma » Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:13 am

As a member of la majorité silencieuse, Joe, I thank You.

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Re: VOW Flagship: NOAH Great Voyage, Tanahashi vs Omega WOTY, Gedo & Jado, Thursday TV Reviews

Post by yaritaihoudai » Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:25 am

I was also buying into the hype of Omega having a disappointing year, but when you lay everything out it's surprising how much is there. Excellent MOTYCs vs. Okada, Ishii, and Naito. Great matches vs. Jericho, Goto, Ibushi, Ishii again, Pentagon, and Fenix. Good matches vs. White, Page, and Sabre. His matches with Cody, even if they weren't great, were watchable enough for the story-driven fluff they were going for. His main event tag work vs. the Bucks, Okada/Ishii, Ishii/Ospreay, and Tanahashi/Ospreay was all great to excellent.

Walter seems to have the closest shot out of anyone. Awesome matches vs. Thatcher, Dragonov, Devlin, Ospreay, and Sabre. I watched all of those out of pure buzz. Going to check out some more of his stuff this week, since I have time off. I'm marathoning BOLA and the PWG show after it this weekend, and I'll check out some more of his wXw and Progress work, as I haven't had time to keep up with either of those this year.

I've seen five great Takeda matches this year. Quality wise Takeda's best is as good or better than Omega's, but I don't really follow BJW or FREEDOMS on a show by show basis, so I don't know if he really has the high-end volume to match Omega's year.

I can't see Zeus or Miyahara having much of a case. Both guys peaked high (esp. their second match vs. each other), but Zeus' wet-fart of a Championship Carnival kind of disqualifies him for me. Miyahara laid some eggs during CC, too (looking at you Ryoji Sai), though he picked up near the end leading into a great final. I haven't seen their tag league yet, but the MIyahara/YoshiTatsu team doesn't exactly set my world on fire, so can't imagine it doing much to bolster his resume. The AJPW guys I think are hurt by having an unimpressive midcard full of over the hill guys and indy scrubs, so the potential to have awesome matches are limited to only a handful of guys. Plus, from what I've read, business seems to have been disappointing this year.

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Re: VOW Flagship: NOAH Great Voyage, Tanahashi vs Omega WOTY, Gedo & Jado, Thursday TV Reviews

Post by Joe Lanza » Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:08 pm

I sold Golden Lovers short on the show. They worked 8 NJPW main events (9 overall).

I also never brought up All In, because that was going to sell out anyway, but it should be noted that based on the way they announced the card, Omega/Pentagon was clearly the intended main event. And that was another match where Omega delivered.

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Re: VOW Flagship: NOAH Great Voyage, Tanahashi vs Omega WOTY, Gedo & Jado, Thursday TV Reviews

Post by HeadCheese » Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:31 pm

Is everything Joe, I think you pronounced hi69 as Hiroki.

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