VOW Flagship: BOSJ Finals, Dominion, Lucha Talk, Punk & All-In

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Rich Kraetsch
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VOW Flagship: BOSJ Finals, Dominion, Lucha Talk, Punk & All-In

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:59 pm

This week on a loaded episode of the Voices of Wrestling flagship podcast Joe and Rich review NJPW's Best of the Super Juniors 25 finals, consider the star-making performance for Hiromu Takahashi and what's next for Taiji Ishimori. We also do an extensive preview of NJPW Dominion 6.9 in Osaka-Jo Hall, why we are cautiously optimistic about the Omega/Okada main event and the brilliance of Chris Jericho.

Other topics include an insane 10-man lucha tag (embed below), worker power in Mexico, LA Park as a Wrestler of the Year contender and more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emO54el-Dnc

Last but not least, our thoughts on the CM Punk/Colt Cabana vs. Amann trial, what it means for our podcast and the continued speculation around CM Punk and All In.

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Re: VOW Flagship: BOSJ Finals, Dominion, Lucha Talk, Punk & All-In

Post by mlev76 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:17 pm

The "5+ stars" thing is silly either way you fall on it, but I feel like there is some benefit to not monkeying with a system to make regular exceptions. I'm not quite sure that upping the star total really does a great job of differentiating a 1985 5 star match from a 2018 one. In general, I think people get that overall, the work in modern matches has vastly improved just as the quality of strength, speed and agility have improved in straight sports. Changing the system of evaluation is less effective imho than just explaining in concise language why 'this' five star match is historically great or better than other time periods.

In terms of the 'upgrade' conversation, not sure it counts since neither man ever did don the character, but the original choices for Big Van Vader were Jim Helwig and Sid Eudy. Leon White was a massive upgrade.

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Re: VOW Flagship: BOSJ Finals, Dominion, Lucha Talk, Punk & All-In

Post by Danwaka » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:31 pm

Think I'm gonna give this one a skip, guys. Jumping and freezing too much.

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Re: VOW Flagship: BOSJ Finals, Dominion, Lucha Talk, Punk & All-In

Post by Bloodbuzz Bunk » Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:48 am

Regarding Omega v Okada IV; I totally agree that the no time limit stip is the biggest concern. I could see Omega pulling a Danielson and trying to get to 2 hours just to prove that he can and none of us want anything to do with that. I’m praying it’s 65-75 overall minutes wise and that the the falls are spread throughout and not piled on after 60 minutes pass.

The 2 our of 3 stip is 1000% gonna work imo. Whoever gets that first fall( and the manner in which they get it) is gonna be able to put their brand of “cocky as all hell, mannerisms” all over the second fall, the loser of the first fall will gave all kinds of self doubt and baggage creep in and be able to play desperate and scared so superbly. The whole thing feels like it’s gonna play out like a 7 game series in baseball/basketball/hockey in one match.

PS I’m terrified that if Okada gets the first fall he might just sweep Omega.

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Re: VOW Flagship: BOSJ Finals, Dominion, Lucha Talk, Punk & All-In

Post by MobbVanDam » Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:23 pm

WHERE'S HEADSTRONG

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Re: VOW Flagship: BOSJ Finals, Dominion, Lucha Talk, Punk & All-In

Post by Ferrante207 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:46 pm

Based on Rich's "theory of star rating progress" I went backed and watched two matches back to back. The 1st was my favorite light heavyweight style match as a kid, at the time I was blown away. Rey Misterio Jr. vs. Ultimato Dragon from WCW WW3 1996 and
Ricochet vs. Will Ospreay from last year's BOSJ. It's night and day. Rey vs Ultimo Dragon would be a solid 4 star BOSJ random match. You could even probably go in the 3.5/3.75 range.

I could probably find 5-6 matches from the 2018 tourney that are better if you strip away nostalgia and respect for Ultimo and Rey.

