VOW Flagship: Dominion Review, Okada/Omega, MITB, NXT & more!

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VOW Flagship: Dominion Review, Okada/Omega, MITB, NXT & more!

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:59 pm

A packed (and ad-free!) edition of the Voices of Wrestling Flagship podcast with topics including NJPW Dominion 6.9 review, our thoughts and ratings on Kazuchika Okada vs. Kenny Omega IV, women in New Japan Pro Wrestling, NJPW's Cow Palace card and currently ticket sales, NJPW's Strong Style Evolved UK cards and some of our anticipated matches as well as preview for WWE's Money in the Bank weekend including NXT TakeOver: Chicago and WWE Money in the Bank 2018.

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armsofsleep
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Re: VOW Flagship: Dominion Review, Okada/Omega, MITB, NXT & more!

Post by armsofsleep » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:15 pm

As someone who listens every week and still tweets about the dumb stuff you guys say (atleast I also come into the forums to talk about it, I'm not a total coward) I wouldn't take it too seriously. The podcast is just another part of the endless stream of banter, and atleast you guys are getting paid for it. Part of the fun is spamming LA Park memes or giving Okada vs Omega ****1/4 and having people get mad at you for it. That's sort of the best part of wrestling in many ways. Someone once told me that Joe thought I hated him because of my tweets about how dumb so and so take was and I felt super bad because it's basically just how I approach wrestling: by telling other people their taste in it is bad.


Edit: I can't with the "Velveteen Dream" is the most overrated wrestler in the world right now. I'm not sure about the bubble or whatever but reminder that there is a sect of fan that counts Cody and Scurll among the greatest in-ring guys in the world. There are people who think Adam Cole is a BITW candidate! Some people on this very website think Flip Gordon is good!

He reminds me of like a Charlotte from 2 years ago. Can put together an awesome match, but if something goes wrong, he gets lost quickly. That's just being green really. He'll be fine. He's had better matches already then some more hyped guys have had over their entire career.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Dominion Review, Okada/Omega, MITB, NXT & more!

Post by BoxingRobes » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:27 pm

Japanese culture is different than American or Western society...despite Western (Dutch) Influence during the Meiji period and American influence following World War II. Need to stop forcing Western/American ideas down every culture's/societies throat.

NJPW isn't forced to integrate and twitter dorks should stop forcing their ideas onto organizations.

Onna dakara.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Dominion Review, Okada/Omega, MITB, NXT & more!

Post by rollup » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:44 pm

you guys touched on a point with regard to japan : Tokyo/Yokohma is spoiled for wrestling. Whether it is death matches , women's wrestling , shoot style , on a weekly / monthly basis you can get your fill. How much novelty is there to have women on your card when next day/week another joshi promotion is running in the same building/area

and i chuckle when twitter do the"thats how thing are done in my country so the rest of the world must follow" nonsense

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Re: VOW Flagship: Dominion Review, Okada/Omega, MITB, NXT & more!

Post by HeadCheese » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:25 am

Boy, the online conversation about Sea Food Pro Wrestling is just the best.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Dominion Review, Okada/Omega, MITB, NXT & more!

Post by Ckkj14 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:22 am

Did you forget about Bucks v Golden Lovers when you said Evil & Sanada v Young Bucks was the best tag match you've seen this year? I loved the match at Dominion but the Golden Lovers match blew it away.

Also is Nick Jackson a top 10 wrestler in the world. It struck me at Dominion that this guy does all this crazy shit and I can't remember ever seeing him botch a move. He's insanely good

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Re: VOW Flagship: Dominion Review, Okada/Omega, MITB, NXT & more!

Post by armsofsleep » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:37 pm

I'll still take Higuchi/Sekimoto vs HARASHIMA/Marufuji over any other tag match in the year (also probably that AJPW tag from 1/3) but even in NJPW, give me the second R3K vs Bucks match over anything else. Bucks vs Lovers was awesome (if a bit too cute for my mind) and Bucks vs LIJ was tight (loved the abbreviated length) but R3K vs Bucks II was had the best balance of drama and psychology.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Dominion Review, Okada/Omega, MITB, NXT & more!

Post by viking804 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:53 pm

The best performer in the Gargano/Ciampa feud since New Orleans has been Candice.

If they felt like they needed a rematch and neither of them are getting called up until next year, they probably should have had Ciampa beat Almas for the title. Just to give this match SOMETHING different.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Dominion Review, Okada/Omega, MITB, NXT & more!

Post by Lawsoncomedy » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:32 pm

Rich saying, "I wanna see Dakota Kai vs Shayna", I think that's the point. Nikki Cross is getting her Takeover singles match that she's never had, but the long term plans point to Dakota, imo.

