VOW Flagship: BOSJ, MLW/ROH TV, Squirrel Meat & more!

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VOW Flagship: BOSJ, MLW/ROH TV, Squirrel Meat & more!

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:44 pm

This week on the Voices of Wrestling Flagship Podcast Joe and Rich talk NJPW's Best of the Super Juniors tournament, potential winners and our thoughts on each tournament participant.

The Lanza TV Reviews are free this week as Joe and Rich chat about MLW and Ring of Honor Television. Additional topics including AJPW's recent huge main event between Marufuji and Miyahara, NOAH attendance spikes and, of course, twitter burner accounts and squirrel meat.

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Re: VOW Flagship: BOSJ, MLW/ROH TV, Squirrel Meat & more!

Post by armsofsleep » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:40 pm

Still going through but I really do have to disagree on Taiji Ishimori "working" so far as Bone Soldier. I was never a MASSIVE fan or anything but he was atleast serviceable in some roles in NOAH. I think he's been as interesting as dirt so far, and post-BOSJ the reactions he gets will die down. His best singles match was probably the Ospreay match, and that was a ***1/4 special for me. It'll be interesting to see how he performs in a big main event title match (which we know is happening) but he's been a huge disappointment so far.

I said this last week (I think here or on Twitter) but I think Ospreay is at his best when he's with guys that push him out of his comfort zone. I liked the YOH match, I enjoyed the ACH match, but I just could not care less about his standard NJPW formula at this point. When he's wrestling a Scurll or whoever the fuck he just settles into a really vanilla boring style. Hell, that's what works about the Riddle matches too, that he's able to change up the way he works a lot.

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Re: VOW Flagship: BOSJ, MLW/ROH TV, Squirrel Meat & more!

Post by Bloodbuzz Bunk » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:56 pm

I’m gonna disagree on Marty Scrull to a degree. He definitely took it easy in last half of the year of ROH when his push stalled out but I think he has been super consistent in NJPW. Granted you aren’t getting 4.5+ matches out of him( barring the Ospreay match) but that dude is reliable 3.5-4 star guy in the BOSJ to me. I think he has freshened his move set up enough to not be stale while still keeping the finger breaking, superkick fakeout, and the ass spinning chain wrestling spots that he has done for years. I think he has had a better tournament than everybody minus Ospreay, Sho, Hiromu, Dragon Lee, and Desperado.

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Re: VOW Flagship: BOSJ, MLW/ROH TV, Squirrel Meat & more!

Post by armsofsleep » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:03 pm

Bloodbuzz Bunk wrote:I’m gonna disagree on Marty Scrull to a degree. He definitely took it easy in last half of the year of ROH when his push stalled out but I think he has been super consistent in NJPW. Granted you aren’t getting 4.5+ matches out of him( barring the Ospreay match) but that dude is reliable 3.5-4 star guy in the BOSJ to me. I think he has freshened his move set up enough to not be stale while still keeping the finger breaking, superkick fakeout, and the ass spinning chain wrestling spots that he has done for years. I think he has had a better tournament than everybody minus Ospreay, Sho, Hiromu, Dragon Lee, and Desperado.
It's interesting how divisive this BOSJ seems to be in many ways, I wouldn't have a single Scurll match from this tour above ***1/4.

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Re: VOW Flagship: BOSJ, MLW/ROH TV, Squirrel Meat & more!

Post by Bloodbuzz Bunk » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:10 pm

armsofsleep wrote:
Bloodbuzz Bunk wrote:I’m gonna disagree on Marty Scrull to a degree. He definitely took it easy in last half of the year of ROH when his push stalled out but I think he has been super consistent in NJPW. Granted you aren’t getting 4.5+ matches out of him( barring the Ospreay match) but that dude is reliable 3.5-4 star guy in the BOSJ to me. I think he has freshened his move set up enough to not be stale while still keeping the finger breaking, superkick fakeout, and the ass spinning chain wrestling spots that he has done for years. I think he has had a better tournament than everybody minus Ospreay, Sho, Hiromu, Dragon Lee, and Desperado.
It's interesting how divisive this BOSJ seems to be in many ways, I wouldn't have a single Scurll match from this tour above ***1/4.
That’s so true. I feel very bleh about all of the A Block in general and some people really seem to love all that stuff. It’s nuts, this is a loaded tournament talent wise but I sorta feel that the tournament is missing the steady hands of Ricochet and Liger. Both of those guys are consistent in a way that a lot the guys thus aren’t.

