I appreciate your Takeda enthusiasm, but while I've loved two of his matches and really liked one or two others, his resume isn't nearly as deep as the top line NJPW players so I think "super easily" is kind of pushing it. I'll have him in the second half of my in ring top ten I think.armsofsleep wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:30 pmIn-ring, Riddle is sort of disqualified for me after having one meaningful match over the last four months of the year. I've liked a lot of Ibushi's stuff (the Naito match being his only real MOTYC but I think the Ishii G1 match was also stellar). I just figured his in-ring resume was a little more divisive then "every credible top 5 list will have him on there".mlev76 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:25 pmIbushi had a phenomenal in ring year. I'm not sure what "WOTY" poll the guys were referring to, but by in ring alone,I'd have both guys in my top five with Omega, Riddle and Walter.armsofsleep wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:17 pmIbushi and Ospreay........ two guys who would be in the top 5 of any credible wrestler of the year poll
Now, besides not really viewing either guys as top 5 locks (I don't think either would make my top 20), what makes Ibushi a super mega lock? Atleast Ospreay I can get it if you like his UK stuff and really factor in drawing power a lot. I mean, even among NJPW super fans, Ibushi would have to be behind Omega, Tanahashi, Okada, and Ospreay right? And that's if you really really love his in-ring resume, because he hasn't even held a title this year, so his drawing power isn't exactly something to hang your hat on.
And all of this is basically with the qualification that you basically have to be obsessed with NJPW to even think like that. I mean, Takeda has a better in-ring resume than anyone in NJPW, super easily, and he headlined for multiple companies. Same for Ishikawa. And even if you count business, AJPW's business is probably strong enough to atleast seriously consider Zeus and Miyahara, who had a match together that is probably better than any match produced by NJPW all year.
It's obviously all up to opinion, but it's why I don't really like the idea of "any credible person will include these two guys" type of grand proclamation.
I have no idea which Zeus/Miyahara match you are talking about, definitely not the first one. The second one was very good, but jeez, I'd have it behind at least a half dozen NJPW bouts I think off the top of my head (conservatively). Also AJPW has flatlined, it hasn't been a good year for them at all, even Akiyama made mention of needing to bounce back, the Zeus thing didn't even spark Osaka above usual levels.
I think Ishikawa has had a down year by his standards and he wont sniff any of my lists.
This exemplifies variance in opinion, but again, this was all started by a flippant comment not meant to be declarative that while sure, it could be countered, at the same time I don't think it was wildly controversial. I didn't say Juice & Cody, ffs.