Also, just let people have their Velveteen Dream fun. He's the closest thing to a promising young boy that exists in WWE, to me it's no different than everyone being amped up about Kitamura or Shota Umino. Joe asked, "Why do we do this?" and to me it's cause it's fun. Sure, maybe he'll never amount to a mega star, but MAYBE he could which is more than you can say for most of WWE's homegrowns.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Dominion Review, Okada/Omega, MITB, NXT & more!

Post by mlev76 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:37 pm

I can only speak for my perspective, but one the talking points that you sort of alluded to is women on New Japan shows in the US. I think if the goal is to make New Japan a global company, not specific to Japan, then adding a woman's division is a good idea. Not an obligation, but when you look at other companies that exist that try to touch multiple regions of the world (WWE, TNA, ROH, Progress), they all have both men's and women's divisions. It's less about forcing current joshi promotions to subsume themselves to NJPW, but to give New Japan another way to broaden their audience outside Japan.

Okada/Omega to me felt in many ways like Hart/Michaels from Mania 12. Not in match quality, but in the gimmick making it harder to enjoy the match as much as I would if it had been just a straight one fall match. The third fall was the most compelling by leaps and bounds and if that had been the only fall, I think I would have thought it to be as great as so many say it was. I still think the WK match was better.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Dominion Review, Okada/Omega, MITB, NXT & more!

Post by rovert » Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:53 am

Definitely with Joe on Ciampa/Gargano. This site has been Gargano fans well before it was cool. But yeah Tommaso and Johnny might as well be fighting in the woods with Sami Callihan and Eddie Edwards at this stage.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Dominion Review, Okada/Omega, MITB, NXT & more!

Post by BoxingRobes » Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:35 pm

I think you're really killing Velveteen Dream to the point your take is cold because its clear hyperbole.

Not even GOOD? C'mon.

I think you need to listen back to yourself and realize your killing a 22 year old wrestler with like 200 matches under his belt, very few televised matches, whose only real valid criticisms you have of the guy are he botches sometimes and he runs out of ideas in long form matches.

If this was Shota Umino out there having that Aleister Black match or did what he did during the ladder match, that excellent Johnny Gargano match from January, the Ricochet match before it becomes a Lars Sullivan vehicle with the run in, a solid TV match v Tyler Bate and Lio Rush you'd be jizzing yourself.

Is he young and flawed...OF COURSE...but not even good? Get lost, pal.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Dominion Review, Okada/Omega, MITB, NXT & more!

Post by Joe Lanza » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:54 pm

I'll cop to some hyperbole from time to time. You try to avoid it but it's impossible when you're shooting from the hip sometimes.

With that said, tbf, if there were people ranking your comparison point, Shots Umino, in the Top 50 wrestlers in the world for 2017, I'd call him overrated just the same. But nobody is doing that. Of course, this could just be a bubble thing and I'm ranting against fringe minorities. I'll cop to doing that from time to time, too.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Dominion Review, Okada/Omega, MITB, NXT & more!

Post by Danwaka » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:49 pm

I don't disagree that the WWE fans who engage the NJPW fans seem to want someone to hang their hat on. I don't think mlev or people like him care all that much, but that sentiment does seem to exist online (as opposed to the arenas). That said, Joe definitely went overboard with Velveteen. To comp to Umino, we have people go on about him all the time calling him a future ace. I don't mind it when people pop for either guy or any other guys, even when it gets silly.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Dominion Review, Okada/Omega, MITB, NXT & more!

Post by BoxingRobes » Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:34 am

Joe Lanza wrote:I'll cop to some hyperbole from time to time. You try to avoid it but it's impossible when you're shooting from the hip sometimes.

With that said, tbf, if there were people ranking your comparison point, Shots Umino, in the Top 50 wrestlers in the world for 2017, I'd call him overrated just the same. But nobody is doing that. Of course, this could just be a bubble thing and I'm ranting against fringe minorities. I'll cop to doing that from time to time, too.
This man just wore PRINCE PUMA pants for this match.

The man is underrated.

Seriously though, I am curious if you could name five wrestlers all-time that have a better match quality resume than Dream @ 22 years old...and I will fully agree with you on your actual criticisms...because he does have a habit of botching and he does lose steam after about 10 minutes. But he offsets that with a mastery of his character that is incredibly rare for anyone at any age. He's got a lot of the little things down that is simply missing in many WWE wrestlers today.

edit

...and then he goes out there and has an excellent match versus Ricochet.

TAP OUT LANZA

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