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Re: VOW Flagship: BOSJ, MLW/ROH TV, Squirrel Meat & more!

Post by armsofsleep » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:13 pm

Bloodbuzz Bunk wrote:
armsofsleep wrote:
Bloodbuzz Bunk wrote:I’m gonna disagree on Marty Scrull to a degree. He definitely took it easy in last half of the year of ROH when his push stalled out but I think he has been super consistent in NJPW. Granted you aren’t getting 4.5+ matches out of him( barring the Ospreay match) but that dude is reliable 3.5-4 star guy in the BOSJ to me. I think he has freshened his move set up enough to not be stale while still keeping the finger breaking, superkick fakeout, and the ass spinning chain wrestling spots that he has done for years. I think he has had a better tournament than everybody minus Ospreay, Sho, Hiromu, Dragon Lee, and Desperado.
It's interesting how divisive this BOSJ seems to be in many ways, I wouldn't have a single Scurll match from this tour above ***1/4.
That’s so true. I feel very bleh about all of the A Block in general and some people really seem to love all that stuff. It’s nuts, this is a loaded tournament talent wise but I sorta feel that the tournament is missing the steady hands of Ricochet and Liger. Both of those guys are consistent in a way that a lot the guys thus aren’t.
Totally agree on that, especially Liger. People shit on having old hands there, but IMO Liger basically just churned out ***1/2+ quality work which is more than can be said for hyped guys this year like Flip or Chris Sabin.

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Re: VOW Flagship: BOSJ, MLW/ROH TV, Squirrel Meat & more!

Post by armsofsleep » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:35 pm

I won't pull the quote tweet action, I'll keep this burial in the safe space of the forums............................ but the lucha takes re: Rush vs Park are probably the worst single flagship opinion I've ever heard since Joe said Ospreay was the best wrestler of the year. Despy vs Hiromu was fine, but I think pretty much every Park vs Rush match is miles and miles and miles above it. It wasn't even close to touching an actually great lucha brawl.



Edit:

Nevermind I got to Joe's take on maestro lucha. Buddy I'm going to call all my troll friends to your mentions and kick your ass pal.


Anyways, if you are trying to get flippy lucha that Rich might like, I assume you guys have seen this but still:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emO54el ... JRPSX&t=0s

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Re: VOW Flagship: BOSJ, MLW/ROH TV, Squirrel Meat & more!

Post by Danwaka » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:22 pm

Goat for tacos is eh. It's much more of a stew or long cook food. If you ever make your way out to the Middle East (lol, fat chance), I'll treat you to some Mansaf.

As for squirrel, it's a high protein food, a good source of iron, niacin and vitamin B6, as well as an excellent source of vitamin B12, the downside is that it's also a high-cholesterol food source. Good for jerky, I think. Frying critters like that doesn't really work, IIRC. They're far better as stew meats where gamey or tough meat can be better utilized.

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Re: VOW Flagship: BOSJ, MLW/ROH TV, Squirrel Meat & more!

Post by Leo C » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:54 pm

I'm not sure if the announcers mention that NOSAWA is BTVII, but I'm sure the angle is that everybody knows it's him. Okada kept attacking BTVII backstage during the build to Evolution/IGF, and I remember once Tiger saying in a promo something like "NOSAWA - ah fuck, my bad, Black Tiger VII" when referring to himself.

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Re: VOW Flagship: BOSJ, MLW/ROH TV, Squirrel Meat & more!

Post by Ferrante207 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:54 pm

C'mon Joe, pronounce my name right. You're Italian! It's like Elena Ferrante the famous novelist. Finally made it to Sloan territory. Also, how dare you besmirch sweet baby rays. Have other companies attempted Noah's tiered ticketing system? This seems like something for the wrestlenomics folks to tackle.

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Re: VOW Flagship: BOSJ, MLW/ROH TV, Squirrel Meat & more!

Post by ceftaxias » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:15 pm

good god almighty L.A. Park and Kushida vs. Sho discussed back to back. a double whammy if there ever was one

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Re: VOW Flagship: BOSJ, MLW/ROH TV, Squirrel Meat & more!