As a basketball guy, Rich must know that comparing eras gets tricky. As Eric Bischoff says "context is key". You could even make the same "training, nutrition, recovery" argument for wrestling. All the top guys in the NBA now are basketball nerds that want to be the greatest. The wrestlers of today aren't out blowing coke, binge drinking, and chasing groupies. They are doing hot/cold baths, foam rolling, and watching tape for the layout of their next match. The social media feedback machine may also play a role. Even a site like this probably drives wrestlers to be better. You can tell Lance Archer craves Joe's approval.

Cubs fan, Viper, or the lucha talk boys should put together a "lucha for western fans" mixtape every few months. There's so much shit to wade through to get the prestige.

Double J is like the unofficial mascot of VOW nation. God bless Double J.

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Re: VOW Flagship: BOSJ Finals, Dominion, Lucha Talk, Punk & All-In

Post by suplexberry » Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:25 am

The thing about Punk is that he's known for cutting people off and out of his life. Usually for good. I suspect the same thing may apply for parts of his life. He's cut out wrestling - and at least some of the people involved in that part of his life. That's his choice, good or bad, justified or unjustified, but when he says "I don't want to do that anymore" because of that history, I do believe him. If I'm wrong, so be it, because that means that whatever spark there was for wrestling may not be totally gone, and that's great. In all honesty my theory can't explain why he's doing the PWT signing. Easy money, perhaps? I hav no clue how much UFC is paying him.

The Mike Jackson jokes were low key super funny.

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Re: VOW Flagship: BOSJ Finals, Dominion, Lucha Talk, Punk & All-In

Post by mlev76 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:31 pm

suplexberry wrote:The thing about Punk is that he's known for cutting people off and out of his life. Usually for good. I suspect the same thing may apply for parts of his life. He's cut out wrestling - and at least some of the people involved in that part of his life. That's his choice, good or bad, justified or unjustified, but when he says "I don't want to do that anymore" because of that history, I do believe him. If I'm wrong, so be it, because that means that whatever spark there was for wrestling may not be totally gone, and that's great. In all honesty my theory can't explain why he's doing the PWT signing. Easy money, perhaps? I hav no clue how much UFC is paying him.

The Mike Jackson jokes were low key super funny.
He's had a store at PWT this entire time, so it's possible that between the Bucks, Cody and them, it was an easy favor/payday to cash in on. Not sure how last night falls on the spectrum of "spectacular loss/win" or middle of the road with regard to All In. I'd guess unless he takes Corey Graves up on the twitter war Graves seems to be itching for, he'll probably lay low for the time being and still appear.

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Re: VOW Flagship: BOSJ Finals, Dominion, Lucha Talk, Punk & All-In

Post by suplexberry » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:15 pm

Finally made it to the end of the show.

Rich! You should have gotten that ride with a bunch of luchadors! Live a little, man.

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Re: VOW Flagship: BOSJ Finals, Dominion, Lucha Talk, Punk & All-In

Post by FilipPejic » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:37 pm

Listening to this podcast after dominion feels kind of weird especially since a lot of your guys predictions for the majority of the card the complete opposite happened.
Some Guy from Canada that you can follow on twitter @FilipPejic97

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Re: VOW Flagship: BOSJ Finals, Dominion, Lucha Talk, Punk & All-In

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:22 pm

They don't pay us to be right.

Or pay us at all, now that you mention it!

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Re: VOW Flagship: BOSJ Finals, Dominion, Lucha Talk, Punk & All-In

Post by BoxingRobes » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:48 pm

I've listened to the last two podcasts after the big events you guys were previewing...

The laughs are plentiful.

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Re: VOW Flagship: BOSJ Finals, Dominion, Lucha Talk, Punk & All-In

Post by Lawsoncomedy » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:03 pm

That lucha tag though, what the fuck even. It's gotta be the best match I ever saw where I didn't know who the guys involved were.

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Re: VOW Flagship: BOSJ Finals, Dominion, Lucha Talk, Punk & All-In

Post by Frank Olson » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:07 am

Listening to the Dominion preview a few days after actually watching Dominion was worth it just to hear Joe's Gedo impersonation

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