Post by Joe Lanza » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:23 pm

armsofsleep wrote:I won't pull the quote tweet action, I'll keep this burial in the safe space of the forums............................ but the lucha takes re: Rush vs Park are probably the worst single flagship opinion I've ever heard since Joe said Ospreay was the best wrestler of the year. Despy vs Hiromu was fine, but I think pretty much every Park vs Rush match is miles and miles and miles above it. It wasn't even close to touching an actually great lucha brawl.



Edit:

Nevermind I got to Joe's take on maestro lucha. Buddy I'm going to call all my troll friends to your mentions and kick your ass pal.


Anyways, if you are trying to get flippy lucha that Rich might like, I assume you guys have seen this but still:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emO54el ... JRPSX&t=0s
"This is your worst take since last week" is exactly the kind of feedback I respect. Fist bump.

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Re: VOW Flagship: BOSJ, MLW/ROH TV, Squirrel Meat & more!

Post by Joe Lanza » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:27 pm

I don't remember what I said about Park, so I might be repeating myself, but I like Park. In fact I just praised him a few weeks ago for being awesome in New Orleans and how happy I was to check him off my bucket list of legends.

Rush is super charismatic and a great heel, but I think he kinda stinks. While the Park/Rush matches don't do a ton for me, I can't say I hate them. The trios match that led to the angle wasn't good. If they go through with the mask/hair, there's no way I'd miss that.

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Re: VOW Flagship: BOSJ, MLW/ROH TV, Squirrel Meat & more!

Post by ceftaxias » Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:40 pm

I wouldn't pester anyone for not being into a style of wrestling and certainly not lucha or grapplefuck, defending your stance shouldn't have to be anything more than "it's not for me."

The part about pretending to like grappling because you feel you should doesn't really compute with me, even though you guys apparently have some anecdotal evidence of it. When you see it as such an clearly inferior style it's easier to dismiss people's enjoyment of it and call it elitist, but I'm watching that Kushida match and marking out because he integrated the spider guard into a pro-wrestling setting, while to you guys that doesn't mean anything and why would it if you don't already have an interest in grappling real or fake. There was a lot more going on in that match than the two guys on a podcast quickly giving their thoughts review would lead you to believe, and that applies to all the Hideki and Thatcher stuff and whatnot. I'm basically just saying believe it or not, if you were more into grappling you'd be more into grappling. I'm sure that's patently obvious to you guys but you were Mean To My Wrestling so I'm writing a message board post about it.

I'm also being a total hypocrite here because last week I dismissed the Rollins love as a nefarious reasons kind of thing. We're probably all subconscious elitists in some form or another.

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Re: VOW Flagship: BOSJ, MLW/ROH TV, Squirrel Meat & more!

Post by suplexberry » Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:28 am

There's no way to logic anybody into liking something, because most of the time our enjoyment comes first and the reasoning for why we like something comes a posteriori (I think using that term should qualify me for the wrestling intelligentsia membership). So take the following as more of an explanation on why I personally loved Sho vs Kushida, not an argument as to why you should like it:

To me this was exactly the kind of match these two should have, based on their histories, characters and present paths. I love that in NJPW shoot backgrounds and influences are still allowed to play a big part in somebody's style, and I personally saw a lot of similarities between this match and the NJPW of olde, where submissions and groundwork were important. Sho is a shoot grappler, has some MMA-training and KUSHIDA visits every BJJ gym he can find during his travels. Sho looks up to Kushi, but also wants to surpass him. So based on all these factors, this style of match makes perfect sense. It just clicked with me in terms of context, character and also content.

Where I will critique this match is that there were points where the grappling came off as showmanship, which IMO it should never do. When it was like that on Kushi's side, it made sense for the veteran hand to show off how far beneath Sho's level of talent is when compared to his. But when the grappling lacked an imminent sense of danger, and moves were shaken off too easy, didn't look painfully applied enough, the match suffered as result. In order for this style to work, the danger needs to be there at all times.

As a recent fan of a lot of the older shoot style I saw a lot of similarities between this match and that style, and honestly a part of me lost interest when they went into the closing stretch and started doing more powerful moves, forearms and all that. A great part of the appeal of shoot style, especially from those UWF/Newborn UWF days, was that a Boston crab could finish a match, just as much as a German suplex could, or a kick to the head could.

Anyway, I'm still playing catch up with BOSJ so I won't call it my favorite match of the tournament but I did absolutely love it.

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